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autoset

Skydiving with Military boots VS Hangwags

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I think I need some ankle protection, my landings have been a little rough lately and I was thinking about jumping with my good ol' army boots but I'm worried they may affect my ability to track or freefly in general? I really don't know.

I've heard good things about the Hangwags too, but it looks to me that both the boots and the hangwags pretty much protect the ankle in the same way. Don't know why but the hangwag look a lot bulkier (heavier??) to me for some reason.

Need your opinion plz. Pics attached.

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For ankle protection I'm jumping with active ankle and regular comfy sport shoes.

www.activeankle.com

or if you want to be snag points free

http://www.orthoticsandbeyond.com/p-23-aircast-airsport-ankle-brace.aspx

Some regular boots have snag points and add some restriction to your ankle movement (if you land without wind you need to run a bit) but if you really, really want boots take a look at those paragliding boots:
http://www.flyaboveall.com/highflyboots.htm
Keep in mind that they have snag points even if they say, and I quote:
Unique shock cord closure - no line snagging.

I've personally tried all those 3 products and choose active ankle in the end.

Might want to check it with your instructors before buying something.
Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

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My Hangwags are the dogs bollox... best boots that I have ever owned!! Bit too stiff for comfortable all day walking but I'll live with that for the excellen ankle support (I have weak ankles and twist them v. easily). (I use then for walking and paragliding).

Personally, I wont skydive ion them (not anywhere near flexible enought) - for that I use Mc David ankle braces under my trainers (sneakers).Try these

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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I have reconsidered using boots for skydiving despite them being excellent for ankle support, I just watched a couple of malfunction videos on skydivingmovies with some jumpers getting their lines caught with their foot and the only reason they came out alive is because they were able to remove the shoe easily in free-fall, if they had been wearing boots that would of been impossible and deploying your reserve while on your back and the lines of your main caught on your foot....well your chances of survival would of been lower for sure.

I think I will stick to jumping with tennis shoes and a good ankle brace not connected to the shoe. Pic attached, what do you think of this brace?

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A colleague of mine who does R&D for various types of footwear says that the majority of ankle support does not come from the upper of a boot - it comes from the stability of the footbed. That's why trail running shoes are built as they are. This defies conventional wisdom, but it makes complete sense.
Arrive Safely

John

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If you are jumping in boots you might want to take some duct tape and give a wrap around the snag points. It's not that stylish or practical for a whole day's jumping, but it's a helluva lot better then getting a line stuck in there.
I got nuthin

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I have horrible ankles.

Hangwag's are fine if you're not walking around too much. They just don't breath worth a damn.

After 16 years of military jumping, skydiving, and more recently BASE, my favorites are $20 Wal-Mart hiking boots (that's what I'm wearing in the avitar). Sinch the laces around the ankle and they work great.

Spend the $200 you save on skydives.
- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

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For ankle protection I'm jumping with active ankle



It might be a good idea to look into using another ankle support device. That active ankle looks a lot like what was briefly used in the military called the PAB( parachutist ankle brace). While initial studies showed it reduced the number of ankle related injuries there was an increase in the number of tib/fib breaks and other lower leg injuries due to the device placing the stress further up the leg once it was being used in the field by more troops. The PAB is no longer used for this reason. The active ankle may be excellent for ground based activities but its similarities to the PAB may produce similar results if you ever land wrong while skydiving, which is a concern.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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I have reconsidered using boots for skydiving despite them being excellent for ankle support, I just watched a couple of malfunction videos on skydivingmovies with some jumpers getting their lines caught with their foot and the only reason they came out alive is because they were able to remove the shoe easily in free-fall, if they had been wearing boots that would of been impossible and deploying your reserve while on your back and the lines of your main caught on your foot....well your chances of survival would of been lower for sure.

I think I will stick to jumping with tennis shoes and a good ankle brace not connected to the shoe. Pic attached, what do you think of this brace?



Hi autoset,

If the ankle brace is made of only fabric and velcro and no structural reinforcement it acts only as an external muscle. Basically it just takes the effort out of the ligaments. It's good if you have bad ligaments and/or atrophied muscles in the ankle but they give little structural support in case of a big shock such as hard landing.

I use that type of ankle brace when I go to the gym or running or play with my longboard. My ankle muscles are not 100% recovered after my accident and that brace really makes a diff in all the day to day sport activities that doesn't involve jumping.

When I'm prime to bigger ankle shock I use active ankle that acts as external muscle and has structural reinforcements (that starts from the bottom of the shoe) that can help absorbing an unwanted shock from a hard landing.

I'll suggest you to add your instructor and your doctor into the loop so you can find suitable solution from booths sides (it has to be air worthy and to fit your medicals needs). When you find a solution share it with us.

Cheers,
Jean-Arthur Deda.
Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

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For ankle protection I'm jumping with active ankle



It might be a good idea to look into using another ankle support device. That active ankle looks a lot like what was briefly used in the military called the PAB( parachutist ankle brace). While initial studies showed it reduced the number of ankle related injuries there was an increase in the number of tib/fib breaks and other lower leg injuries due to the device placing the stress further up the leg once it was being used in the field by more troops. The PAB is no longer used for this reason. The active ankle may be excellent for ground based activities but its similarities to the PAB may produce similar results if you ever land wrong while skydiving, which is a concern.



Hey Lou,

Thanks for the warning, I'll keep my mind opened to any other solutions out there.

