An introduction to Skydive Secure - data unity for skydivers.

[Mr17Hz 1]

I am posting this today to introduce Skydive Secure to the community on dropzone.com. Aside from a few conversations I’ve had with a dozen or so people, this is my first public explanation of a service that I’ve created to provide to the community at no cost for the purpose of an incredible industry even more incredible.

I’ve posted this message first on Dropzone.com for the purpose of generating useful discussions and comments, as well as begin to make organizations aware of the service through word-of-mouth discussion. I am a software guy, not a salesman. I will continue to check this thread to reply to any questions that may be had. I would ask that the forum vultures and trolls please reframe from posting without first reading the entire post.

Many of you already know who I am and what I do, but for those who don’t, my name is Matt Christenson, and I am the founder a software company specifically targeting the skydiving industry, RealSkydiving Incorporated. Our primary product is a Dropzone management product named RealDropzone™, after it hits the market our efforts will change to focus on improving the options available for ethical online marketing in the industry by creating a number of B2B (Business to Business) web services to assist in allowing for commission based sales, but that’s not what this notice is about.

Before I begin describing Skydive Secure and its potential value to the international Skydiving industry, I want to identify that my desire for it is to eventually be a not-for-profit consortium of its own. While currently owned and maintained by RealSkydiving Incorporated, I do not intend to be the “owner” of the service for any longer than what is necessary to get it started. My plan is to turn it into an international not-for-profit consortium that will maintain the service and its policies as soon as it is economically feasible to do so.

I created Skydive Secure to solve a few problems I was having when envisioning RealDropzone™. The purpose of my product is to streamline business at Dropzones as efficiently as possible, eliminating time consuming tasks from both office employees and skydivers alike, as well as opening up a number of new possibilities in online marketing – one of the goals in any business is to eliminate double entry into multiple systems, speed up information collection, and eliminate erroneous data. Skydive Secure was created as a core component to a number of time and money saving features.

When I began working on Skydive Secure, almost 12 months ago, it was originally going to be a proprietary system for RealDropzone™ users, mostly for economical reasons – but the more I thought about the possibilities that the system introduces – the more I realized how the service could help just about everyone in the skydiving industry catch up with all of those industries that have the advantage of millions, even billions, of dollars being invested into information technology. In addition to the economical advantages provided to businesses of every type, Skydive Secure ads a wealth convenience features to skydivers themselves.

I was originally going to wait to bring this to the public until I had proven it with RealDropzone™, around 100 users have already experienced the surface of the functionality it provides. In a recent correspondence with Jan Meyer of Aerosoftware, she mentioned her product Motion Manager, which the USPA is adapting to handle electronic voting. I should mention that Motion Manager was not the topic of conversation, and that I really know very little about the product – except that I think it’s great that we’re seeing this kind of technology in the hands of the USPA.

The concept brought up the question for me: if USPA members are to vote electronically at the next BOD elections – how will user authentication take place? The USPA does not currently have a user sign-on system on their website, last I used any functionality at all, the best they had was a one-transaction-at-a-time payment form for renewals.

This realization is what caused me to decide to go public with this service and it’s capabilities now, instead of later – because if I wait too long to attempt to centralize the industry’s focus with my ideas on an industry portable single-sign-on service, funds may be spend down the wrong path; making it harder to capture as much value as possible in participation.

Skydive Secure (which, yes, I will finally describe in a minute) is not completely mature yet – it has past beta testing and is currently in operation in its first phase at www.SkydiveSecure.org, but you won’t be able to see the value unless you look at it from the perspective of participating business and websites. Currently, the only company using Skydive Secure is Skydive Chicago, and it has just been activated this last week; so it’s got some growing to do. I am writing this now in effort to get organizations, businesses, industry websites, and Dropzones thinking about the value and planning for the future when considering new software products, website services, and added online functionality.

So what is Skydive Secure?

Skydive secure is a single sign-on service for Skydivers, at its surface it is a service that provides a single username and password for skydivers to use to sign on to industry websites, but it’s value to the community goes considerably deeper than what is on the surface.

