Amanduh 0 #1 October 13, 2004 I was trained to PLF. I am just curious because just the other day I was coming in to land, and then for no reason at all I somehow managed to think I was landing the wrong direction and did a braked turn 180 degrees back around and landed downwind (in 10 mph). I was able to stand it up, but later others asked if I had PLF'ed? I told them no, I was able to stand it up (I'm wingloading right at 1.15) I had to run it out like crazy, but a few others said maybe next time just try to slide in on my butt instead. I'm just curious as to what most of you think is the best way to handle this situation IF you happen to find yourself in it. (I will state this: I do NOT know what or why I thought I was landing wrong in the first place. Not until after I turned around and the winds picked back up and started gusting a little did I realize how fast I was hauling ass across the ground. I had been watching other canopy's and there were some people doing hp landings, which could have confused me ?? I honestly don't know... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #2 October 13, 2004 Whether you slide or PLF, the most important thing to remember when landing downwind is that you still need to flare at the same, correct height. Flaring high and thinking it's going to slow you down is incredibly common, but it's the absolute worst thing you can do. The bottom line here is this: in order for you to safely land a parachute you must either cancel your vertical descent at the time of touchdown; the horizontal speed at the time of touchdown; or both. Flaring at the correct altitude on a downwind landing cancels your vertical descent, but can, obviously, never cancel your forward speed; you can never cancel out that tailwind. Personally, I am more in favor of sliding landings when the ground is smooth and PLF's when the landing area is uneven. Chuck AFF/SL/TM-I, BMCI, PRO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Docspidey 0 #3 October 13, 2004 As someone who experienced an L1 fracture from landing on my butt, I would advocate PLF every possible opportunity before slide, unless slide is necessary from a personal injury point of view (ie, upper body injury and need to avoid banging it around in a plf). Of course, if done right, both should save you, but a hard landing on your butt can have disasterous consequences. I haven't jumped in 4 months, and can't for another 6--8 or so, at least. *sigh* Oh well, better then paralysis!~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~ "Chance favors the prepared mind." -Anon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMO 0 #4 October 13, 2004 The slide is an easy way to land when you have greatly reduced your vertical speed and are only left with horizontal speed, this would be a good swoop landing. The PLF is a safe way to land when you need to dissipate vertical energy from a landing and in most cases horizontal speed is irrelevant though it does make a good PLF easier. So on a down wind landing when should you PLF and when should you slide? Slide only when the vertical decent rate of your canopy makes it safe to do so. For instance, if you know you could run the landing out if you weren’t going so fast you may want to slide it in instead. Now on your approach if you realize regardless of the forward speed there is no way you could stand the landing then PLF. Having started jumping in the Army Airborne I don’t have any difficulty cranking out a dynamic PLF and letting everyone laugh as I kick up a little dirt. Bottom line I’ve walked away from every ugly landing I’ve made. On a good down winder I’ll slide it in but I am also conscious of my vertical speed and the surface I’m landing on, if it’s unsafe to slide I’ll switch to the safer PLF. Basically the slide is an experienced technique much like the swoop landing. To safely slide you need to be able to quickly recognize your canopies rate of descent. If you are just starting out in the sport or are having difficulty with your landings then please stick with a proper PLF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #5 October 13, 2004 I am with Chuck on this one. Keep in mind that there is a difference (and many different ways) between a good slide and a strike with the ground. The flare is the important part to help with this. A strike to your tailbone can be bad. 2 common techniques are: slide as if you were sliding into home plate, and similar to a tandem where you slide on your feet and eventually down to your butt. The second option allows you to possibly stand up at the end if the speed slows enough. Both of these really need a smooth landing area to prevent catching a foot/leg and complicating the situation. I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #6 October 13, 2004 QuoteAs someone who experienced an L1 fracture from landing on my butt, I would advocate PLF every possible opportunity before slide, unless slide is necessary from a personal injury point of view (ie, upper body injury and need to avoid banging it around in a plf). Of course, if done right, both should save you, but a hard landing on your butt can have disasterous consequences. I haven't jumped in 4 months, and can't for another 6--8 or so, at least. *sigh* Oh well, better then paralysis! I believe jumpers have died of broken necks trying to PLF a fast downwinder. Sounds like you may have flared too high. See Skymokey's post. Ask any motorcyclist or ski racer the dangers of trying to stop too fast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #7 October 13, 2004 >I'm just curious as to what most of you think is the best way to handle >this situation IF you happen to find yourself in it. 1. Prepare for a PLF - feet and knees together, knees bent, body tweaked to one side. 2. Make sure your feet or calves hit first. 