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freefallfrank

AFF Vs IAD

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I am wondering if people still do their first jumps via IAD: stepping out of the plane, hold on to wing bracket and let go when instructor nods and motions you to let go. Reason for asking is that I heard that Tendam or AFF is the way to go nowadays...unless my ignorance (ground air ) is getting to me. hmmmmm

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Many people still go that route. It's usually cheaper initially and per jump. A failed AFF level cost me $159. The static liners pay far less, I believe.

But that said, I'm happier with the choice I made. I went in to do AFF-1, my third overall, as a one time solo jump. I wouldn't have enjoyed a single IAD one as much, or gone on.

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IMHO, if money is no object then an AFF jump could be the way to go. You will experience freefall from altitude say 10000ft plus as opposed to a progression jump in which you will experience almost no freefall before the canopy opens.

Progression is cheaper but AFF should get you qualified faster. This can be useful if time is a constraint. There are lots of threads in this site covering this with input form instructors etc which would be worth a read.


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Pick whichever method you feel like doing. Personally I think tandem progression and/or AFF is the way to go. But that's just me...

The only way you are going to get proficient is to jump and jump often, regardless of the method you decide upon. Remember that you can change methods if you want to down the road.
NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

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I looked at them all and found AFF to be the best for me... it is what you are willing to do and spend. Seems that you pay just about the same for the A-license either way. Just make up your mind about what you want to do in the sport and then move from there.

I think the free fall is one of the best things out there, so that is why I chose AFF...


"Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!"
-- Friedrich Nietzsche

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Very true. By the time you get to the A-license level (which is truly when you graduate student status), the costs are remarkably close, at least here in North Carolina. Both students end up with exactly the same skillset at exactly the same time: 25 jumps (here in the USA).

Chuck Blue
D-12501
AFF/SL/TM-I, BMCI, PRO

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I am going through AFF right now and IMO it is the best way to learn. From day one you are getting adjusted to the idea of extended freefalls and consistant altitude awareness as well as maintaining a stable arch. You get to deploy your own pilot chute too (unless you miss it or pass the hard deck for your level, in which case, one of your instructors will deploy it for you).

The satisfaction of throwing your own pilot chute is awesome. I would recommend AFF to anyone who is starting out. It is pricey and you may have to repeat levels, but I don't want them to pass me when there are issues which could affect the safety of myself and other skydivers.

AFF all the way! B|
010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001

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I just finishd my freefall progression. I loved it. Gives you time to think about every jump, and let your skills sink in - so to speak. Plus, you get more jumps for the money you spend.

I started with 5 IAD's, then had first freefall at jump 6. I have just gotten my SOLO liscense here in Canada at jump 17.

Although the AFF (or our PFF) might have been a good way to learn quicker, (thus ends up being the same amount of money to get your solo), i got more skydives for my money.

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well...for the most part, until you're an instructor and have taught both of these styles, you're most likely goiing to think that the way you learned is the best way out there...especially if you're still in the course or have JUST gotten out of it. I think both ways are awesome, Either one gets you in the sky and gets you to the point where you can progress and get better and earn your License. I enjoyed the diversity and progression of the 3 tandem, 3 static, and 4 IAF course. It was rather enjoyable and different than the usualy skydive, to do statics. Also, I didn't experience all this anxiety that people are talking about with their AFF courses. Nor did I have any of their "I'm scared to go again" because I was progressed at an excellent rate. I got the experience and joys of freefall under someone else's control, then got to consentrate solely on canopy, then do body position in free fall and canopy. It let me focus on one thing at a time, I think it let me enjoy my first freefall much, much more without having so many new elements at once.

IMO: listen to why people enjoyed their progression, evaluate your personality and what would suit you, and go with that one...

the destination is awesome, but it's the road to get there that is to be truly valued. B|

good luck!


BE THE BUDDHA!