The subscriber based profile model built into Skydive Secure allows customers (skydivers) themselves to maintain personal data. Personal information such as names, addresses, age, jump numbers, timezone preferences, language / preferred locale information, is maintained by the customers themselves directly on the Skydive Secure website.

Participating websites, or ‘MemberPortals’, integrate with Skydive Secure so that in order to log on to the MemberPortal, the user signs into Skydive Secure using his or her SkydiveSecureID™. MemberPortals then subscribe to information related to user accounts, allowing everyone to be easily and automatically updated when information, such as a user address changes.

Privacy is protected for the SkydiveSecureID™ customer from unwanted MemberPortals accessing their profile information, in order for a MemberPortal to subscribe to SkydiveSecureID™ profile information, the customer must first allow that MemberPortal access by using a form like the one attached, which is displayed seamlessly the first time a SkydiveSecureID™ customer accesses a particular MemberPortal’s website.

The SkydiveSecureID™ customer always has complete control over which MemberPortal’s are allowed access to their personal information. Already, you can begin to see value, consider the following Scenario:

Skydiver Billy jumps at West Side Skydiving, he registers for the West Side Skydiving website which forwards him to www.SkydiveSecure.org, where he creates his SkydiveSecureID™ profile and is then redirected back to www.WestSideSkydiving.com signed in, West Side Skydiving is now subscribed to Billy’s information, which includes his name, address, contact information, membership numbers, emergency contact information, and any special health conditions that may be important for emergency personal to know in the event of an emergency (drug allergies).

Billy decides that he’s going to visit a new Dropzone on the east side of town, curiously named East Side Skydiving. Billy goes to www.EastSideSkydiving.com, he is redirected to www.SkydiveSecure.org where he is asked if he would like to provide the East Side Skydiving company with access to his personal information. Billy accepts the agreement with a single click and East Side Skydiving’s Dropzone software is automatically updated with his personal information, including emergency contact information and membership numbers. All of this happened with one click of the mouse – no information had to be typed, entered manually at the Dropzone by an employee, read over the phone, or entered into 3 different software packages.

A few months later, Billy moves out of his apartment and into his new home, he updates his address on the Skydive Secure website and both WestSideSkydiving and EastSideSkydiving are able to query that new address the next time he signs onto the site. MemberPortals can maintain a log of historic values to protect against a SkydiveSecureID™ member changing his information to fictional values.

Let’s say that Billy finds out that East Side Skydiving decides to partner with a company called SkyDried – an online ticket broker with business practices that Billy does not agree with. Billy decides he won’t be a patron of East Side Skydiving anymore, so he goes to www.SkydiveSecure.org and removes www.EastSideSkydiving.com from his membership list, at that point East Side Skydiving can no longer query profile changes to Billy’s account – they will only have information that was retrieved while Billy was a customer.

The above was a very simple example of how Skydive Secure can make the life of a Skydiver easier, and also make the Dropzone itself more efficient by reducing the amount of office work required at check-in to a mere visual verification of data from a government issued ID, and the signature witness of a pre-filled out waiver. If 30,000 Skydivers save a Dropzone 5 minutes of time from an $8/hr employee at a Dropzone once a year – the Skydiving economy benefits by $20,000 in extra resources. Obviously not every Dropzone and skydiver is going to jump on this system, but the savings and convenience is already noticeable.

Taking things to the next step, we can add to the system by allowing MemberPortal’s to create their own SkydiveSecureID™ properties for other subscribers to consume. Consider that the USPA decides to use www.SkydiveSecure.org to handle their online member services; the USPA can add their own property fields, such as USPA Membership Number, a list of license numbers, membership expiration dates, and awards, which become associated with a particular SkydiveSecureID™. The USPA becomes the owner of these properties; they maintain the data internally – which can be wired into their internal databases. Consider the following.

Billy hasn’t jumped in a few weeks and decides to spend the weekend jumping at West Side Skydiving, when he attempts to manifest, the employee notifies him that his USPA Membership has expired, and that they have a strict policy of requiring current membership. Billy calls the USPA and provides them with his credit card number and an employee at the USPA processes the order, which updates their database, which updates skydive secure, which updates the system at West Side Skydiving. Billy then manifests himself successfully. Alternatively, Billy might use his PDA cell phone or an internet terminal at the Dropzone to renew his membership on the USPA website.

