standing in landing areas

[Remster 24]

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Such as?

Walk out of manifest and turn left.. in that area where you board the tram to get out to the loading area. Unless there was a lot of airplane traffic over there. I assume thats where Chuck was talking about when he said 200 feet away and closer to loading the plane.

You mean around the plane staging area where the planes come in with spinning props to get fuel?

Remster

[chaoskitty 0]

I dont know.. last time I was there, I was sick and people were dying all over the place. I remember the loading area for the tram being spacious and dont recall a lot of fueling going on but I'm certainly not arguing. You said "such as?", and I said "how about over there?". I'm 1500 miles away so I really have no opinion except I'd take my chances avoiding spinning props and the loud engines that preceed them, over being in the way of canopies.

Certainly if the 100 ways are going to use the main landing area to dirt dive then the loads going up during that time should be told to use the alternate landing area. Cant see anyone having a problem with that. The main landing area was closed to canopy traffic twice last time I was there.

[raymond_jones 0]

i think if manifest or even the leaders of the big way attempts would have let other jumpers know that they would be conducting their big way dirt dives there and when they were doing them then the place was great. unfortunily that didn't happen, if a group of jumpers go up, jump, open up, and during their pattern 100 ppl go and are on the landing area, without prior warning or heads up to the jumpers already i the air, then i think that is an issue that should be corrected at future events. Also there are multible areas that the dirt dives could have been conducted.

im no event organizer by any means, but I was a L.R.S. team leader in the military and do know how to plan for things.

on a side note, i was more than happy to land in the alt landing area and walk back. and continued to land there because it was safer. and yes I was more than capable of landing around the dirt dive, but why take a chance, cause no matter how capable you are "shit happens" I just think that next time a little "common curtosy" would be nice.

"your the shit till you eat it !!!!!!!! damn that wall hurts..."

[stratostar 5]

While I can understand your points, I think your blowing it into a much bigger issue then is needed. While at Perris a week and a half ago they were doing 100 ways and DDing in the LZ, it was broadcast across the dz via the PA so unless your Billy Vance it would be kinda hard to not know, and even if your on the plane, I don't see what is so hard about looking down and seeing 100 asshats DDing in the LZ and finding another place to set down??? Like I said not that big of a deal and besides that it is good pratice for ya, cuz as you said yourself SHIT HAPPENS!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[raymond_jones 0]

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While I can understand your points, I think your blowing it into a much bigger issue then is needed. While at Perris a week and a half ago they were doing 100 ways and DDing in the LZ, it was broadcast across the dz via the PA so unless your Billy Vance it would be kinda hard to not know, and even if your on the plane, I don't see what is so hard about looking down and seeing 100 asshats DDing in the LZ and finding another place to set down??? Like I said not that big of a deal and besides that it is good pratice for ya, cuz as you said yourself SHIT HAPPENS!

if suggesting that when you are manifesting for a load the manifestor warns you that there is going to be a 100 ppl on the landing area doing a dirt dive and making the event even safer as well as giving fellow jumpers a courtisy heads up is blowing it out of proportion. then i don't know what to say. except at this point in this years "incident total" i think any saftey measures that could be taken should be, and should be discussed amongst jumpers.

"your the shit till you eat it !!!!!!!! damn that wall hurts..."

[stratostar 5]

Well how the hell do we know you just didn't have your head up your ass and miss the anouncement over the PA or maybe they had already done 2 DD's that day and the manifest thought it was already clear to everyone what the hell was going on. Maybe manifest wasn't told by head asshat they were going to do that and there for you wern't warned.

Maybe if you can't handle the surprises that can and do happen under canopy you should think about finding another sport or maybe better, stay at a small 182 dz so you won't have to find 100 asshats in the LZ DDing. It is really not any diff then landing out cuz the spot sucked, like you said shit happends now quit your crying already and shut up and go jump or tee off!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[AndyMan 7]

The landing area is for landing.

If a DZ wants to close a landing area, they're free to do that. It is, after all - their landing area.

That said, I would hope that everyone on the DZ would be clearly briefed beforehand, through reminders being issued in the loading area, or announcements were made over the PA.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[raymond_jones 0]

i guess you don't know if i had my head up my ass or not. and maybe me and the other 6 ppl I went there missed all the announcements too. statistically i doubt that.

and maybe your right, maybe i should go to small dz's, they are having a better track record this year. or maybe golf would be a much better hobby. but im more inclined to think that a wise man once lied to you, and your thinking in a delusional world.

thanks for the insite from jumpers I RESPECT like chuck, wild bill, and the beefers, as well as many others that posted. we might not all agree but thats the internet.

"your the shit till you eat it !!!!!!!! damn that wall hurts..."

[stratostar 5]

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but im more inclined to think that a wise man once lied to you, and your thinking in a delusional world.

That maybe true, but last time I looked it was still a bigass wide open desert with plenty of outs to be had if one were to start looking after deployment!

Go land in the parking lot, it's good pratice, or swoop the shit out of um and go hay WTF are you assholes doing in the LZ DDing, or tee off.