3. If you have high horizontal speed, hit with feet and calves, then fall onto your thigh, then keep on sliding. If you do it this way, you will end up sliding with your feet in front of you, ready to take any impacts. Things to avoid - Planting your feet hard and popping over onto your head. You can break your neck doing that. Landing on your coccyx. That's a tiny little bone that's not very strong, and your sacrum is right above it. And you definitely don't want to break your sacrum. This means don't land on your butt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #8 October 13, 2004 I broke my tailbone while trying to slide out a rear riser landing(broken steering lines). I would rather do a baseball slide on my leg or plf than experience that type of pain for months again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Docspidey 0 #9 October 13, 2004 Stupidly, my injury was from a ladder fall injury, but I still fear any force trauma to my spine or tailbone. Again, though, that's just me and my new found fear~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~ "Chance favors the prepared mind." -Anon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattjw916 2 #10 October 13, 2004 I tend to slide in automatically on my left outside thigh and hip... many years of motorcycling, hockey, and martial arts have built up a muscle memory that is hard to overcome (and sometimes ruins what should have been an otherwise graceful landing). If I was sinking from a too-high flare I would definately concentrate on PLF'ing. My $0.02.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #11 October 13, 2004 QuoteI'm just curious as to what most of you think is the best way to handle this situation... Upwind or downwind, if I'm moving too fast horizontally for my old legs to run-out the landing, then I'm going to do a butt-slide. It ain't pretty, but it keeps me from tumbling and breaking a leg. This assumes a normal grassy landing area. If I'm landing on something hard, rocky, etc., then I think I'd go to a PLF. If you're sinking straight down - PLF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlindBrick 0 #12 October 13, 2004 I don't have a lot of jumps but of those I do have a little over 92% of them ended in some form of PLF. So, I've had time to experiment and refine. If I find that I'm coming in with a lot of horizontal speed but little vetical, I'll flex my knees and bring my leg toether almost like a PLF except that they are not quite touching and my right foot is just a few inches ahead of the left. The flex in the knees allows me to absorb the vertical momentum while having my feet like they are lets me take one or two baby steps. As I take these steps, I let my forward momentum lay me over and use the energy from the steps to due a shoulder roll which puts me over on my back. Also during this time I am tucking my chin against my chest (very important). Once I am laying out flat, I lighly arch my upper body and balence myself on the rig (is easier than it sounds). This lets my rig absorb the force rather than me. I've also found that dragging my heels will reduce the skid and thus wear and tear on the rig. As you can probably figure this does run the risk of damaging the rig, but I've always figured better the rig than me. If you use this method, always be sure to do a quick visual inspection on the rig afterwards. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #13 October 13, 2004 Quoteyou still need to flare at the same, correct height. // The bottom line here is this: in order for you to safely land a parachute you must either cancel your vertical descent at the time of touchdown; the horizontal speed at the time of touchdown; or both. Flaring at the correct altitude on a downwind landing cancels your vertical descent, but can, obviously, never cancel your forward speed; you can never cancel out that tailwind. Personally, I am more in favor of sliding landings when the ground is smooth and PLF's when the landing area is uneven. My rules of thumb are quite like Senor Azul: 1) Smooth landing surface = flare at the normal height, ensuring a good finish, pick up the landing gear, and slide it in. Be careful about putting your hands down, and sit up as much as possible once you're on the ground to keep your rig out of the dirt & grass. I'd rather have to patch a jumpsuit than a container. 