In this scenario, the Dropzone was able to save administrative time in checking Billy’s USPA membership expiration date by manually accessing the web pages they provide for this, as well as receive a confirmation from the USPA that his membership had been renewed – without pickup up the phone or going through any other hassle. There’s more to my story:

West Side Skydiving decides to start using the coolest new Dropzone software package on the market, RealDropzone™ (shameless plug), RealDropzone automatically maintains a SkydiveSecureID™ property array that lists how many jumps a skydiver makes, and when. The USPA, being a subscriber, is now able to get an exact number of jumps that that each one of their members makes during the course of a year at all of the Dropzones that run this software – allowing them to release more accurate information in their annual incident analysis, providing the US jumping community with more value.

Johnny is in college for information technology and a sport jumper when money allows. His love for the sport has him decide that he’d like to set up a new website called www.ReportYourMal.com, where Skydivers report malfunctions that they’ve experienced, the equipment they were jumping, any video of the incident, and how they fixed the problem. He wants to build the site quickly but still wants to integrate with Skydive Secure, so he uses the free client DotNetNuke modules that I’ve written that allow websites running DotNetNuke to integrate quickly with little or no development overhead. His website becomes very popular and frequently used, particularly because all other Skydive Secure MemberPortals can query information about statistics… The USPA can look at malfunction rates of their members, Gear manufacturers that integrate with Skydive Secure can encourage customers to register their purchases on their website, enabling them access to profile information published by www.ReportYourMal.com. Other countries member groups can see their own member’s statistics as well.

For security measures, users are always redirected to the Skydive Secure website to sign into a MemberPortal’s website. This is done instead of placing Username and Password fields on the MemberPortal’s website itself. This is by design and to solve two different security issues:

• Passwords are never entered on a MemberPortal’s website which means that they do not have the capability to capture a SkydiveSecureID™ password to use unscrupulously. This protects MemberPortal’s from each other, as well as protects the privacy of the skydiver.

• By usernames and passwords only being entered on the Skydive Secure website, we can help prevent an internet attack known as password phishing (tricking a user into entering their username and password in a “fake” website made to look legit). Users can be warned only to enter their password when they see the URL begin with https://www.SkydiveSecure.org

I should note that www.SkydiveSecure.org will never list the participating businesses on its website. This is to protect competing businesses from each other. The site has been designed in such a way that navigating directly to www.SkydiveSecure.org allows only the ability to sign in and to edit profile and membership information; the site will seem somewhat senseless to someone that navigates directly to it and does not know it’s purpose; this is by design.

Entering the Skydive Secure login page from a MemberPortal page will alter the login layout to represent the entry point for that particular session. If a user happens to stumble upon a second website that uses www.SkydiveSecure.org, it will have been due to influences outside of Skydive Secure.

This architecture also allows for a unique opportunity to promote ethical business practices, Skydive Secure has would have the opportunity to become a 3rd party service similar to the Better Business Bureau, with the added twist that in addition to accepting complains, positive customer feedback is proactively gathered with automatic surveys being emailed out after tandem appointments. A code of conduct can be created that lists a set of rules that participating Dropzones must follow. Example rules might be:

• A Dropzone must communicate refund policies before accepting money for goods, or else offer a full refund upon request.

• A Dropzone must clearly communicate its physical location before accepting money for goods.

If a valid complaint is received, researched, and confirmed to be true and unresolved – that negative mark would show up on the new user registration form for that dropzone’s website until such time that the difference was settled.

The entire premise of this system is that no Dropzone would ever sign up for the service if it did not intent to follow these simple ethical business guidelines – the threat of having an unsettled complaint would jeopardize business drastically because for as long as a Dropzone participates as a MemberPortal of Skydive Secure – it would never want a single unresolved complaint. Off hand, I can only think of around one company, and a few hundred websites that this might negatively affect.

