ScottTX 0 #1 July 31, 2007 From earlier posts about my jumps in the student training program, (STP),I related about the difficulties I was having. After feeling great and posting about the progress I had made after passing level 1, getting to level 4. I was feeling greatI am now at STP level 6 (I am told by others its the equivalent of an AFF level 3 or 4), and thats where I remain after 5 attempts. The last jump was probably among the worst I have had (videos do not lie), so I will spare the details. Sat down with the instructor I have been working with (not the one I made the last jump with) and discussed where I go from here. (I will again spare the details). So, at what point should I say "enough is enough" and realize that skydiving may not be in my future?. I have gone over that question many times during the last week and added up the positives and negatives of continuing. Positives. 1. I still have the heart and desire to continue. Ever wanted something so much that you cant find the words to begin to describe how you feel?. 2. The instructor I have spent a lot of time with attempting to overcome the various hurdles I am encountering has not given up on me, (not yet anyway). 3. The student training program at my dz is among the very best (my own difficulties not withstanding), the entire operation is in fact among the best anywhere, imo. 4. The great friends I have made at the dz, are supporting me all the way. Negatives 1. My rapidly declining financial condition might only continue to get worse than it already is even with working to the point of exhaustion at work to pay for it. 2. The disgust, and frustration level I have felt has never been higher than it is right now. So, have I reached that point of enough is enough?, my answer is no, not yet, although I realize my options for overcoming and succeeding are becoming limited. I am taking some time off from jumping, going to work on getting into the best shape of my life, both physically and psychologically, come back, ready to make several jumps a day for however many days in a row that it takes. I am not done yet! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebusto 0 #2 July 31, 2007 Get thee to a wind tunnel! I say that not having read any of your previous posts, but it seems most people stuck on AFF level 3 or 4 are spinning or otherwise having body position issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pinkfairy 0 #3 July 31, 2007 Well, as your instructor hasn't given up on you or given you the bowling talk, then it doesn't sound like you're a danger to yourself. And that's the most important thing on any skydive: landing safely. One of our best freeflyers had to repeat AFF level3 no less than 5 times, and good belly flyers that I know tell me about how they completely messed up their freefly training jumps. If you're just failing to do freefall moves, then you can still get good. Maybe you're in a bad cyclus righ now, you feel that you're no good because you fail levels, then lose all the self confidence you need to pass, and then fail again. I find that if I visualize a success in freefall, then it's much easier to achieve. I could not see myself sitflying, and sure enough: I ended up spinning on my back. What you're going to do in freefall is actually very easy, but fear and stress can make you fail. Don't get angry with yourself if you have to repeat levels, instead try to see the positive things in every jump. When I failed my freefly jump, at least I tracked away from the jumprun at the separation altitude we'd agreed on, and had a nice canopy ride and landing. If you have good points in your jumps, try to focus on them. "Wow, perfect pull and canopy opening", "Kick ass PLF" etc... Just remember, you don't have to skydive, we do it for fun. It would be completely pointless otherwise. Only you can decide if it's worth the risk, money and time for you. It's really your call, but don't let anyone tell you you should quit skydiving just because you fail levels, or that you will never be any good. It really does sound like a confidence problem, and it doesn't sound like you've given up. Whatever you do I wish you the best of luck. Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet. I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #4 July 31, 2007 There are many many people who have had to repeat the same stages 5-10 times. Some of them are very accomplished instrutors now. Some of them are on Open 4 and 8 way teams . If you want it Stick with it. If it's too much like hard work, then save your moneyYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,049 #5 July 31, 2007 You have some of the finest Instructors on the planet. As long as they haven't given up on you, don't give up on yourself. QuoteI still have the heart and desire to continue. Using a grease pencil; write this on the mirror in your bathroom. If you ever lose that "heart and desire," you'll know the day you decide to wipe it off there.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 51 #6 July 31, 2007 Nonsense. Your financial condition would be bad, even if you were flying through the levels. That just goes along with being a skydiver. Keep going and enjoy the jumps, bad or good. Almost no one is a natural at this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parajesus 0 #7 July 31, 2007 When I was kid, I wanted to learn how to ride a bicycle. Alone. 2 wheels only :) My father was running behind me all the time keeping his eye on me. I failed that exam probably a hundred times. My "Instructor" helped me to never harm seriously myself or anyone else. Some little bruises don't matter. So finally it worked out. Biking is not natural for a human being either. Can be learned. Keep working on it :) be conscious, watch out yourself and the others, be a man to say enough for today if you feel less concentrated. Until you have the heart and desire it’s enough to be a good respectable skydiver. Talent only matters when you want to be PRO. It could be that you are not talented to be a member of Golden Knights, but who knows? None can tell you after a few jumps. At this level where you are, in my opinion the most important skill to develop is being 100% concentrated and conscious from the time you start packing – until you land your canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #8 July 31, 2007 It took me 48 jumps to get off student status - read my logbook here: http://crwdog.servebeer.com/CRWdog/HowCRW.html I pulled upside down a lot :-) Now somehow or another, I've managed to become an AFF Instructor as well as a world-record holder in CRW. I somehow doubt my instructors would ever have thunk it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #9 July 31, 2007 "1. I still have the heart and desire to continue. Ever wanted something so much that you cant find the words to begin to describe how you feel?. 2. The instructor I have spent a lot of time with attempting to overcome the various hurdles I am encountering has not given up on me, (not yet anyway). 3. The student training program at my dz is among the very best (my own difficulties not withstanding), the entire operation is in fact among the best anywhere, imo. 4. The great friends I have made at the dz, are supporting me all the way. " Sounds like good reasons to cintinue to me...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #10 July 31, 2007 Wendy, You are in inspiration!Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2fat2fly 0 #11 July 31, 2007 The worst student that I have ever personally seen became a good coach and pretty good vidiot and can fly circles around me even if I zip tied his arms together(Not that I'd ever tell him that to his face) I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottTX 0 #12 July 31, 2007 Quote The worst student that I have ever personally seen became a good coach and pretty good vidiot and can fly circles around me even if I zip tied his arms together That is the goal I am striving for!. I am going to get over this, no matter what I have to do or wherever I have to go, just as long as the desire and willpower stay with me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drae 0 #13 July 31, 2007 QuoteGet thee to a wind tunnel! I say that not having read any of your previous posts, but it seems most people stuck on AFF level 3 or 4 are spinning or otherwise having body position issues. This is what my instructor advised me to do...I did, and the next jump I was able to pass to the next level. The tunnel really works! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keka 0 #14 July 31, 2007 get some wind tunnel that might help you. all the money that you've been spending with these jumps...could be converted to a good coaching at the wind tunnel. that will def. help you a lot. think about it! you will be concentrated to learn and not worried about pulling time your instructors should have told you that... it's a big help http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org PMS#551 I love my life :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottTX 0 #15 July 31, 2007 I did get some tunnel time back in April, when I was trying to overcome the hurdles I experienced back then and it did help. I am looking at possibly doing that again, I will bring it up the next time I speak with my instructor IF he is still talking with me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #16 July 31, 2007 Quoteyour instructors should have told you that... it's a big help chances are that rated instructors have covered just about any aveneue you can think of.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keka 0 #17 July 31, 2007 I agree.. .but if I were an AFF instructor and I see that one of my students was having problems and getting to do the same jump over and over again... i would def. suggest some wind tunnel time...or some time off - sometimes people are going through some ruff times.... and...everybody is different anyways. I did not repeat any of my aff jumps and I learn quickly...but that does not make me better than anyone http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org PMS#551 I love my life :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #18 July 31, 2007 Quote if I were an AFF instructor and I see that one of my students was having problems and getting to do the same jump over and over again... i would... Wendy is a fantastic skydiver and instructor, did you read her logbook? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2902575#2902575 Quote "I finally graduated! Only 48 jumps after I started!" Wendy... I know great instructors that had to do many repeat levels, it is not as unusual as you may think. When you get your AFF rating and after a few hundred student jumps you will have a different understanding. It is easy to armchair quarterback, but once you are in the foxhole fighting on the front line for a bit it is a different story. In my (experienced) opinion, I do not believe Scott needs more tunnel time nor needs to take time off (in fact, taking time off may be counterproductive in his case); it is just a matter of sticking with it. I can give this assessment about Scott because I have worked with him in person, he has got it going on, but he just has not realized that yet... Quote I did not repeat any of my aff jumps and I learn quickly...but that does not make me better than anyone Of course it does ...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwings 0 #19 July 31, 2007 It's interesting you mentioned he shouldn't take time off. For someone who is struggling, the downtime can add to the growing self-doubt. The more you get into the hang of things, the more confident you get, IMO. I know I get better as the day progresses. First jump of the day usually is iffy, but then the second and subsequent jumps vastly improve. Keep your chin up, Scott. You know you can do it. Relax and blue skies!Why don't you just go to the police station in a red clown suit and let everybody know what we're doing here? I have a phobia for moobs. Thanks, youknowwhoyouare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #20 July 31, 2007 keep going! we were two students that began training. i did really shit on the ground, the instructors had a bet who could choose. my instructors lost initially, but i made up for it in the air, and now i'm far ways better than the guy that had started with me.. i'm still having landing issues, but they're getting better! and i do outstanding in the air. i even outtrack the videoguy.. and that wasnt even my best track yet! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keka 0 #21 July 31, 2007 I had a friend that started the AFF pretty much at the saem time as I did, but she was having the same problems... dificulty to get stable, to relax... but she was going though some really not so good times....divorce and stuff... so she got some wind tunnel time... that helpd her a little... but it all went down hill when her ex start to skydive at the same DZ.. oh damn! when she finally convinced him that, that was HER time to be happy and hang out with people that SHE knew and liked....and he didn't go back there... then she started to focus on her jumps and graduated. when I say "time off" is not that you will spend the whole month at home... take a brake.. relax 1 weekend...read about it....watch videos... talk to people. it will all come to you. http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org PMS#551 I love my life :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepaintballguy 0 #22 July 31, 2007 I know exactly what you feel like. I got stuck on the AFF 3 or 4 (can't remember right now) and it took me 3 3 tries and I got it on my 4th and haven't failed one yet. It didn't say what you were having trouble with but for me it was leg position. I always had them to close to my butt and I was always back sliding. SO what I did to correct that was that I went on a Relaxing dive. I told my instructor that all I wanted to do was jump and freefall. I didn't want to do turns or tracking or anything. Just fall and practice my fall-rate. I wanted to see what it felt like to fall the right way through the WHOLE jump. (Before I could get the right position but as soon as I started a maneuver I would loose it.) After that jump I banged out my last student/AFF jumps without a problem. I will bo doing my first solos this weekend. WOOOHOOO Blue Skies JoshQ: Why would someone ever want to jump from a perfectly good airplane? A: Why Not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surferd00d 0 #23 July 31, 2007 Hang in there, I know the feeling, I failed my AFF LvL 7 jump last weekend, did everything I was supposed to cept I got unstable and started spinning around in the end and ended up pulling below 5000ft thus being an automatic failure... I would've retaken the jump as soon as I landed except I was a little shook up because I had a line twist so I decided to call it a day. Quite frankly I really suck at Skydiving, I can do the turns, barrel rolls, back flips, etc. But it just looks sloppy as hell, not to mention the fact that out of my past 7 jumps only 3 of em where within 20m of the landing spot, and only 2 of em were standing up... But I'm gonna keep on trying, hopefully I'll pass 7 this week, if I dont, then hell I'll try again, cuz in my point of view... hey your still jumping out of an airplane right? My dream is to someday have a Skydiving related job when I get out of the military :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #24 July 31, 2007 QuoteQuite frankly I really suck at Skydiving, I can do the turns, barrel rolls, back flips, etc. But it just looks sloppy as hell, not to mention the fact that out of my past 7 jumps only 3 of em where within 20m of the landing spot, and only 2 of em were standing up... Sounds like you are doing pretty good! What really makes a good skydiver though? To me it is someone who always remains teachable, continues to train for EP's and canopy piloting. the freefall stuff is cool, but all that comes with time.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illusioneer 0 #25 July 31, 2007 I think that sounds like a great idea thepaintballguy! Learning what effect body, leg, arm, hand, and head position has on your movement in freefall would be simpler if that was all you had to do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
