darnknit 0
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An expert is someone widely recognized as a reliable source of knowledge, technique, or skill whose judgment is accorded authority and status by the public or their peers. Experts have prolonged or intense experience through practice and education in a particular field.
The opposite of an expert is generally known as a layperson, while someone who occupies a middle grade of understanding is generally known as a technician and often employed to assist experts. A person may well be an expert in one field and a layperson in many other fields. The concepts of experts and expertise is debated within the field of epistemology under the general heading of expert knowledge.
In specific fields, the definition of expert is well established by consensus and therefore it is not necessary for an individual to have a professional or academic qualification for them to be accepted as an expert. In this respect, a shepherd with 50 years of experience tending flocks would be widely recognized as having complete expertise in the use and training of sheep dogs and the care of sheep. Another example from computer science is that an expert system may be taught by a human and thereafter considered an expert often outperforming human beings at particular tasks. In law, an expert witness must be recognized by argument and authority.
The term is widely used informally, with people being described as 'experts' in order to bolster the relative value of their opinion, when no objective criteria for their expertise is available. The term crank is likewise used to disparage opinions. Academic elitism arises when 'experts' become convinced that only they understand their field of study (or anything at all).
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert"
Jump to: navigation, search
An expert is someone widely recognized as a reliable source of knowledge, technique, or skill whose judgment is accorded authority and status by the public or their peers. Experts have prolonged or intense experience through practice and education in a particular field.
The opposite of an expert is generally known as a layperson, while someone who occupies a middle grade of understanding is generally known as a technician and often employed to assist experts. A person may well be an expert in one field and a layperson in many other fields. The concepts of experts and expertise is debated within the field of epistemology under the general heading of expert knowledge.
In specific fields, the definition of expert is well established by consensus and therefore it is not necessary for an individual to have a professional or academic qualification for them to be accepted as an expert. In this respect, a shepherd with 50 years of experience tending flocks would be widely recognized as having complete expertise in the use and training of sheep dogs and the care of sheep. Another example from computer science is that an expert system may be taught by a human and thereafter considered an expert often outperforming human beings at particular tasks. In law, an expert witness must be recognized by argument and authority.
The term is widely used informally, with people being described as 'experts' in order to bolster the relative value of their opinion, when no objective criteria for their expertise is available. The term crank is likewise used to disparage opinions. Academic elitism arises when 'experts' become convinced that only they understand their field of study (or anything at all).
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert"
life is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!.
Dolph 0
QuoteQuoteFuck. You just turned me into a newbie...
I call BS on that one. You are into martial arts, travel...ect. You have more in your life than just jumping.
I'm a noob by that definition. Funny thing is I don't even feel it's sad. Of course, I'm a noob by two other definitions too; years in sport and jump numbers. There may very well be a correlation.
I'm open to the idea that jumping will be relegated to something less in the future. Right now, I'm not complaining though.
rehmwa 2
QuoteI'm a noob by that definition. Funny thing is I don't even feel it's sad. Of course, I'm a noob by two other definitions too; years in sport and jump numbers. There may very well be a correlation.
perhaps, but 900 jumps in 2 years, no one should be saying you aren't current. (I hold a lot more with being current than the other metrics, at least if you stay current, the lessons stick better).
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Quotei will now change my FJC to cover only those three topics!
Simplify it even more. Your students have packers and AADs, right? Landings are where it's at. Remember, it's not "any landing you walk away from..." It's "any landing you do a kickass swoop on and stand it up..." My canopy coaches told me so.
Anyway, to the original question...
I think an experienced skydiver is one that knows things through experience, not through reading or being taught. You don't get experience by hanging out at a DZ. You get it by stuff happening to you that you learn from. Having knowledge is different from having experience. An experienced skydiver can suck at landing... experience isn't the same as skill. A new skydiver can be an awesome swooper. Skill isn't the same as experience.
I don't consider myself experienced, and I probably never will. I also don't consider anyone with fewer jumps than me experienced, and I probably never will. I get freaked out seeing people with fewer jumps than me swooping. I have to remind myself that I'm allowed to swoop too, if I wanted to. I'm about to start camera flying (as soon as my helmet arrives). It freaks me out to realize that "they" are going to let ME jump a camera. Then I remind myself I could have jumped one 450 jumps ago if I believed 200 was enough jumps to start. It's even harder for me to believe that I'm the "they" that can make decisions like that now, as I'm on the board of directors of a dropzone. And don't get me started about people with 200 jumps or less that are static line instructors... that just blows my mind.