In order for Skydive Secure to be accepted by the industry, it must be a free service, or very close too it. The site has been designed to keep operating costs at a minimum, Hosting fees are likely never to exceed $4,800 using leased servers to avoid unexpected hardware costs, two servers are being used to support redundancy as well as allow for software updates without downtime. RealSkydiving will continue to provide developer resources when necessary, as we see value from the project. All Skydive Secure side development will always be done at no cost to the implementer, however remote side integration is the responsibility of the MemberPortal. Donations will graciously be collected to cover hosting fees and RealSkydiving Incorporated will cover the remaining costs.

RealSkydiving has designed client side components for the DotNetNuke content management system (CMS). DotNetNuke is the CMS chosen to host RealDropzone™’s web components. These DotNetNuke components are available free of charge. For information on DotNetNuke, visit www.DotNetNuke.com.

While integration on the client end may require custom development, documentation will be provided so that any seasoned software developer can perform advanced integration. In addition, client packages will be provided for free for simple integration, there is a DotNetNuke client module already available. For example, if a 4-way team wanted to enable Skydive Secure authentication on their team website and forums, a non developer could set this up without too much trouble.

Skydive Secure also offers a number of advantages to websites by handling many features that might otherwise need to be developed for. Integration using existing client components is fast and easy, and brings with it all of the following features:

• Skydive Secure is hosted as a secure encrypted website, eliminating the need for client certificates on MemberPortal sites interested only in encrypted login. (sites accepting credit cards will still need a certificate)

• Email validation requires a user to login using a verification code retrieved through their email address.

• Username retrieval and password resetting features are implemented in a way that provides users ease of retrieval in a way that protects against hackers.

• Hacking attempts are proactively monitored and accounts are locked accordingly to ensure customer security.

• CAPTCHA will be included in Phase 2 of the registration process, and in certain login situations. CAPTCHA (Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart) is the feature that you’ve seen that requires users to type a string a graphic image that is difficult for computer bots to read. CAPTCHA helps significantly reduce spam bot activity on websites.

• Skydive Secure already has custom registration forms to query skydiving industry information. No custom data collection forms need to be designed for any MemberPortal sites.

• Allow seem-less moving from partnered company sites maintaining login (from a dropzone to that dropzone’s pro-shop or tandem video shop)

• Because during a single browsing session you only need to sign in once, if a user visits a Dropzone’s website (www.SkydiveChicago.com) and follows a link to the USPA website – the user is automatically logged into the USPA website. This means that a large portion of what used to be anonymous hits to the USPA website can now be tied with an individual user – giving the USPA a better idea of who is visiting their site, and how regularly.

Advantages go beyond web use; we plan to have self manifesting kiosks at Skydive Chicago before the end of the season. Skydivers will use their SkydiveSecureID™ login and password to manifest themselves. In the future, RFID login tokens may be assigned to speed up the authentication at these terminals, as well as allow for automatic tracking of who is on a plane, and who has entered the packing area after landing (quickly identifying individuals who may have landed off)

A few technical details:

Integration through Skydive Secure is done through SOAP web services; allowing any hosting platform or server language to integrate with it, we could assist in creating client components for languages we’re unfamiliar with by providing the API (application programming interface) specification, or create client components for platforms that we’re already familiar with.

I firmly believe that the value behind a service like this being implemented is immeasurable. It benefits membership organizations, manufacturers, Dropzones, software packages, and skydivers themselves.

Skydive Secure is not a pipe dream; it is a technology that is currently in use. RealDropzone™ is already consuming the service, we’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars in resources, months of development time architecting, coding, testing, and implementing the solution to be flexible and secure.

I would love to see other companies, organizations, and individuals interested in integrating with this service, specifically well known organizations that are required to maintain their own membership information such as the USPA. Organizations like Dropzone.com, Skydive Radio, Rigminder, and other useful industry websites could benefit from integrating as well; and participation may help convince organizations such as the USPA to participate.

I would appreciate anyone in an influential position in the industry contacting me at [email protected] to discuss how we might join together to bring the Skydiving industry into the next century of data management.

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[GrabGrass 0]

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Skydive Secure ads a wealth

I would guess you meant 'adds' but therein lies my concern, the 'wealth' generated by selling someone 'personal' information... and record of travel, expenditures, type of equipment, etc. may be of more value than the actual service.

And I don't want my life that much of an open book.