2) Rough or unknown landing surface (e.g. masked by tall grass) = flare at the normal height ensuring a good finish, and do a PLF. I do a lot of night jumps, and I follow a lot of airdrop bundles (landing out on purpose). I always used to try standing up whether I could see where my feet go or not. One day in Arizona, I followed a bundle into the desert, intending to call the pickup vehicle with my radio. I ran out the landing successfully in some mesquite bushes & desert grass, then saw as I was recovering my canopy that only three or four more steps would have sent one of my legs right down a gopher hole that had been dug out by a coyote. After that experience I always do a PLF if I can't see where my feet are going. In general, if I have a lot of vertical speed left over despite my flare, I do a PLF to dissipate the impact rather than absorb it all with my tail bone. With horizontal speed left over, I follow the rules above.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #14 October 14, 2004 If you slide, remember to take it on the meaty part of one thigh and butt cheek. Feet and knees together. Slight bend in the knees. Same set up as a PLF. Turn to the side to slide. Imagine the umpire shouting, "SAFE!". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amanduh 0 #15 October 14, 2004 Thanks to all of you. I did finish my flare and flew the canopy until the very end (until I had no choice!) The speed was not stopping. I had no more vertical speed though, I was just sailing right across the ground. Definetaly an eye opener for sure! Really got some good advice from all of you. THANKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #16 October 14, 2004 I would like to second what John said about watching out for your arms and hands on both slides and PLF's. The ONLY injury I have ever sustained in nearly 24 years of skydiving was breaking two knuckles on my index and middle finger of my right hand as I slid out a landing on uneven grass at Quincy in 2001. I had my hands out to steady me left and right as I was cruising along the ground and hit a divot (gopher hole actually). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #17 October 14, 2004 Prepare to PLF. If you find that once your feet make contact that you have more horizontal speed than decent rate roll over to your side and slide it in like a downed motorcycle rider, or a baseball player. If you start to tumble, go with it while protecting your head and keep your arms in...don't try to stop the roll, let it dissapate on it's own. Trying to stop it is a sure way to break something. The problem with PLANNING to slide is that if your decent rate is high you will hit hard and get hurt. If you plan to PLF you can adopt a slide, but not the other way around. Make no mistake a proper slide is NOT an easy to pull off landing. You have to have a near zero decent rate to avoid injury. A proper PLF will work in either situation...However, I doubt many jumpers know how to perform a correct PLF.....I didn't learn it till I spent three weeks at Uncle Sam's jump school. Keep your hands and arms tight, head down and protected. Talk with your instructor...Or a graduate of the Ft. Benning jump school....Better yet find an Instructor that has military jump wings. And have them teach you a proper PLF."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #18 October 15, 2004 Second that. If surface is smooth enough, slide. If it is not, PLF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites boozy 0 #19 October 16, 2004 I am a low-time jumper, and for my first downwind landing I just ran it out..wasn't exactly the best feeling on my ankles, but I managed. It was the first time I jumped a 190 also. which I load at about .95 so no big deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MNM604 0 #20 October 16, 2004 I have only made three AFF jumps, but for some reason have slid the landings on all three. I realize the problems with this, but for some reason, cannot get myself to trust the plf. Any suggestions on how to get over this?, I had a bit of a hard landing the other day and really dont like the soreness of it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChileRelleno 0 #21 November 4, 2004 I agree with most replies, slow horizontal with fast vertical = classic PLF. Fast horizontal with slow vertical = modified PLF/slide. However I myself find it preferable to fly the landing out as far as possible and runoff excess speed if my speed is acceptable. Can this be a recipe for bumps/bruises or worse? Yes, but life is full of risk and its a preference not a rule, when in doubt the gear/jumpsuit gets dirty. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,384 #22 November 4, 2004 >However I myself find it preferable to fly the landing out as far as > possible and runoff excess speed if my speed is acceptable. >Can this be a recipe for bumps/bruises or worse? It definitely can be. I've gotten hurt way more often trying to run out a bad landing than just taking the fall/slide. But if you can run it out, by all means do so. The trick is learning when you can do that and when it's dangerous to do so. And yes, it can be worse. We had a fatality at our DZ when a jumper tried to land a moderately loaded canopy downwind in light winds. He fell forward and broke his neck. So it's a good idea to learn when you can run it out and when you can't. It just takes time. Side note - I used to think that above a certain loading/wind condition there was just no way to get a good landing - that you either had to run really fast or just fall. Then I learned to land a canopy a little better, and after a while I was the one standing up downwind landings under a 2 to 1 elliptical while people with Triathalon 160's were biffing. For me it took 4000 jumps to get there; a canopy training course is a much better way to learn than my trial and error method. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChileRelleno 0 #23 November 4, 2004 Quote>However I myself find it preferable to fly the landing out as far as > possible and runoff excess speed if my speed is acceptable. >Can this be a recipe for bumps/bruises or worse? It definitely can be. I've gotten hurt way more often trying to run out a bad landing than just taking the fall/slide. But if you can run it out, by all means do so. The trick is learning when you can do that and when it's dangerous to do so. And yes, it can be worse. We had a fatality at our DZ when a jumper tried to land a moderately loaded canopy downwind in light winds. He fell forward and broke his neck. So it's a good idea to learn when you can run it out and when you can't. It just takes time. Side note - I used to think that above a certain loading/wind condition there was just no way to get a good landing - that you either had to run really fast or just fall. Then I learned to land a canopy a little better, and after a while I was the one standing up downwind landings under a 2 to 1 elliptical while people with Triathalon 160's were biffing. For me it took 4000 jumps to get there; a canopy training course is a much better way to learn than my trial and error method. QuoteHowever I myself find it preferable to fly the landing out as far as possible and runoff excess speed if my speed is acceptable. Can this be a recipe for bumps/bruises or worse? Yes, but life is full of risk and its a preference not a rule, when in doubt the gear/jumpsuit gets dirty. Yep, well aware of the consequences and like I said, Quotewhen in doubt the gear/jumpsuit gets dirty. As in I resort to the modified PLF/slide. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LiveLifeGoJump 0 #24 November 4, 2004 I agree with most replies slow horizontal with fast vertical = classic PLF. Fast horizontal with slow vertical = modified PLF/slide. but bare this in mind. I slid out fast horizantal slow vertical speed landing (light wind and flared slightly low) in long grass & waterlogged ground. Ended up with a VERY wet bottom. Not a high price to pay for a painfree landing but 2 inches in front of my 'wedding tackle' was a rocking sticking 4 ins out of the ground. Getting more briefs on flaring for landing means I stand up more, PLF when I can't and avoid butt slides if posible. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites velvetjo 0 #25 November 4, 2004 Another effective slide method is to tuck one foot up under your butt to protect your tailbone. You can use this "drag" foot to have a better feel for the touchdown portion of the flare too, as it won't be your normal sight picture. I agree with everyone else about smooth surfaces - I wouldn't try this on lumpy terrain. Happy sliding. Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Docspidey 0 #9 October 13, 2004 Stupidly, my injury was from a ladder fall injury, but I still fear any force trauma to my spine or tailbone. Again, though, that's just me and my new found fear~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~ "Chance favors the prepared mind." -Anon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #10 October 13, 2004 I tend to slide in automatically on my left outside thigh and hip... many years of motorcycling, hockey, and martial arts have built up a muscle memory that is hard to overcome (and sometimes ruins what should have been an otherwise graceful landing). If I was sinking from a too-high flare I would definately concentrate on PLF'ing. My $0.02.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #11 October 13, 2004 QuoteI'm just curious as to what most of you think is the best way to handle this situation... Upwind or downwind, if I'm moving too fast horizontally for my old legs to run-out the landing, then I'm going to do a butt-slide. It ain't pretty, but it keeps me from tumbling and breaking a leg. This assumes a normal grassy landing area. If I'm landing on something hard, rocky, etc., then I think I'd go to a PLF. If you're sinking straight down - PLF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #12 October 13, 2004 I don't have a lot of jumps but of those I do have a little over 92% of them ended in some form of PLF. So, I've had time to experiment and refine. If I find that I'm coming in with a lot of horizontal speed but little vetical, I'll flex my knees and bring my leg toether almost like a PLF except that they are not quite touching and my right foot is just a few inches ahead of the left. The flex in the knees allows me to absorb the vertical momentum while having my feet like they are lets me take one or two baby steps. As I take these steps, I let my forward momentum lay me over and use the energy from the steps to due a shoulder roll which puts me over on my back. Also during this time I am tucking my chin against my chest (very important). Once I am laying out flat, I lighly arch my upper body and balence myself on the rig (is easier than it sounds). This lets my rig absorb the force rather than me. I've also found that dragging my heels will reduce the skid and thus wear and tear on the rig. As you can probably figure this does run the risk of damaging the rig, but I've always figured better the rig than me. If you use this method, always be sure to do a quick visual inspection on the rig afterwards. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #13 October 13, 2004 Quoteyou still need to flare at the same, correct height. // The bottom line here is this: in order for you to safely land a parachute you must either cancel your vertical descent at the time of touchdown; the horizontal speed at the time of touchdown; or both. Flaring at the correct altitude on a downwind landing cancels your vertical descent, but can, obviously, never cancel your forward speed; you can never cancel out that tailwind. Personally, I am more in favor of sliding landings when the ground is smooth and PLF's when the landing area is uneven. My rules of thumb are quite like Senor Azul: 1) Smooth landing surface = flare at the normal height, ensuring a good finish, pick up the landing gear, and slide it in. Be careful about putting your hands down, and sit up as much as possible once you're on the ground to keep your rig out of the dirt & grass. I'd rather have to patch a jumpsuit than a container. 2) Rough or unknown landing surface (e.g. masked by tall grass) = flare at the normal height ensuring a good finish, and do a PLF. I do a lot of night jumps, and I follow a lot of airdrop bundles (landing out on purpose). I always used to try standing up whether I could see where my feet go or not. One day in Arizona, I followed a bundle into the desert, intending to call the pickup vehicle with my radio. I ran out the landing successfully in some mesquite bushes & desert grass, then saw as I was recovering my canopy that only three or four more steps would have sent one of my legs right down a gopher hole that had been dug out by a coyote. After that experience I always do a PLF if I can't see where my feet are going. In general, if I have a lot of vertical speed left over despite my flare, I do a PLF to dissipate the impact rather than absorb it all with my tail bone. With horizontal speed left over, I follow the rules above.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #14 October 14, 2004 If you slide, remember to take it on the meaty part of one thigh and butt cheek. Feet and knees together. Slight bend in the knees. Same set up as a PLF. Turn to the side to slide. Imagine the umpire shouting, "SAFE!". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amanduh 0 #15 October 14, 2004 Thanks to all of you. I did finish my flare and flew the canopy until the very end (until I had no choice!) The speed was not stopping. I had no more vertical speed though, I was just sailing right across the ground. Definetaly an eye opener for sure! Really got some good advice from all of you. THANKS! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #16 October 14, 2004 I would like to second what John said about watching out for your arms and hands on both slides and PLF's. The ONLY injury I have ever sustained in nearly 24 years of skydiving was breaking two knuckles on my index and middle finger of my right hand as I slid out a landing on uneven grass at Quincy in 2001. I had my hands out to steady me left and right as I was cruising along the ground and hit a divot (gopher hole actually). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #17 October 14, 2004 Prepare to PLF. If you find that once your feet make contact that you have more horizontal speed than decent rate roll over to your side and slide it in like a downed motorcycle rider, or a baseball player. If you start to tumble, go with it while protecting your head and keep your arms in...don't try to stop the roll, let it dissapate on it's own. Trying to stop it is a sure way to break something. The problem with PLANNING to slide is that if your decent rate is high you will hit hard and get hurt. If you plan to PLF you can adopt a slide, but not the other way around. Make no mistake a proper slide is NOT an easy to pull off landing. You have to have a near zero decent rate to avoid injury. A proper PLF will work in either situation...However, I doubt many jumpers know how to perform a correct PLF.....I didn't learn it till I spent three weeks at Uncle Sam's jump school. Keep your hands and arms tight, head down and protected. Talk with your instructor...Or a graduate of the Ft. Benning jump school....Better yet find an Instructor that has military jump wings. And have them teach you a proper PLF."