If I understood right what you were saying is that with that type of ankle brace the tib/fib have more chance to break from the middle of the bone.

If that's the case I was aware of it and it's the same thing with having boots.

When I spoke with my doctor he told me that usually fractures that are not close to the joints are more easily to recover from and they tend more to be open fractures.

In a perfect situation the bone can bend a lot before actually breaking. The bending of the bone absorbs the shock. If the bone it's only bending and not breaking in the worse case scenario you get only some micro-fractures. Just like you said it if you restrict the bending of the bone, it will break more easily. The section area of the bone varies and if the pressure point is focused on a small area part of the bone the bending process will be bypassed. That is the case with the tib/fib. Tib/fib have more chance to break close to the ankle joint and that adds a hard recovery (ligaments affected by operation&hardware + losing some range in the ankle, you know, the whole 9 yards). Also I still have the stainless-steel inside the ankle and the holes in the bone act like tension points that will shatter the bone if the shock is big enough. For me, today, my tib/fib bones can safely absorb less shock than 1 year ago. No structural ankle bracelets absorb just a little bit of shock so I've chose a structural ankle bracelet that allows me to have pitch mobility and restrict more the roll/yaw rotations.

Those are the reasons why I've chose the structural ankle support. Is it the best solution to my problem? I don't know for sure..... If anybody else cares to share other solutions that they are using I'll be look into them for sure.

Blue skies,
Jean-Arthur Deda.
Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!

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They aren't cheap, but check out Adidas GSG-9 boots.

They are a high top boot which is still fairly flexible, and light weight. They are lace up boots without the snag points many others have. I use them most of the time and find them to be excellent for the task.

YMMV

Russ

Generally, it is your choice; will your life serve as an example... or a warning?

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They aren't cheap, but check out Adidas GSG-9 boots



The Adidas GSG-9 boots are both expensive and a crap boot. They offer no ankle support which is what the OP is looking for and they fall apart/wear out extremely fast. Had they not been issued to me at work, I would have never worn them as all they are is a glorified pair of tennis shoes with a ridiculous price tag. Any of the Hi-tech/ Oakley/assault boots on the market today offer better support at a far cheaper price and do not have hooks or snag points.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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I'd want a pair of boots that have a low wide heel. I know smoke-jumpers who jump in White boots with a high narrow heel, and I have to wonder how they keep from twisting their ankles.

A light pair of leather boots with low heel might be a good choice. Pick some without snag pts. (or use duck tape). Lace them tight. (This will make a big difference in terms of ankle support). I know of some people who wrap their ankles under their boots when they need extra ankle support.

I wouldn't go overboard on picking boots that are too heavy duty. They may be too stiff for running out a landing.

Boots with canvas sides may not offer much ankle support. We always had to use leather boots when jumping in the army. They wouldn't allow jungle boots.

Some jumps, I still miss my old French jump boots from the old days. They were great for absorbing a lot of shock on your feet and ankles. I suspect they wouldn't be good for running out a landing though. I plan to use them this summer for jumping a para-commander.

For a few years they made a style model of French jump boot. The sole was a lot thinner though than the regular model, and again they are probably heavier duty than you need....Steve1

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With today's canopies, if you're landing hard enough to hurt your ankles, I would say its your canopy skills that are lacking, not your footwear.



There's always one.

It's a simple fact that we land hard sometimes.

When I needed ankle support I bought a Swed-o lace up ankle brace. Something like this. It helped out a lot. I would would have been out for much longer without it.

Good luck
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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I would avoid any boot with a raised heal.
Last year I watched a guy come in on a fast downwind landing and as he slid along the grass his heal on his military boots caught and snapped his tib/fib.

I like these a lot:

http://gravisfootwear.com/products/product.aspx?productID=48050&shortMaterialNumber=G8056102&categoryID=4800&subcategoryID=4801

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There's always one.

It's a simple fact that we land hard sometimes.



And there is always one that points out the other. Its true we may occasionally land hard sometimes but if it is a regular occurrence . . ."my landings have been a little rough lately". . .they just might be doing something wrong.

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Army boots provide little ankle support.
Hint: Army paratroopers spend one percent of their time parachuting and the other 99 percent of their time walking. Boots stiff enough to prevent ankle injuries soon cause tendonitis.

Similarly, Hanwags may be great for landing on talus, but are too stiff for walking around the DZ all day.

The various strap-on ankle supports are at best short-term solutions.

The only long-term solution involves finding a physiotherapist who can teach you exercises to strengthen your ankle muscles. In the long run, stronger muscles breed stronger bones.
Hint: my physiotherapist taught me to tie a bicycle inner tube to a table leg, and pull on it from various angles to strengthen the various muscles in my weak ankle.

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I've used both Hanwag para-gliding boots and U.S. Army jump boots for BASE jumping and some skydives. After 175 BASE jumps and maybe around 100 skydives using a BASE canopy, boots, and other protective gear I'd say that the Hanwag boots are vastly better than army jump boots. When the Hanwag boots are new they are very stiff, but once they've broken in they're great. The trick is to wear them around for a week or so before you use them for something critical.

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I am pretty sure you haven't used Army jump boots for BASE jumping. These are what we consider jump boots in the Army and they are usually worn with the Class A uniform or on special occassions, as they are generally very uncomfortable. I am assuming you are refering to the old leather combat boots?
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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