At least not until 1984 anyway!

~ "Pack Fast, Pull Low... and Date Your Riggers WIFE!" ~

[Mr17Hz 1]

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Skydive Secure ads a wealth

I would guess you meant 'adds' but therein lies my concern, the 'wealth' generated by selling someone 'personal' information... and record of travel, expenditures, type of equipment, etc. may be of more value than the actual service.

And I don't want my life that much of an open book.

At least not until 1984 anyway!

Skydive Secure does not allow any particular business access to your information unless you allow it.

What they do with your information is no different than what they would do with it after they collect it at the manifest office or on your waiver.

The only thing that this system changes is that information moves around easier because all you need to do is log in and click an accept button instead of filling out the same forms over and over again.

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[rwieder 0]

Not a prayer. I'll fill out the forms. I can't stand data bases. Invasion of privacy is a "sticky" subject. It is a great concept though.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[GrabGrass 0]

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Skydive Secure does not allow any particular business access to your information unless you allow it.

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Just like Bank of America, and the IRS right?

If it's on line it can be breached, you know that!

No thanks.

~ "Pack Fast, Pull Low... and Date Your Riggers WIFE!" ~

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[Mr17Hz 1]

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Not a prayer. I'll fill out the forms. I can't stand data bases. Invasion of privacy is a "sticky" subject. It is a great concept though.

For those that are particularly worried about privacy issues, you probably don't fill out any information on websites already, or purchase anything online, and for those people, there is no requirement to use the service.

Most profile properties are optional, you only have to provide as much information as you want to...

Nothing changes regaurding privacy than what already exists.

If you're the type of person that doesn't like filling information in online, this service still benefits you - it saves time for everyone who doesn't mind filling things in on online - lowering USPA membership costs and your jump prices. You're not required to fill out information online - it just means that when you get to a dropzone it's going to take you longer to check in. That's your right.

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[pilotdave 0]

When you give your info to a DZ and they put it on a computer, how do you know where it goes from there? I believe many manifest systems can make at least some of your personal info available over the internet. Course this would be a bigger target, but hopefully it will also be thought out pretty well.

What information do you give to manifest other than credit card info would you be afraid of "getting out?"

Dave

[Mr17Hz 1]

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Skydive Secure does not allow any particular business access to your information unless you allow it.

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Just like Bank of America, and the IRS right?

If it's on line it can be breached, you know that!

No thanks.

As a data security expert, I do have my own opinions on all of this, but I really don't want to turn this thread into a privacy and data security discussion.

The point is that if you don't want to use the service then you don't have to. If you don't want to purchase something online then you can go to the store. If you don't want someone to know your address then you don't give it too them... All of these issues are exactly the same as before; you don't need to use the service.

The service benefits people who are already entering information online, already making online purchases, already checking bank statements and paying bills online...

Think about it this way, because your neighbor is using online billing with the bank of america and files taxes online, costs to the bank of america and the government are lower.

You can still go directly into the bank, send your US Post mail, and fill out your tax forms on paper to be mailed in with receipts; and still enjoy the higher interest rates because the bank has less expenses.

Implementing the system won't effect those who don't use it - it's that easy.

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

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[GrabGrass 0]

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What information do you give to manifest other than credit card info would you be afraid of "getting out?"

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I don't use a credit card at a dropzone because I don't believe them as secure as other institutions, that HAVE lost the information to the world.

Give me your name and birth date and I'll give you your SSN, Drivers license number, home address...

I'm not an affiliated dropzone, but I can access the USPA database (if I need to) because I know people that will let me, you're guaranteeing that someone won't possibly allow unauthorized access to your data?

To make a point a while back, someone in another thread was talking about and posting photos of their guns, I emailed that person back with their home address and work hours, explaining how easy it would be to add to my gun collection.




Give me your travel patterns and plans (as can be ascertained by the Skydive-Secure data) and I'll drop by and feed your dog, or something, while your gone.

(I'm retired from law enforcement, I KNOW this stuff happens!)


Maybe it's just me, I have felt the big brother's intrusion when B of A had their data base looted, and I take measures to make that more difficult now.



