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woodpecker

thinking downsize

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I've jumped my pilot 150 for the past 250 jumps and love it. I can land it up/down/cross/and whatever else the wind has to offer (stand up) with no issues, weight shift turns, risers, blah blah blah.

Simply I love this canopy but am starting to want a little more performance.

For all of you a hell of a lot more experienced than me, how much more performance will I get out of a the next smaller pilot? Or should I just get a different 150 to get more out of it.

ps....I'm keeping the pilot 150 for wingsuit so I can always switch back if I hate the switch.

Thanks in advance,

Billy
SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

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Actually, jumping the Diablo can give you an idea of what you mean by performance. When you turn it, it dives like a mother out of the sky (which is what I think is fun). It doesn't swoop as well as some, but if you like that radical response to toggle or riser inputs, it's a great canopy.

Then go try something else. And something else after that.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Let me add a little to this thread so the question is better understood.

I have a jedei 150 fully eliptical. I'm not wanting to move up to a full eliptical canopy just yet. I've flown that beast a few times and just not comfortable in the "just in case" scenario to jump it full time.

So with that added knowledge, will a pilot 135 (I think thats the next size down) be a huge difference, or would it be better to just use a different "non fully eliptical" 150 for some more performance?

And thanks for the replies so far (except andy :P )

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

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Hey shrek, been a few months and I'll bring the onions again next time I make it to the states.


Just looking for some more performance, faster turns, more responsive from the saddle....not alot more though. I want to take my downsizing slow and as said earlier, I love my pilot, just ready to get a LITTLE more zippy so my rational is that the same canopy, just a little smaller would do this without too much of an increase in performace. Thus the question for all you experienced people to help out.

Unlike most, I'm not in a hurry, just ready to make a little change.
SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

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Your nt really loading your 150 are you. If i remember your about 160-175lbs. I preferred the sabre2 over the pilot. But that is just me. I love my Nitro 135. When r u next over here. Deland has PD straight across the street. They are awesome when it comes to letting you demo. Plus, you can get a shit load of jumps while your down there especially between oct-march. If you visit the farm, hopefully Beezy can get you a demo on the nitro. Ask copeland about the canopy, he loved it
http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

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LOL Actually I'm 155 out the door.. :P

I'll try to make it over in October and am def. not buying till I demo. Just trying to get a plan together right now.

Hell, if I go to a 135 I'm only loading at a little over 1.1. So how much difference will the shorter lines make even at that load?

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

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The next step down in the pilot is a 140, then there is a 132.

I was flying a pilot 168 for about 130 jumps. I liked the way it flew but I wasn't thrilled with the openings (too long). The recovery arc was almost instantaneous with a loading of 1.1

I put about 30 jumps on a pilot 140 recently, at a loading of about 1.35. Everything I didn't like with my old pilot seems to be getting better with a higher loading. It opens quicker, it dives much nicer, and the recovery arc isn't nearly as short as it was with the bigger canopy.

If you like the way your pilot flies now I would be suprised if you weren't very happy with a smaller sized one.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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Are you swooping 270's?

If not, you can still get more performance out of your canopy.

I'm on a 150, granted I'm a bit heavier at a 1.4 wingloading but I don't think it's a good idea to downsize just yet.

As far as eliptical canopies, go on youtube or skydivingmovies.com and look at every single linetwist problem that ended in a cut-away. Every single one of these videos is a guy with an eliptical canopy.
That says alot.

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Are you thiniking about swooping though? If not the downsize might be fine. If you're swooping maybe you should just go up to a higher performance canopy but keep the same wingloading. I jumped a sabre2 170 until i was doing 180's, now i'm demoing a crossfire 2 169. A very different canopy, but definitly, imo, swoops better.

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Ask the people at your dz. Ask a lot of them.

Ask yourself a few questions:

Can you put it in right in front of the pop machine at your dz like you're in a Pepsi commercial?

Is your accuracy almost getting boring because it's so good?

Are you confident to land out.... in funky winds?

Are you getting any younger, lighter, or more resistant to injury?

Are you staying current all year round?

Got health insurance?

Go for it. If you think you're ready. you probably are.


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Are you thiniking about swooping though? If not the downsize might be fine. If you're swooping maybe you should just go up to a higher performance canopy but keep the same wingloading. I jumped a sabre2 170 until i was doing 180's, now i'm demoing a crossfire 2 169. A very different canopy, but definitly, imo, swoops better.



You're doing 180's swoops at 136 jumps? Wow. It's amazing how fast people are learning these days.


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But think of how much smaller my rig will be with a 135 in it.... :P:P

I'll be there in spain and wanted to take the course anyway. Besides, I'm not in a hurry, just getting a plan together.....goal if you will.

Thanks all for the input. Tony, hurry up and get back, and bring the sun with you......at this rate we will be able to kyak the crag instead of climbing it.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

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At a relatively low wingloading like yours you wont notice a huge performance change by changing the type of canopy and keeping the same wingloading. A differnce yes but even if you went fully eliptical it wont take long befor your again wanting more performance. If you look at all the higher performance canopies they have minimum as well as maximum wing loadings, if your under or close to the minimum you simply do not get the performance that the canopy was designed to give. Once your within the boundaried you will notice a much bigger change in performance between types of canopies

Once you have squeezed every ounce of performance out of your canopy your best bet is to go smaller and increase your wing loading. Without seeing you jump i cant really comment about what you should/could jump so you really need to go get some good canopy coaching, Brian is about as good as it gets so do it if you can.

As a rough rule (a little bit on the safe side i know) you need to beable to jump your current canopy downwind and or crosswind in a 10 - 15knot wind accurately and reliably the day after the longest layoff you are ever going to have (winter, work, whatever...). You should beable to make consistent accurate riser landing (more important at higher wingloadings than yours), by which i mean front riser turns and flaring with your rear risers in an emergency situation. Dont go practicing this at ground level without supervision but it is something you need to think about because you may well have a brake line snap on opening or at an altitude when you cant cut away and you still need to be able to land.

This is like most things in skydiving an opinion and should be taken as exactly that, go get coaching from someone you trust and be carefull

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Are you swooping 270's?

If not, you can still get more performance out of your canopy.

I'm on a 150, granted I'm a bit heavier at a 1.4 wingloading but I don't think it's a good idea to downsize just yet.


Wow! What an argument!

I happen to have a Pilot 150. It is a good all-around canopy, but it is not really for swooping. Is there any sense learning how to swoop low? I have to release fronts about 4(!!!) seconds before impact. :S It gains altitude if I release my fronts from an 180 degrees turn. What is the point forcing a flat trimmed canopy into dive, if it does not want? There are way better tools for the purpose. I have switched to Cobalt135 and I'm happy with it. I still fly my Pilot with wing suit.

Quote

As far as eliptical canopies, go on youtube or skydivingmovies.com and look at every single linetwist problem that ended in a cut-away. Every single one of these videos is a guy with an eliptical canopy.
That says alot.


What does it say? No pain, no gain. Notice that every canopy is a compromise! How many line twists have you got so far on ellipticals? I got a couple and cut only one away. I still have no fear to jump that canopy. Shit can happen to every one.

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