I've got experiences, and I'm experienced enough to do some cool things... but I'm not experienced. Those instructors that have been there and done that, and repacked their reserve after their last cutaway... they're experienced.
Dave
velo90 0
QuoteFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
An expert is
Blah, blah...
I thought the question was "What makes an experienced skydiver?", not "What makes an expert skydiver?".
Pay attention please.
Ron 7
QuoteFor all those people who have your panties in a wringer over my landing comments...figure it out. There are three things every jump consists of...packing, pulling, landing. I can pay a packer, and I can have a Cypress put a canopy over my head, but I have yet to find a way to land a non-tandem skydive other than myself.
If you can't pack you are not experinced, and if you trust your CYPRES to save you, you are dangerous.
QuoteDo you want to know why I know so many so called "expert" or "experienced" skydivers land like crap? Because my CANOPY COACHES have just had me sit with them on the grass and watch people plow in over and over...and then I debrief them on what the person did wrong
Not bad, but you are acting like YOU know better than them. Thats pretty bad.
QuoteI am not experienced. And for all of those who personally jumped my ass for my extremely general statement, I don't consider any of you experienced either. None of you are Dan BC's, or Jim Wallace's, or Mike Swanson's.
Yep, I am not them, but you are not many other people as well.
I am with Wendy....I hope you look back on this later and understand why people are giving you grief.
QuoteYou want to put me in my place, but I'm very well aware of my place, you should figure out yours...
Your tone does not sound like you know your place. Thats just an observation and maybe the reason you are getting flack.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
billvon 2,396
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>An expert is someone widely recognized as a reliable source of
> knowledge, technique, or skill whose judgment is accorded authority
> and status by the public or their peers.
Interesting definition. By those standards I was an expert when I hit 130 jumps and got my SL-JM rating. (Of course, back then I really _did_ think I was an expert in all things skydiving, so maybe that works . . . )
> knowledge, technique, or skill whose judgment is accorded authority
> and status by the public or their peers.
Interesting definition. By those standards I was an expert when I hit 130 jumps and got my SL-JM rating. (Of course, back then I really _did_ think I was an expert in all things skydiving, so maybe that works . . . )
Ron 7
QuoteI'm a noob by that definition. Funny thing is I don't even feel it's sad. Of course, I'm a noob by two other definitions too; years in sport and jump numbers. There may very well be a correlation.
And there is nothing wrong with being a newbie or as someone esle showed from a definition a "technician".
I don't consider myself an expert either. All it takes for me to realise I don't have a clue is try to do a freefly jump....Yeah, I do OK flat, but on my head I am a novice.
QuoteI'm open to the idea that jumping will be relegated to something less in the future. Right now, I'm not complaining though.
And that right there means a bunch. You love the sport, but can see other things. I see some people attack others when they quit...That always kills me.
The are so engrossed that they can't look past skydiving to know that its very rarely a "forever" sport.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Ron 7
Quote>An expert is someone widely recognized as a reliable source of
> knowledge, technique, or skill whose judgment is accorded authority
> and status by the public or their peers.
Interesting definition. By those standards I was an expert when I hit 130 jumps and got my SL-JM rating. (Of course, back then I really _did_ think I was an expert in all things skydiving, so maybe that works . . . )
Except it says, " is accorded authority and status by the public or their peers."
Just because the USPA says its so, does not make it so.
Now you could be considered an expert. Based on the knowledge you have and share...Even without a rating.
I find it funny that those that self proclaim to be experts rarely are, and those that are experts (or experinced" don't normally try and prove it to others.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
billvon 2,396
>Except it says, " is accorded authority and status by the public or their peers."
Right, I was thinking the definition held because I was accorded authority by all my students and by the DZ. But I think the place that falls apart is:
a) 1993 standards are not the same as 2006 standards, and
b) being accorded authority and status by the public and their peers doesn't mean too much unless you define who their peers are. If my level-7 student thinks I'm hot shit, it doesn't mean too much in the overall scheme. If Dan BC thinks I'm decent at RW - that means a lot more, both to me and the skydiving community at large (I think.)