...Mailboxes etc. and the like DO COUNT as a home address on 'official' documents like Credit card bills and drivers licenses, USPA membership etc.

I can still be found, but it's a lot harder because I don't participate in programs that allow my information on some hard drive that I don't know about.

~ "Pack Fast, Pull Low... and Date Your Riggers WIFE!" ~

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[SwampThing 0]

Pass

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[Fast 0]

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I'm not an affiliated dropzone, but I can access the USPA database (if I need to) because I know people that will let me, you're guaranteeing that someone won't possibly allow unauthorized access to your data?

That is because the USPA database is a joke.


For what it is worth, I somewhat like where you are going with this idea. I think you might get more support for it if you do better to integrate with USPA. Though, who knows if they want to get involved.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[BIGUN 1,050]

I am intrigued. One could take it a step further and add their insurance information in the event of an incident.

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Think about it this way, because your neighbor is using online billing with the bank of america and files taxes online, costs to the bank of america and the government are lower.

Very rarely does operational efficiency lead to reduced pricing for the customer. It generally relates to increased margins for the organization.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[GrabGrass 0]

[Mr17Hz 1]

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That is because the USPA database is a joke.


For what it is worth, I somewhat like where you are going with this idea. I think you might get more support for it if you do better to integrate with USPA. Though, who knows if they want to get involved.

[Mr17Hz 1]

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I am intrigued. One could take it a step further and add their insurance information in the event of an incident.

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Think about it this way, because your neighbor is using online billing with the bank of america and files taxes online, costs to the bank of america and the government are lower.

Very rarely does operational efficiency lead to reduced pricing for the customer. It generally relates to increased margins for the organization.

Exactly! -The neatest thing about this is that the change only has to be made to the root Skydive Secure profile and all of a sudden all dropzones would have this new information without any change on their own website, local software, or anywhere!

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[DanG 1]

Do you really think this is going to make it easier for anyone? What exactly are you doing at a dropzone's website that requires you to log in? I have yet to encounter any reason to log in to a DZ website. I have logged in to USPA exactly once in 12 years to buy a copy of the IRM.

I guess I just don't get the point.

Oh, and as a quasi-DZO at a small dropzone where the only thing we could possibly sell online is tandem certificates, I fail to see how this would benefit any skydiving business except large gear stores.

- Dan G

[Mr17Hz 1]

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Do you really think this is going to make it easier for anyone? What exactly are you doing at a dropzone's website that requires you to log in? I have yet to encounter any reason to log in to a DZ website. I have logged in to USPA exactly once in 12 years to buy a copy of the IRM.

I guess I just don't get the point.

Oh, and as a quasi-DZO at a small dropzone where the only thing we could possibly sell online is tandem certificates, I fail to see how this would benefit any skydiving business except large gear stores.

- Dan G

Things that you can do at a dropzone's website that would require logging in:

- Posting on the DZ Forum

- Uploading pictures to the gallery

- Looking at your account balance

- Looking at your jump times / dates to assist in filling out a logbook at the end of the weekend.

- Fund your jump account.

- RSVP for free events, or register for events with registration fees.

- Reserve a tandem skydive.

- Schedule a previously purchased but unscheduled tandem skydive.

- Message a friend you met at the dropzone.

- Find out when your last repack was.

- Edit the content of a website for an event you're organizing.

Or - signing onto the dropzones website from the wireless network directly at the dropzone:

- Manifest for a load
- View load manifests and slot availability
- Organizers can manifest entire groups for a load.

If you truely can't see the value in being able to log into a dropzone's website, then you're not the kind of person that would use the website anyway, and it doesn't matter.

As far as selling tandem certificates - how long does it take you to check in a tandem student? By collecting their information ahead of time - the check in process can take less than 10 seconds per customer because all that you're doing is verifying information.

By giving tandem students accounts, it encourages them to sign on again to leave feedback about their experiences, enables them to participate in second jump discounts through online purchasing. It also enables you participate in customized opt-in email champaigns such as emailing customers you haven't seen in over a year, offering them discounts durring the slow seasons when you're just trying to get the planes flying - or birthday discounts.

Having a a community website in which community members identify themselves and build dynamic content is very successful in building a relationship with your customers - rather than considering them a product on an assembly line.

