AFF Level 4 - Failed Twice

[dorbie 0]

Yup, relax.

As for legs, my instructor had a nice technique for teaching this. He got me lying on a creeper arching, and took a hand under each foot, next he got me to straighten my legs and as I did he pushed me along, then he told me to steer by adding pressure with my feet and steered me appropriately. Constantly monitoring the pressure I was applying through my legs with his hands and telling me "more! more!". Later we threw in a bit of arms & dearch. It prepared me well for my dive.

If all you're doing on the ground is arching you're actually applying the opposite muscle you need for leg extensions, so getting some resistance under your legs and pushing against it may help develop some muscle memory before you try it in freefall. Having the turn input based on what the instructor was feeling I was doing was invaluable.

[Randy_H 0]

Thanks dorbie, I will be leaving for DeLand in a few minutes to try it again. I will ask my instructor about what you said. Evey instructor is different and some are better teachers then others. I will keep eveyone posted about my latest attempt at level 4. I don't know if I will attempt it more then once, since I plan on passing it on my first attempt today. But since I am riding my motorcycle to DeLand, and there could be showers this afternoon, I might cut out early to beat the rain. Riding in the rain sucks.

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[Randy_H 0]

Well... I did my AFF Level 4 again today (Saturday 11/13/2004) and I was teamed up with the instructor I had on my first jump, the instructor who I scared pretty good. I didn't pass it again, but this time I got video of what I was doing. He said I should pass it on my next attempt and that I had made tremendous progress in maintaining stability! He also added that I didn't scare him once!

I jumped from the Porter instead of the Otter. Bad weather was coming into DeLand, lots of clouds and just as many rain bearing clouds. We went up in the Porter instead of the Otter because we could get to jump altitude much quicker. I wasn't scared at all on the exit and my arch was perfect. My leg awareness (thanks to all of you who posted tips on improving that) was MUCH, MUCH better and I was able to have a stable free fall with no wobbling. My only problem was unintentional turning. My instructor couldn't give me a clear reason on what was causing it. He said that I probably need to relax a little more and to stop performing everything like a robot. That I should "feel" the air and be one with the sky. I've got the Level 4 dive flow so programmed into my head that I am doing it in program-like steps. In the same way that a computer would execute code. He was very happy with the progress that I have made. Now if I could stop that unintentional turning. Any ideas on this. My arms seem to have good position and one side isn't dipping and my legs are even with each other so I don't think that I am accidently doing leg turns. Maybe relaxing a little bit more? I was very happy with this jump and enjoyed myself a lot more on it. I made a few more friends at the DZ which is always nice and I will be back in DeLand tomorrow to go up again and give it another shot! Any ideas on the turning?

Special greets out to Terrance from England, James from Sweden, Nikki from Iceland, and Nicolae from Norway, thanks for all the support at the DZ, you guys are great!

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[mattjw916 2]

Like you said, you probably still just need to relax a bit more... if an instructor said your motions were robotic then it's quite likely you were still very stiff in the air. Review the video of your jump and critique yourself, that's what I do.

Smooth and flowing is better than stiff and robotic.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Nightingale 0]

the more familiar you get with the freefall environment, the more comfortable you'll be, and with more comfort comes more relaxation, and you'll have more of your brain to think about what you're doing rather than thinking about being scared...hey, at least you didn't chicken out and ride the plane down like I did!

[LiveLifeGoJump 0]

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Now if I could stop that unintentional turning. Any ideas on this. My arms seem to have good position and one side isn't dipping and my legs are even with each other so I don't think that I am accidently doing leg turns.

The chances are that it IS your legs causing the turn. On my RAPS freefall dives I was turning, I could stop them with arm input but that meant that I was putting so much 'left turn input' I was unable to turn turn left & to turn right I just had to cancel my arm input (any right input spun me).
I had instructors follow me out as well as video men record my dive 4-5 times before the problem was spotted. They all said my arch was ok. I was on the last of the video dives (camera man flew up,down & around me recording me from all angles) that it was noticed the my right knee was ONE INCH lower that my left. Additional ground training was given with attention given to the legs (checking distance from both knees to the ground to make sure they were equal) to build up correct muscle memory. Next jump NO TURN.
I had to twist shoulders 30-40 degrees to get enough arm input just to counter the 1 inch knee drop.

On the dive remember BIG SMILE, RELAX & ENJOY IT, you'll be amazed just how much easier the arch will be and how much better the dive will go. The moment you tense up to correct the turn the harder it will be to stop it.

