0
raymond_jones

standing in landing areas

Recommended Posts

I was wondering what the general publics opinions are about ppl standing in the landing areas. (skydivers, spectators, ect.) The example for this question: at eloy this past weekend they were doing 100 way formation skydives, and during a regular load (tandems & up jumpers canopy decent, there were 100 or so ppl standing in the landing area with their rigs on doing a last munite dirt dive. obviously there were several areas that would have made better places to practice. several skydivers decided to abort their approaches and land in a different area, as to not cause an incident.
so...... the question is: who is in the right or who is in the wrong?
"your the shit till you eat it !!!!!!!! damn that wall hurts..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you hit someone in a designated landing area, you F'd up. You should be able to see and avoid.

If you are standing in a designated landing area for no reason and you get hit, you deserve it. Thats why they call it a landing area not a standing area you idiot.

I don't want anyone to get hurt but perhaps a little pain would clear out the landing area next time.

Standing on a runway and getting run over by an airplane is the same thing.
HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let's see . . . 100 people on an organized skydive doing something with the tacit approval of management or a person landing that certainly ought to be able to see and avoid something as large as a group of 100 people.

Yeah, that's pretty difficult to figure out isn't it?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
True!

But why the LZ? Why not the parking lot or any other number of places. I've never been to the DZ so dont know if there is another place that could hold 100 ppl on a dirt dive, but it seems like lack of respect for the jumpers on the way down to put 100 obstacles on the LZ?

What about that new jumper just off student status? (they have enough to worry about without a preventable obstacle in the LZ)

What about that "swooper" who jumps for that reason alone (selfish to take that away from them)

We keep talking about making DZ's safer (with regards to landings), but we are ok with putting 100 ppl in the middle of an LZ and just expect the jumpers coming in to either land off (which is BS) or dodge ppl in the way.

Again, I'm not sure of the real estate at the DZ so this might actually be the only place to dirt dive a 100 way and we wouldnt want to be the selfish ones and take that away from them either.

just curious....
SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Let's see . . . 100 people on an organized skydive doing something with the tacit approval of management or a person landing that certainly ought to be able to see and avoid something as large as a group of 100 people.

Yeah, that's pretty difficult to figure out isn't it?



No, it's not right. The landing area is just that.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IMHO it is "not cool" to the jumpers to have a 100 way dirtdive on a landing area.

In this particular case, the DZ has 3 landing areas, 1 of them for swooping only. So swoopers would not be disturbed, and the second landing area would be practicable (but you have to walk 100 yards more, which is not acceptable for so called athletes[:/]).

100 people on a LZ would NOT be a surprise unless the jumpers check the LZ 50ft above it...
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Let's see . . . 100 people on an organized skydive doing something with the tacit approval of management or a person landing that certainly ought to be able to see and avoid something as large as a group of 100 people.

Yeah, that's pretty difficult to figure out isn't it?



No, it's not right. The landing area is just that.



If you were talking about 100 random people that suddenly just decided to walk out onto the grass and mill around, I would agree with you completely.

However, and JP you certainly ought to know this, no 100-way ever happens at a DZ without management knowing about it.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that the organizers of the event would have simply dragged it over to the grass without approval of the drop zone. This is Eloy we're talking about here. Gimme a break.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well now knowing the layout of the DZ, I agree....these 100 jumpers should have given the same respect they want when they jump and dirt dive somewhere else.
SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Let's see . . . 100 people on an organized skydive doing something with the tacit approval of management or a person landing that certainly ought to be able to see and avoid something as large as a group of 100 people.

Yeah, that's pretty difficult to figure out isn't it?



No, it's not right. The landing area is just that.



I will agree with JP 100%. Having a large group use the main landing area as their private dirt dive spot is asinine. PARTICULARLY when there are better-suited spots available about 200 feet away (and even closer to the boarding area). Hell, at our last event here at Z-hills they even allowed the RW bigway organizer to put up a circus tent in the main landing area! It's my opinion that this practice is permitted solely for the purpose of supporting the spectacle of the event. To make it somehow even more grand. That's fine and dandy sometimes, but it does not work at all when you have ANOTHER group of 70 people running a SEPARATE event on the same dropzone at the same time like we had a couple of months ago. Never mind the other fun jumpers on the DZ. We routinly had to land multi-plane formation loads around this other group who would not move out of the way when we were under canopy. Conversely, our group was told to get the hell out of the way when we were doing walk-outs in the same area and the other group was opening up. The problem was only exacerbated when more than half of the 160 people on the RW load would funnel themselves into this tiny little area left between the stupid circus tent and the hangar. So much for landing in designated quadrants.....

Yes, I took it up with management.

Chuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep, you were right to take it up with management, but I think that for some reason a lot of folks on this thread are misplacing their anger at who might be to "blame" for all these folks being where they want to be.

Chuck, quick question . . . where is the "landing area" of any drop zone?

Ah hell, I'll give ya the answer . . . where ever the DZO says it is.

If management wants to close off sections of their DZ for an event or use it for another purpose, don't freekin' blame the people attending the event.

I could just as easily cite examples of what I believe are uses of drop zones that don't exactly fit with the way I normally fly my canopy, but it's certainly NOT the fault of the jumpers.

I also want to point out that it might not even really be the fault of the management team at the DZ. Hell, all they're trying to do is make the freekin' event work with the resources they have at their disposal.

Any skydiver that thinks they have a god given right to a certain piece of land at a DZ needs to see the bigger picture of what's going on, then STFU and deal with it. This might include just leaving the DZ for the day.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see your point with the DZO being the one to blame and not the individual jumpers.

My opinion stills stands as it being wrong though.
SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Quote

Let's see . . . 100 people on an organized skydive doing something with the tacit approval of management or a person landing that certainly ought to be able to see and avoid something as large as a group of 100 people.

Yeah, that's pretty difficult to figure out isn't it?



No, it's not right. The landing area is just that.



I will agree with JP 100%. Having a large group use the main landing area as their private dirt dive spot is asinine. PARTICULARLY when there are better-suited spots available about 200 feet away (and even closer to the boarding area). Hell, at our last event here at Z-hills they even allowed the RW bigway organizer to put up a circus tent in the main landing area! It's my opinion that this practice is permitted solely for the purpose of supporting the spectacle of the event. To make it somehow even more grand. That's fine and dandy sometimes, but it does not work at all when you have ANOTHER group of 70 people running a SEPARATE event on the same dropzone at the same time like we had a couple of months ago. Never mind the other fun jumpers on the DZ. We routinly had to land multi-plane formation loads around this other group who would not move out of the way when we were under canopy. Conversely, our group was told to get the hell out of the way when we were doing walk-outs in the same area and the other group was opening up. The problem was only exacerbated when more than half of the 160 people on the RW load would funnel themselves into this tiny little area left between the stupid circus tent and the hangar. So much for landing in designated quadrants.....

Yes, I took it up with management.

Chuck



Come on - Z Hills has many hundreds of acres of landing area. The big-way dirt dive occupied maybe 1/2 acre altogether, with the full consent of the manager. The complainers just didn't like walking an extra 50 yards.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Well now knowing the layout of the DZ, I agree....these 100 jumpers should have given the same respect they want when they jump and dirt dive somewhere else.



Where would you suggest?

Would you like to lie down on your belly on an asphalt parking lot in Arizona in May?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

several skydivers decided to abort their approaches and land in a different area, as to not cause an incident.



Good move. Personally, I kind of wonder about the guy who landed in between the mock up plane line ups after a swoop.

The 94way dirt dives took about 1/8 or less of the main landing area. As Paul said, with support of the DZ management. If you (not you specifically, but generally) cant land in an area with 1/8 of it busy, you should really work on your landing skills, or land elsewhere.

Quote

obviously there were several areas that would have made better places to practice.



Such as?
Remster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Such as?



Walk out of manifest and turn left.. in that area where you board the tram to get out to the loading area. Unless there was a lot of airplane traffic over there. I assume thats where Chuck was talking about when he said 200 feet away and closer to loading the plane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How about the grass area between the pool & the bar? Or the hanger they used for the 300 way?
I know that on monday some lower number jumpers were down there. They are not used to that DZ, they are not used to the landing patterns or areas. Why would a DZ that is VERY concerned about canopy colisions add an obstical that could cause added confusion in the pattern?
----------------------------------------------
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>It's my opinion that this practice is permitted solely for the purpose
>of supporting the spectacle of the event. To make it somehow even more
>grand.

In general I've found it's to support the convenience of the event, make it cheaper and faster. Sure, they could rent tarps, clear a space in the desert and have everyone go out there. It's just plain easier to do it in the landing area - especially on days where most of the people who are going to use that landing area are on the dive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Why not the parking lot or any other number of places.



Have you ever seen how skydivers drive.



I drive safe. It's the other people I'm worried about. :o

Then again, we all make mistakes. I have.
Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Spectators should definitely be banned from the landing area. For example, we have a six foot tall fence, a ditch and a bunch of signs separating our spectator area from our landing area at Pitt Meadows.



I don't necessarily agree that you should ban spectators on the LZ. What if a few photographers want to get some good photos? If there is a huge 100-way coming in then sure that might be an exception, but completely ban it? No way.

You should have to ask permission to be out there, definitely.
Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0