I would consider the fact that you've only logged into the USPA website once in 12 years a perfect argument to how badly they need to improve their information systems.

Check your watch, it's 2007 already.

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[sunshine 2]

I was actually a bit miffed that i had to provide personal information just to continue posting on the SDC forum.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Mr17Hz 1]

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I was actually a bit miffed that i had to provide personal information just to continue posting on the SDC forum.

You were not required to provide any information that Skydive Chicago did not already require before being allowed to jump at the dropzone.

Matt Christenson

[email protected]
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[sunshine 2]

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You were not required to provide any information that Skydive Chicago did not already require before being allowed to jump at the dropzone.

I know they have my info. And i think overall your software/program will help speed things along at dzs nationwide. I'm just moody about having to re-register to post on the SDC forum.

Sorry for being a butthead.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[WeakMindedFool 0]

And if your foolish enough to use a credit card EVER ANYWHERE, I can get your information from a pay phone. If you use a cell phone and give it out, anyone with an internet connection can find you if your in range of two towers. Sorry brother I had to laugh when you threw out the law enforcement thing as cred...I had the surreal experience of explaining to a tech crime detective what phone phreaking is.

I like the idea and would use it.

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
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[bigway 4]

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Billy decides that he’s going to visit a new Dropzone on the east side of town, curiously named East Side Skydiving. Billy goes to www.EastSideSkydiving.com, he is redirected to www.SkydiveSecure.org where he is asked if he would like to provide the East Side Skydiving company with access to his personal information. Billy accepts the agreement with a single click and East Side Skydiving’s Dropzone software is automatically updated with his personal information, including emergency contact information and membership numbers. All of this happened with one click of the mouse – no information had to be typed, entered manually at the Dropzone by an employee, read over the phone, or entered into 3 different software packages.

What is the need for Billy to so this?
I mean, why does he need to go to their website to start with? Surely the only reason you go to the website is to find out about the dropzone and how to get there. What is the point of leaving all this data?

I am guessing the point is you are trying to eliminate having to manifest at the dropzone when you first turn up. Are you not scared that this will make many people lose jobs, even more importantly are you not worried that the guys at the manifest dont get to talk to you and dont get to decide if you are fit enough to jump. Surely this will take away alot of safety issues and increase dangerous people on dropzones. What about the landing area briefing etc, is that going to be explained to you on a website as well?

I think you have a brilliant idea but at the same time i think you are by passing the most important stuff of turning up to a dropzone for the first time. You need to know who your sport customers are at a dropzone before you let them jump.


If i am going down the wrong path here please tell me ... but the statement i have quoted is where this reply stems from...

What is the point of all this? Why do you want everybody to have to go on the internet to sign up to each dropzone before arriving there? Where is it that you have found a need for this? Seems to me that it works well the way things are done now, why try and change things into a cyber world just to skydive?


I am not having a go Matt, i ask these questions so you can enlighten me so i understand what it is i am missing that you are seeing as from meeting you i know you are a very intelligent man and you must have some reason to be doing this for such a small community.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[GrabGrass 0]

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...I had the surreal experience of explaining to a tech crime detective what phone phreaking is.

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I'm sure you did.

And if you like it use it, I will not.

~ "Pack Fast, Pull Low... and Date Your Riggers WIFE!" ~

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[WeakMindedFool 0]

You missed the point . I wouldn't use the knowledge because I'm not a thief. The point was that if you think that NOT using the internet to do business will keep your information safe, your fooling yourself. Of course we try to keep our disclosure to a minimum, but if you believe handing your credit card to a clerk is safer then making an online purchase, your mistaken. It seems that with a system like the one described, you're increasing your security, not decreasing it. The only way you can realistically protect yourself is to diligently watch your bank account for anomalous charges...to do that you have to do it online

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
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[MarkM 0]

Sounds like a complicated solution to a pretty much non-existant problem.

You'll still have to sign and initial a waiver no matter what and filling an address, USPA and license number on the same form hardly requires a central database of information.

And for the 2-3% of skydiving websites that use auth, they're likely using it for sales which will use a shopping cart that won't integrate with your system anyway.