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IAD used to be the most popular method for first jump students, but it is gradually being replaced by tandem.
At Pitt Meadows, B.C. 90% of our students start with a tandem.
Ten percent start with IAD, especially when clouds are too low to allow us to take tandems to 10,000 feet.
After a couple of jumps, most of our IAD students continue with PFF (a 5-level Canadian program similar to AFF).
A few students opt for the old-school "traditional progression," where they do a few practice pulls (while still on IAD) followed by short freefalls, followed by longer freefalls, etc.
By the time a student has done 25 jumps (minimum for A Certificate) their skill set is the same, no matter which method they studied.
I do not know of any schools that offer first-jump freefall (AFF) in Western Canada.

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Heya, Frank!

Howyadoin? Here's my $.02 worth, Okay?

I've done training in AFF & IAD.
Started with AFF and finished up 2 YEARS LATER at different DZ with my DZ's own kinda program which included Tandem, S/L and IAD.

I personally did better with IAD. AND I finally finished the program in one season! YEAH!B|

Because S/L & IAD is much more affordable than AFF
you can afford more jumps to get you thru the program & get your A.

:)Blues! -LiLa.

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Heya Brant, glad you enjoyed the progression. I enjoyed being a part of your progression as an instructor as well.

When you speak of jumps, you might be more accurate to say "canopy flights and landings". The reality of almost any Cessna dropzone is we don't get enough altitude to make "7 jump AFF wonders".

I took my FJC on a whim. I was offered the choice of a tandem but my decision was to "do it myself". Immediately I was hooked on canopy flight and declined an invitation to transfer to AFF. My theroy...: it's the safe landings that count above all else. Besides that, I was actaully more interested in flight (hang gliding) when I took my FJC so it seemed like the better option. My accounting analysis (ya right, like this is a logical sport?) revealed little cost difference between the paths to the Solo license so I opted for canopy time. You know me, I'm still inclined to pitch pilotchute off the step even if I AM at the top. A regular CrEW habit is just a matter of time (I enjoyed foray #1 very much) - and finding some other dawgs.

The only thing I "hated" about the progression was "paper pulls" (who doesn't?). The sheer dificulty of maintaining awareness, proper arch, and the new skill of a training pull while a Manta simultaneously rips you out of freefall cannot be underestimated. Successful mastery of this skill makes every other deployment (and true hop-n-pops from ANY altitude) seem like child's play.


Beyond pulling, pulling stable, and pulling on time, I STILL believe that only landing safely is more important to your continued skydiving success. By the time you have 25-30 jumps there should be little difference in the skillset of an AFF vs IAD graduate (very true, Mr. Skymonkey). You're there now and you've learned a lot in a short time. Well done! From here it's more about your attitude than your aptitude. Achieving the SOLO proves a reasonable aptitude. Realizing it is just a 'ticket to learn' is the attitude that will make you successful in the sport. John Parrott often said "there are old skydivers and bold skydivers, but there are few old, bold skydivers".

See you all in the POPS club no matter what progresion method you choose (ask a follically challenged skydiver ;))!

-Dave
(C1, IA, QE)


Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

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What's the difference between IAD and AFF? Also in S/L when you say 10 second delay, 15 second, etc what does that mean.



IAD is Instructor Assisted Deployment. It's very similar to SL progression except that you don't have any gear to change around when it comes time to do your own pulling. On both systems (SL and IAD), you do five jumps where your chute will begin to deploy almost immediately after exiting the aircraft. Three of those five are jumps where you demonstrate your ability to pull on your own by executing "practice pulls". In most cases, it's your sixth jump where you deploy on your own using an "arch, reach, throw" count. That jump is executed from the same altitude and in the same manner as your previous three, only you don't have a SL or an instructor doing the actual deployment. From there, you work your way up to higher and higher altitudes and wait longer and longer until deployment (10 seconds, 15, 30, and 45 generally). As your jump altitude gets higher and your freefall times increase, you are required to perform more complex tasks.

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I'm still a newbie for all extents and purposes, but I'll attempt to tell you what I know, and the differences between AFF & IAD. If I'm off-base or wrong, I'm sure somebody will correct me...:$

This is How I think the differences compare, ok?

IAD (Instructor Aided Deployment) may use one instructor, who will assist you with your jumps- inside the plane and with exit when it's S/L(Static Line) and in freefall as you progress thru the program and are jumping with your own chute w/ a ripcord or throw out pilot chute.

AFF(Accelerated FreeFall) starts you out with your own rig and you jump out of the plane with two intructors with you. You need to progress thru each of 6 to 8 levels accomplishing particular tasks/skills in each jump to be ok'd to move on to the next level and to get closer to finishing the program & working towards your A.

I initially I went thru a variation of AFF - AFP - that used one AFF qualified instructor to work with me thru the program.

Static Line and the IAD progression program is much more affordable. Static lIne jumps were something like $60. Complared to over $160? for an AFF jump. Don't quote me ;)on the AFF price. I really don't remember what the actual cost is...

BLUES!
:)

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Incredibly simply. The student has a "faux PC" in his BOC pocket and the instructor is holding his/her real PC behind the student's back. On exit, the student goes through an "arch, reach, throw" count and throws the fake pc; sometimes a piece of balled-up newspaper in the shape of the real pc. Yes, the actual canopy is going through it's deployment sequence toward the end of that count, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that the student is maintaining a good body position and is performing the pull sequence to standard.

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Thanks, I found it hard to believe that a dz would allow a jumper(student) TO THROW AWAY A REAL pc.

a balled up piece of new paper ah? that is very interesting. believabale but interesting.

Are there any other ideas as to how to PRCP an IAD student?



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

At Pitt Meadows, we use a variation on SkymonkeyOne's "faux PC."
I sewed up a bunch of fake pilotchutes. They have the same handle as the rest of our student gear, but the "pilot chute" part is para-pack wrapped around foam rubber, so it is about the same size and weight as a real pilot chute. Instead of a bridle, I also sewed a couple feet of bungee cord on the bottom end: to prevent losing our "faux pilotchutes." I also sewed small loops on the right lateral straps of our student rigs. The small strap holds a rubber band, which acts as a "weak link" in case the "faux PC" entangles with a deploying parachute. It never has, and we have never lost a "faux PC."

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Back when we did belly and ROL pulls, the paper was excellent. When we moved to BOC, we found that the BOC moved as soon as the bag came out of the container. If the student got the paper, they must've had their hand in the wrong place.

I watched many a jumper fail over and over again because the pouch was not where it should be. I've even seen practice pulls get increasingly worse as pulling the paper becomes more important to the student than correct body position.

Years ago I found the key to correcting a twist on the pull was to get the student to do the sequence without paper a couple of times. That seemed to get the pull sequence into muscle memory. When the paper was reintroduced, the twist often disappeared but when it came time for the first FF, those who twisted in the beginning often twisted again.

About 3 years ago, I stopped using paper. I also stopped emphasizing the importance of pulling on practice pulls. I started putting emphasis on the arch first and pull sequence second. When they moved onto their first freefall (only after sucessfully doing both!), I could emphasize the pull as the stability was now into muscle memory. First FF stability was greatly improved.

Now, I'm not saying that we should not use training aids. What I am saying is that we should re-evaluate the effectiveness of training aids when technology changes. I found that cons outweigh the pros with paper pulls and a BOC.

Tim


I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

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I started with IAD as I could not afford AFF at the time.

I'm not hugely experienced at 163 jumps right now, but I believe I'm right where I should be with regard to my RW skills and canopy skills.

I know a guy that went AFF and has a hundred more jumps than I have. He just doesnt listen well and as a result he cant fly worth a damn. He doesnt improve because he believes that he is good and that its someone else on the dive that always blows it.

He isnt teachable because his mind is closed to the idea.

Folks dont want to jump with him and when he shows up at the DZ people try to be somewhere else so they dont feel obliged to invite him on a dive.

I believe that either approach will get you where you want to be as long as you listen and are willing to learn.
Open your ears. Open your mind. Be teachable and you will learn :-)
__

My mighty steed

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