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

[Dizagirl 0]

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I cannot figure out why my position has been so good when jumping from the Skyvan but not the Porter or the Otter. On the ground, everything is rehearsed perfectly and I have no problems with body position.***

the plane itself shouldn't make a difference...its all the same once you're outside. im guessing it's the added stress of a new aircraft that's transferring into freefall. i jump at deland too, and i know the skyvan ROCKS but coming from a cessna dropzone im also a huge fan of the otter (not as much of the porter though, especially when it's crowded)...anyways my advice to you would be not to worry so much about passing the levels, but to focus more on enjoying yourself cause that's what it's all about anyways!

good luck, maybe i'll seeya out there next weekend!

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[Randy_H 0]

After watching the video from my latest attempt, it seems that my legs aren't spread far enough apart. My instructor said nothing about this. What kind of effect does this have on freefall? I notice in all of the other videos I watch, the skydivers have their legs spread apart farther then I am spreading mine. Just curious...

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[rower 0]

I just recently finished AFF and it took me about 12 jumps. My instructors never referred to things in terms of pass/fail, they simply checked off the items as I completed them, which made me feel a lot better about my progress. Objectively, I knew what level I was at and whether or not I had passed, but it still did a lot to help my ego.

[christelsabine 1]

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After watching the video from my latest attempt, it seems that my legs aren't spread far enough apart. My instructor said nothing about this. What kind of effect does this have on freefall? I notice in all of the other videos I watch, the skydivers have their legs spread apart farther then I am spreading mine. Just curious

Don not spend too much time thinking about of how your legs are spread apart. I am not the expert but, for the moment this is not your biggest problem you have to deal with. Just try to keep your legs not too short. On this, ask your instructor. He will help you. With your jump number, you cannot "feel" it right now. Take your time.

BTW: If you watch your jump videos: Your instructor is with you, I hope? Just ask him immediately, if you feel you need to. That's your best way to proceed. Ask him a big hole in his body. YOU want to learn, he will teach you all you need.

Good luck, Randy,
love to hear about next successful jumps

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[flyangel2 2]

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After watching the video from my latest attempt, it seems that my legs aren't spread far enough apart. My instructor said nothing about this. What kind of effect does this have on freefall? I notice in all of the other videos I watch, the skydivers have their legs spread apart farther then I am spreading mine. Just curious...

Without seeing the video it's hard to say if you legs are spread too much or too little. Are they bent at the knee? Or are they straight out?

I would suggest asking your instructor how she/he feels about it.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Randy_H 0]

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Without seeing the video it's hard to say if you legs are spread too much or too little. Are they bent at the knee? Or are they straight out?

They are slightly bent at the knee, but after reading "The Skydivers Handbook" several times, in particular the portions that talk about the boxman position, I am concerned that my feet are not spread out enough to be even with my elbows. My knees are slightly bent. I was just wondering if my legs aren't spread out far enough if this would cause any problems. My instructor my have overlooked this, I plan on discussing it with him on my next trip either this afternoon or tomorrow. I am wondering what the effects are of having legs closed together too much or spread apart too much.

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[Reginald 0]

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I was just wondering if my legs aren't spread out far enough if this would cause any problems. My instructor my have overlooked this, I plan on discussing it with him on my next trip either this afternoon or tomorrow. I am wondering what the effects are of having legs closed together too much or spread apart too much.

Dude,

You are WAY overthinking this! i bet you a buck your problem is not RELAXING enough.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[robertmicp 0]

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[Dude,

You are WAY overthinking this! i bet you a buck your problem is not RELAXING enough.

Yeah, have to agree with that. I had the same issues early on in AFF and my solo's. How did I correct it? RELAX!! and just have fun. As long you can get stable enough at pull time and land safly, thats great for our jump level.

my .02

"Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying who shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I, send me."

[Jeth 0]

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Well... I did my AFF Level 4 again today (Saturday 11/13/2004)


My only problem was unintentional turning. My instructor couldn't give me a clear reason on what was causing it. He said that I probably need to relax a little more and to stop performing everything like a robot. Any ideas on the turning?

Hey there,
I had problems with level 4, too. I failed it once because I was turning, and I lost track of alti and my instructor had to pull for me! My position was okay, but I just kept turning and couldn't get back around. I was trying so hard to turn back that I forgot to check my alitmeter.