Right, I was thinking the definition held because I was accorded authority by all my students and by the DZ. But I think the place that falls apart is:
a) 1993 standards are not the same as 2006 standards, and
b) being accorded authority and status by the public and their peers doesn't mean too much unless you define who their peers are. If my level-7 student thinks I'm hot shit, it doesn't mean too much in the overall scheme. If Dan BC thinks I'm decent at RW - that means a lot more, both to me and the skydiving community at large (I think.)
AFFI 0
Merriam-Webster Online:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
Main Entry: ex·pe·ri·enced
Function: adjective
1 : made skillful or wise through experience
Main Entry: 2experience
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -enced; -enc·ing
1 : to learn by experience
2 : to have experience of : UNDERGO
So perhaps by definition someone who has had the experience of one tandem is experienced when compared to someone who has not? But is not when compared to someone who has thousands who is not when compared to someone who has ten(s) of thousnds who is not when compared to someone who has hundred(s) of thousnds who is not when compared to someone who has million(s) and on and on and on?
Jeezzzz...
Semantics...
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
Main Entry: ex·pe·ri·enced
Function: adjective
1 : made skillful or wise through experience
Main Entry: 2experience
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -enced; -enc·ing
1 : to learn by experience
2 : to have experience of : UNDERGO
So perhaps by definition someone who has had the experience of one tandem is experienced when compared to someone who has not? But is not when compared to someone who has thousands who is not when compared to someone who has ten(s) of thousnds who is not when compared to someone who has hundred(s) of thousnds who is not when compared to someone who has million(s) and on and on and on?
Jeezzzz...
Semantics...
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…
darnknit 0
QuoteI find it funny that those that self proclaim to be experts rarely are, and those that are experts (or experinced" don't normally try and prove it to others.
i was just thinking the same thing after reading all you had to say on this subject.
pulling is cool. keep it in the skin
How's this one?:
You're not experienced until your opinions have solidified to the point you believe they're facts.
Congrat's Ron, you're experienced!
Dave
You're not experienced until your opinions have solidified to the point you believe they're facts.
Congrat's Ron, you're experienced!
Dave
SethInMI 145
This is just semantics. To try and stay with the original context (100 J "experienced" skydiver going in):
An A-licenced skydiver has experienced 25 J, and has show basic proficency in exiting/tracking/landing etc. USPA considers this skydiver capable of jumping alone, incl. gear check, spotting, deployment, and landing.
If a licenced skydiver goes in, and the media refers to her as experienced, they are correct in a certain respect, they have 25 Js worth of experience. A hell of alot more than some 1st or 2nd jump student.
But compared to a 2000 J swooper or big-way jumper they don't know shit.
So here is a different way to phrase the original question: At what jump number should media reports change the deceased skydiver description from novice to experienced?
Let's play the numbers game! (We need a poll!)
An A-licenced skydiver has experienced 25 J, and has show basic proficency in exiting/tracking/landing etc. USPA considers this skydiver capable of jumping alone, incl. gear check, spotting, deployment, and landing.
If a licenced skydiver goes in, and the media refers to her as experienced, they are correct in a certain respect, they have 25 Js worth of experience. A hell of alot more than some 1st or 2nd jump student.
But compared to a 2000 J swooper or big-way jumper they don't know shit.
So here is a different way to phrase the original question: At what jump number should media reports change the deceased skydiver description from novice to experienced?
Let's play the numbers game! (We need a poll!)
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".
wmw999 2,121
I'd have to say that 100 jumps is pretty good for that; it's a little too experienced for "novice." Really. Unless they're making a jump that's of a new type for them (e.g. wingsuit and they have 200 jumps).QuoteAt what jump number should media reports change the deceased skydiver description from novice to experienced?
In my view, at least. For canopy fatalities, it's much safer to say if they're heavily loaded that they're a novice. But just not pulling? Nope, they should have that mastered.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
Ron 7
QuoteYou're not experienced until your opinions have solidified to the point you believe they're facts.
Aw thats kinda cute...Wrong, but cute. Give it some more time you might get it.
Difference between us is I listen when people with about 5.8 times the experience I have say something. (Or about 3100 more jumps)...You instead think you know more and refuse to listen. And even think you are so right that you argue.
Thinking you already know it all is a prime way of knowing if you are experienced....If you think you do know more, you are not experienced yet.