Still not as big of a deal as you make it out to be!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I don't necessarily agree that you should ban spectators on the LZ. What if a few photographers want to get some good photos? If there is a huge 100-way coming in then sure that might be an exception, but completely ban it? No way.

You should have to ask permission to be out there, definitely.

Well, most spectators have not signed the waiver. You could have them sign it but guaranteed some will slip through the cracks. Even if they have signed a waiver they have not undergone any training in the specific character of the dangers.
OTOH I have escorted a professional cameraman onto the field for a TV shot. In that case I had no other duties than to take care of one individual. In general I think it is a poor practice.

[raymond_jones 0]

toshay!!!!! landing in parking lots, swooping the crowd/other objects, and pissing off 100 ppl by yelling jibberish at them, would definatly solve the problem. you should have a seminar during the next safety day because thats exactly what every jumper should aspire to do. (im being sarcastic of course.)

off course there are many outs in the desert, thats a given. but at 500-1000 ft. a hord of ppl walk out and stand in the landing area the outs get smaller and smaller. but acording to your thinking I should have started blowing into my canopy in attempts to fly 3 miles in the opposite direction, or dodge cars coming in and out of the parking lot, or basically break all their rules bust a 270' swoop through a dirt dive and commence swearing at them. im sure you don't make these suggestions to your students, but you offer them for even a greater audience to view...... Congrats!!! you just earned a darwin award. im glad you were being sarcastic, you can swoop my car any day!!!!

"your the shit till you eat it !!!!!!!! damn that wall hurts..."

[stratostar 5]

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im being sarcastic of course.)

So was I....

As I told you before I agree they should have told you, but still it is a easy place to find open ground to land in and remain safe to you as long as you don't step on a rattle snake or punch a cactus.

But landing in the parking lot is good pratice, you never know when you might need too one day.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[FallingDuck 0]

If people on your load are in the landing area you should be able to avoid them. Everywhere I jump the landing area is for landing only. A spectator can go out into it once everyone on the load is down. Any dirt diving should be done someplace ells.

[stratostar 5]

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Any dirt diving should be done someplace ells.

Even though I was being a smartass to Raymond, the one thing I haven't seen anyone say or think of yet is....Maybe the 100 ways were not only dirt diving the skydive and break off but the landing as well and this is why they were in the LZ, as well as the fact that there was the needed room for them to DD.

If anyone don't understand all that, then go the next 100 way event as see for yourself what all is involved with a skydive of that size, it is a hell of a plan and takes everyone to be on the same page, if they want to DD in the LZ, let um do it and land else where or sit on the porch and just watch.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[kallend 1,622]

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If people on your load are in the landing area you should be able to avoid them. Everywhere I jump the landing area is for landing only. A spectator can go out into it once everyone on the load is down. Any dirt diving should be done someplace ells.

Even a 100 way takes up relatively little space in a dirt dive. If you can't land in the other 95% of the available landing area, the solution is obvious.

100 ways don't happen spontaneously. Every one I've been on has been advertized way in advance, and dirt dived in the LZ. If you don't like that, go elsewhere on that weekend.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sagan 0]

Of interest may be that Perris now has a new "policy" that once you land you must clear the landing area immediately before stowing brakes and such. (This is for the grass landing area apparently) The idea is, land on grass, grab your stuff, step to the side of the grass -- deal with stuff there. This is apparently pretty new and I don't think has been officially announced on the PA, writing, etc and instead is just word of mouth among regulars and the LO's. For that reason please don't flame the post as that's what I've been told the policy is, if something is not accurate please correct. The idea makes sense if you ask me...

As for the 100 ways dirt diving those are pretty obvious from up high. What's less obvious are things like simultaneous parallel jump runs when the people in the front of the plane "forget" to relay that bit of info to the people in back -- sorry off topic

-Patrick

[quade 3]

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The idea is, land on grass, grab your stuff, step to the side of the grass -- deal with stuff there.

That's actually the way Jim Wallace, one of the S&TAs, has been telling people to do stuff for a long time. The idea is to at least get the hell out of the -middle- of the landing area and leave that space open for the tandem ops as well as giving everyone a fair shot at a clear space for their normal landings. It makes no sense whatsoever to be standing in the -middle- of the landing area stowing your brakes for at least TWO reasons;

1) You're in the way.
2) If you're stowing your brakes, you're probably not looking out for incoming traffic.

I'm not sure it's an official rule yet, but it's a damn good idea anyway.

If you have the accuracy and traffic allows you the opportunity to do so, land so that your canopy doesn't need to be dragged too far to get it out of the way. Land, pull it down and then off to the side. Stow your gear on the edges of the grass. (I don't think anybody is suggesting you have to actually drag it into the dirt.)

All of that said, this has not a lot to do with the situation as described in the orginal post.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ltdiver 3]

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I'm not sure it's an official rule yet, but it's a damn good idea anyway.

It's currently official for both the schools at Perris. Not sure if it has been implemented for the rest of the DZ yet, but it's in the works.

The policy makes alot of sense.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon