There is a cost for everything.

[diablopilot 2]

"TANSTAAFL" said Mr. Heinlein, meaning "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".

Jumpers who complain about the costs of skydiving usually get little sympathy from me as they seem to be the "entitlement generation" types.

For example. There are a couple ways to learn how to pack.

1. Make friends, they will probably help you out. But it will take time and effort, and you might have to listen carefuly and be interested in learning. Maybe practice and do some studying, and be willing to accept some critique.

2. Pay someone $50 to $100 to spend 4 to 8 hours with you.

Nothing is EVER free. Just because it doesn't take money doesn't mean you are not paying for it.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[illusioneer 0]

here! here!

[WatchYourStep 0]

JP what are you talking about?

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[Thanatos340 1]

Best Packing Teaching method I have seen is somewhat of a Barter system. We have an Old School Jumper that will take New Jumpers and teach them to pack using his Rig. They have to pack 10 times for him(That is the cost). The student get to gain confidence in their Pack jobs as someone else is jumping the pack jobs.
By the time they pack their own, They know it will work (or atleast it did the last 10 times). He gets 10 free pack jobs.

Seems like a Win/Win to me.

And I agree, TANSTAAFL!

[diablopilot 2]

I'm just frustrated with the type of person that comes up and expects you to make a copy of a video you shot of them when they don't even know you, and then gets upset because you ask for 10 bucks or even for them to bring you a VHS tape.

Or the jumper that jumper that calls you a dick behind your back because you won't do a "quick repair" because "it'll only take five minutes" when they don't even know enough to turn a sewing machine on, and then get's pissed when you charge more than $5 for 30 minutes of work.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Best Packing Teaching method I have seen is somewhat of a Barter system. We have an Old School Jumper that will take New Jumpers and teach them to pack using his Rig. They have to pack 10 times for him(That is the cost). The student get to gain confidence in their Pack jobs as someone else is jumping the pack jobs.
By the time they pack their own, They know it will work (or atleast it did the last 10 times). He gets 10 free pack jobs.

Seems like a Win/Win to me.

And I agree, TANSTAAFL!

I have totaly done this in the past.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[monkycndo 0]

Sounds like JP just needs a hug.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[diablopilot 2]

I like hugs.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[northcave 0]

sounds like you're maybe a bit defensive... maybe its not that fact that u said no,,, maybe its the way u said it

[rygon 0]

the way i see it, time costs money..if they are helping out then I expect to buy them a beer at least. You are going to save money by packing yourself at the end of the day.

When i come to learning how to pack i will ask my instructor what is the best way to go about learning..then take his advice, but i dont expect ppl to help me because im entitled to it (as im not)..just a bit of common curtesy will help ppl go far (although at the moment ive never heard anyone whinging about anyones lack of help etc)

[Derekbox 0]

Im pretty much free. ;)

[ryoder 1,381]

Quote

2. Pay someone $50 to $100 to spend 4 to 8 hours with you.

Last time I paid $100, she only spent 15 minutes with me.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[sunshine 2]

Quote

Or the jumper that jumper that calls you a dick behind your back because you won't do a "quick repair" because "it'll only take five minutes" when they don't even know enough to turn a sewing machine on, and then get's pissed when you charge more than $5 for 30 minutes of work.

I feel your pain. I often have people wanting me to hook up a main or untangle a big mess of a main canopy. Granted if it's a good friend of mine, i'll of course help out. But i actually had a guy i didn't know ask me to install slinks on his main for him. I said i wouldn't do it for free and he got pissed.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

Quote

2. Pay someone $50 to $100 to spend 4 to 8 hours with you.

Last time I paid $100, she only spent 15 minutes with me.

You paid for half an hour. It's just that it only took 15 minutes.

[Erroll 49]

Quote

here! here!

Where? Where?

[DSE 3]

Quote

Quote

here! here!

Where? Where?

There There....are you blind? Or just deaf?

[Gawain 0]

You know, it's this whole, "take responsibility for your own growth attitude" from the up-jumpers in the sport that makes me wince.

Why shouldn't the DZ stop what it's doing and acknowledge my arrival, en masse.

Why shouldn't people be lining up to help me out and pack my chute for free...it's for me afterall.

...and don't even think of not including me on a jump, whether I dirt-dive with you or not. If the jump doesn't go according to plan, then you didn't explain it to me on the plane properly...obviously your fault.

Yes, I do want copies of our jumps from your camera. No, I didn't bring any extra disks or tapes, jeez...don't you have some? You can copy that today right?








[*/tongue in cheek]

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[WatchYourStep 0]

I guess this is where I differ from some.

-When someone new comes to our DZ, I'll always head up and say hi.

-If I notice a newer jumper having problems with packing I'll go up and help. If I'm not on the ground another regular will go up and do it.

-If I take pictures of someone in the air, I almost always will offer to email them to them for free, I don't care if they pay for them or not.

-If I'm at a bigger DZ on a 3 or 4 way and see someone doing a solo I'll go offer to jump with them. I don't care if you only have 30 jumps I won't get mad if the dive doesn't go as planned.

-If someone asks for a copy of a jump. I tell them my camera is right there. Find the means to burn the jump off and you're welcome to it.

Remember guys the idea is to keep the younger/newer jumpers in the sport. I know sometimes we (I'm sure you ask for stuff every now and again I know I do) get asked to do stuff for free or with a small fee. Instead of thinking about the immediate dollar imagine the overall payback not only to yourself but to the sport as a whole.

If you do that one small thing (dub a video, install slinks, hook up a main) you may not get anything out of it, but it may show that newer jumper what some veteran jumpers will do for new jumpers and in turn they'll return the favor.

We can look at it as "there is a cost for everything" or we can look at it as a "give and take system". I prefer the give and take, but then again I'm a pretty upbeat person.

If anyone out there sees me at a DZ and needs help packing or a main hooked up let me know I'd be more then happy to show you.

PS: And when I go to a new DZ I don't expect people to drop what they are doing and introduce themselves to me. I'm pretty outgoing and don't have a big problem going up to a random jumper and introducing myself and trying to get on a load.

Edited to change most to some.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[piisfish 135]

Quote

If anyone out there sees me at a DZ and needs help packing let me know I'd be more then happy to show you..

can you help me packing my tandem like 6 times a day ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[illusioneer 0]

I don't think many divers have a problem helping anyone who needs a hand or advice, but the problem is a lack of manners and respect from others.
If someone makes an income from taking photos or video I make sure to offer to pay or trade in return for any effort on the part of the other person. It is then an option for them to offer a "no problem" or "no charge" as they see fit.
I am always helping others with all sorts of tasks and with nothing in return expected, but what makes all the difference is when they give me the chance to say "no problem/charge, I'm glad to help"

[Unstable 8]

Here Here Watchyourstep.

I agree completly, the Idea is to have people join the sport.


I'll be honest, I've never heard of somebody PAYING $100 to learn to pack! I teach packing lessons all the time...almost everyweekend.

Sunny has a good point though - If somebody came up to me and dropped their rig in front of me and wanted "help" packing, I'd probably tell them to go get lost. It's all in the attitude. I've found that by helping out and doing more for others usually come around in more for me some way or another...

=========Shaun ==========

[riggerrob 558]

Ass, gas or grass, I don't rig for free!

[laughn_gas 0]

I'm new to the sport. I'm the guy who has 30 jumps, and knows just enough to be dangerous.

I expected, after I got off of student status, people would just be lining up to jump with me. That is not the case.
I don't mind jumping by myself, although, I would rather be jumping with others. Ultimately, I'm doing this for myself. I know over time, as I get to know other people, and they get to know me, things will come together as far as forming friendships in the sport.

The whole "There is a cost for everything" view.......
Yes there is a cost for everything. The people that want money are full of shit, and are just trying to take advantage of a struggling person who wants to learn. And there is no difference between them and some CEO fucking over the good ol' employee. But the guy who comes up to you and offers his help because he has noticed you are struggling, and expects nothing in return is going to be the true friend. And trust me that will be the one who has the most reward out of all of this.

I think that most of us forget how we struggled to get the money to do what we love. And when we were pursuing it, money didn't matter. How uncomfortable it is being the new guy on the block. Knowing you only have the BASIC knowledge and experience to save your own life.

When I do gain the experience and knowledge, I want to share it. Not for money, not to make myself feel good. But to maybe someday save someones life and not just my own. You can't put a $ on that!

See ya in a minute. Peace out!

[BerryBoy 0]

Quote

Here Here Watchyourstep.

I agree completly, the Idea is to have people join the sport.

You know, I'll say that it is really encouraging to know that there are helpful experienced jumpers out there that would like to help people like me out when I begin my training. And, as much as I have enjoyed the little skydiving I have done so far, it's still a whole new learning experience and I can use all the advice that any jumper is willing to offer me...free or not.

I certainly don't expect every helping-hand I may get in the near future to be free. I have little patience for moochers myself...but I totally agree that attitude and the way people approach you or ask for your help is probably what should be what counts the most (in my opinion). Of course there will be exceptions to this, but I think you understand what I generally mean.

Most people responding to this thread really seem like great people and I hope that I later run into similar jumpers like you guys when I begin my AFF in Spring next year. Knowing that there are decent people out there that want to see new jumpers join the sport, helps me know that I'll probably meet some great people out there. I hope that when I become experienced, I can give back by lending a helping hand when needed down the road.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents...

[Andrewwhyte 1]

There is a junior guy at our DZ. Sometimes I help him out with stuff. He is a mechanic. This week we traded cars so he could fix mine. I sure hope he doesn't want MONEY for the service. I mean, were all brothers right?