But you will never convience some people thay are not something. Their ego will not let them admit they are not top dog.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
darnknit 0
QuoteBut you will never convience some people thay are not something. Their ego will not let them admit they are not top dog.
i was just thinking that as i read all you had to say on this subject.
pulling is cool. keep it in the skin
Ron 7
QuoteQuote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But you will never convience some people thay are not something. Their ego will not let them admit they are not top dog.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i was just thinking that as i read all you had to say on this subject.
Wow all these nice personal attacks. Not original, not even funny, hell you are not even using new ones, but atleast you are trying.....Mommy not hug you enough?
Who pissed in your cornflakes anyway? I guess you are just that much better than everyone huh?
Try ADDING to a thread, and not just acting superior.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
billvon 2,396
>i was just thinking that as i read all you had to say on this subject.
>Mommy not hug you enough?
>and not just acting superior.
Would both of you please cut it out?
>Mommy not hug you enough?
>and not just acting superior.
Would both of you please cut it out?
Ron 7
Yeah sorry...I was just getting ready to delete my post.
No point in arguing.
No point in arguing.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
darnknit 0
dude, i'm in total agreement with you. i don't get where you think i was attacking you by throwing up a "me too" post.
pulling is cool. keep it in the skin
pulling is cool. keep it in the skin
Ron 7
Sorry dude...Got confused, wrong guy...Seems to happen a bunch these days.
Looking into a Vacation...That or a hooker
Of course don't tell the GF.
(About the Hooker...she would probley go on Vacation with me)
Looking into a Vacation...That or a hooker
Of course don't tell the GF.
(About the Hooker...she would probley go on Vacation with me)
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
jheadley 0
I heard Scott Miller once say that experience is not jump numbers, or freefall time, or years in the sport, but how much stuff have you lived through when shit went wrong. While I certainly do agree that there are things you can't learn without a lot of jumps, and there are things you can't learn without a lot of time in the sport, I also think what scott said is true too. You may have x number of thousands of jumps but if nothing has ever gone wrong then I don't consider that experienced, or at least AS experienced as someone with x number of jumps who has lived through problems. How one handles off-dz landings, malfunctions, aircraft emergencies, etc. makes them experienced.
I got to taste this a little for myself today. Today was the first time I had to really flat turn to save myself. Now I don't mean a "ohhh I'm 100 feet too low on my base leg and I need to turn onto final" flat turn, but a "Some asshole cut me off at 50 feet and if I don't turn I'm going to have a canopy collision" flat turn.
Yes that actually happened, I flew a normal 1000-600-300 box pattern following everyone else down like I always do and at about 50 feet, some guy flies right in front of me, flying completely perpendicular to me and the landing direction. I had to flat turn about 100 degrees, leveled the wing off, and landed in deep brakes with a PLF. When I walked back to the packing tent, a girl came up to me and said "Wow you handled that great, I thought you were going to go in."
So the moral of the story is that while I still certainly don't consider myself experienced, I now think I'm a little more experienced than I was before, and it's not because of the extra number in my log book.
(I had my camera on this jump but I actually turned it off after the freefall. Shit, that would have made good video.
)
I got to taste this a little for myself today. Today was the first time I had to really flat turn to save myself. Now I don't mean a "ohhh I'm 100 feet too low on my base leg and I need to turn onto final" flat turn, but a "Some asshole cut me off at 50 feet and if I don't turn I'm going to have a canopy collision" flat turn.
Yes that actually happened, I flew a normal 1000-600-300 box pattern following everyone else down like I always do and at about 50 feet, some guy flies right in front of me, flying completely perpendicular to me and the landing direction. I had to flat turn about 100 degrees, leveled the wing off, and landed in deep brakes with a PLF. When I walked back to the packing tent, a girl came up to me and said "Wow you handled that great, I thought you were going to go in."
So the moral of the story is that while I still certainly don't consider myself experienced, I now think I'm a little more experienced than I was before, and it's not because of the extra number in my log book.
(I had my camera on this jump but I actually turned it off after the freefall. Shit, that would have made good video.
)
that's brilliant! i will now change my FJC to cover only those three topics! after all, there are only those three things on every jump(which i could only have divined from your commentary). it should help decrease student overload. using this method they won't have too much information to process. they will become experienced faster, and all thanks to you!
GOD BLESS YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT
pulling is cool. keep it in the skin
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