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancingFlame 0 #18 October 15, 2004 Second that. If surface is smooth enough, slide. If it is not, PLF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boozy 0 #19 October 16, 2004 I am a low-time jumper, and for my first downwind landing I just ran it out..wasn't exactly the best feeling on my ankles, but I managed. It was the first time I jumped a 190 also. which I load at about .95 so no big deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MNM604 0 #20 October 16, 2004 I have only made three AFF jumps, but for some reason have slid the landings on all three. I realize the problems with this, but for some reason, cannot get myself to trust the plf. Any suggestions on how to get over this?, I had a bit of a hard landing the other day and really dont like the soreness of it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #21 November 4, 2004 I agree with most replies, slow horizontal with fast vertical = classic PLF. Fast horizontal with slow vertical = modified PLF/slide. However I myself find it preferable to fly the landing out as far as possible and runoff excess speed if my speed is acceptable. Can this be a recipe for bumps/bruises or worse? Yes, but life is full of risk and its a preference not a rule, when in doubt the gear/jumpsuit gets dirty. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #22 November 4, 2004 >However I myself find it preferable to fly the landing out as far as > possible and runoff excess speed if my speed is acceptable. >Can this be a recipe for bumps/bruises or worse? It definitely can be. I've gotten hurt way more often trying to run out a bad landing than just taking the fall/slide. But if you can run it out, by all means do so. The trick is learning when you can do that and when it's dangerous to do so. And yes, it can be worse. We had a fatality at our DZ when a jumper tried to land a moderately loaded canopy downwind in light winds. He fell forward and broke his neck. So it's a good idea to learn when you can run it out and when you can't. It just takes time. Side note - I used to think that above a certain loading/wind condition there was just no way to get a good landing - that you either had to run really fast or just fall. Then I learned to land a canopy a little better, and after a while I was the one standing up downwind landings under a 2 to 1 elliptical while people with Triathalon 160's were biffing. For me it took 4000 jumps to get there; a canopy training course is a much better way to learn than my trial and error method. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #23 November 4, 2004 Quote>However I myself find it preferable to fly the landing out as far as > possible and runoff excess speed if my speed is acceptable. >Can this be a recipe for bumps/bruises or worse? It definitely can be. I've gotten hurt way more often trying to run out a bad landing than just taking the fall/slide. But if you can run it out, by all means do so. The trick is learning when you can do that and when it's dangerous to do so. And yes, it can be worse. We had a fatality at our DZ when a jumper tried to land a moderately loaded canopy downwind in light winds. He fell forward and broke his neck. So it's a good idea to learn when you can run it out and when you can't. It just takes time. Side note - I used to think that above a certain loading/wind condition there was just no way to get a good landing - that you either had to run really fast or just fall. Then I learned to land a canopy a little better, and after a while I was the one standing up downwind landings under a 2 to 1 elliptical while people with Triathalon 160's were biffing. For me it took 4000 jumps to get there; a canopy training course is a much better way to learn than my trial and error method. QuoteHowever I myself find it preferable to fly the landing out as far as possible and runoff excess speed if my speed is acceptable. Can this be a recipe for bumps/bruises or worse? Yes, but life is full of risk and its a preference not a rule, when in doubt the gear/jumpsuit gets dirty. Yep, well aware of the consequences and like I said, Quotewhen in doubt the gear/jumpsuit gets dirty. As in I resort to the modified PLF/slide. ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LiveLifeGoJump 0 #24 November 4, 2004 I agree with most replies slow horizontal with fast vertical = classic PLF. Fast horizontal with slow vertical = modified PLF/slide. but bare this in mind. I slid out fast horizantal slow vertical speed landing (light wind and flared slightly low) in long grass & waterlogged ground. Ended up with a VERY wet bottom. Not a high price to pay for a painfree landing but 2 inches in front of my 'wedding tackle' was a rocking sticking 4 ins out of the ground. Getting more briefs on flaring for landing means I stand up more, PLF when I can't and avoid butt slides if posible. Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velvetjo 0 #25 November 4, 2004 Another effective slide method is to tuck one foot up under your butt to protect your tailbone. You can use this "drag" foot to have a better feel for the touchdown portion of the flare too, as it won't be your normal sight picture. I agree with everyone else about smooth surfaces - I wouldn't try this on lumpy terrain. Happy sliding. Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