On my next jump all I did was RELAX. Seriously, this makes such a huge difference. I took a huge breath, exhaled and let the wind just blow me into a good arch. It was amazing, but it was like POW! I was stable. I wasn't turning, I wasn't chipping, I was FLYING!!
Another thing I was doing -- over-analyzing everything. This was making me tense up when I didn't do it just right. I am always very hard on myself when I don't do the dive exactly right. But this just makes it worse, don't do this! Like everyone said, don't think of it as failing, its just another opportunity to learn!
After I "found my arch" (i.e. figured out how to truely relax), I never had another problem getting stable. You will get it. And, trust me, when you do you will feel like a million bucks!!!
Good luck and don't get too down on yourself!

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[Jeth 0]

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I was just wondering if my legs aren't spread out far enough if this would cause any problems. My instructor my have overlooked this, I plan on discussing it with him on my next trip either this afternoon or tomorrow. I am wondering what the effects are of having legs closed together too much or spread apart too much.

Dude,

You are WAY overthinking this! i bet you a buck your problem is not RELAXING enough.

Yes, Yes!! I did the same thing!! I thought my position had to be perfect to stop my turning. But once I got relaxed and stable I was actually waving and hi5-ing my instructor and none of that affected my stability. My legs always move a little bit in freefall, but it still doesn't cause me to turn.

Stop trying to analyze it, you just need to RELAX. Seriously, I know it sounds so simple, but its true! Just take a deep breath and exhale like if you just plopped down on the couch. It will work!!

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[Randy_H 0]

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Another thing I was doing -- over-analyzing everything.

Funny... that is what my instructor says I am doing. It seems the concensus is to just RELAX and it will come naturally.

Okay, I am going to give it another go on Saturday. I might even try for 10 minutes of tunnel time on Friday evening. I have been very hard on myself whenever I haven't passed. I did find out that every jump I make counts towards my A license so it isn't so bad! I am just going to enjoy myself, and have fun... The relaxing should then also come naturally.

Thanks for all the help everyone!! dropzone.com is great for getting support!

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[christelsabine 1]

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The relaxing should then also come naturally.

It will come, be sure.
Enjoy tunnel time but, don't work out too much.
You'll need enough of power next day for jumping.
Do not work too hard.

Wish you good luck,
Christel

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[flyangel2 2]

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I might even try for 10 minutes of tunnel time on Friday evening.

Did you contact my friend?

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[justaflygirl 0]

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Breathe and relax dude... your post was making ME tense just reading it.

ditto, I dont have a whole lot of advice, if any since I am relatively a new jumper myself at 57 jumps. Relaxation is the major thing tho... I can remember being nervous about jumping from a new plane for the first time, I started AFF exiting from a caravan, and mostly finished from a 182. I certainly remember how it strange it felt climbing out of the 182 for the first time...I prefer exiting larger planes over small planes still, but hanging from the wing of a cessna is one of my favorite exits.
I failed cat C like 3 or 4 times, I was very discouraged, and each time I felt more and more pressure to get it right. I stopped and took a break in the wind tunnel worked on "what I was doing wrong" after some time in the wind tunnel, i finsihed AFF and graduated w/ flying colors in no time. The wind tunnel, was a huge training aide and advantage for me. Good luck..

[LiveLifeGoJump 0]

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You are WAY overthinking this! i bet you a buck your problem is not RELAXING enough.

Like I said, BIG SMILE, RELAX & ENJOY IT, you'll be amazed just how much easier the arch will be and how much better the dive will go.

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

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Hey, you did not FAIL at the jump, you lived and had fun. You just did not meet the goals of that dive. Don't take it so hard. You mentioned that you may not be breathing in freefall. That was something that I did also. For me it was as simple as adding take a breath each time I looked at my altimiter. It just makes you more aware to do it. As with ANYTHING you hear or read, talk with your instructor before adding them to your training.

Just remember, what we are doing is unnatural, it takes a little while to get used to it. Work hard to do it correctly and safely; but, most of all have FUN.

Mega Dito to Brian's comment: You did NOT FAIL! I prefer to say that "I get to repeat a level or get to do it again"...you're gaining experience
Enjoy the learning process

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[Randy_H 0]

THANK YOU EVERYONE!

I passed Level 4 today! woohoo!

The DeLand DZ was REAL busy today! I only got to make two jumps today, because there was an extreme amount of people wanting to do tandem jumps (money in the bank for the DZ, which is understandable! ).

Not only did I pass level 4, but I NAILED level 5, at the level 5 post flight meeting with the instructor, the only thing he had to say to me was "excellent jump!". I asked him if there was anything I needed more work on and he thought about it for a minute and said that if he can think of something he will get back with me! I had perfect standup landings and no assistance approaches on both my level 4 and level 5 jumps today! On my level 5 jump, I did a solo exit with my instructor jumping a few seconds after I exited the skyrocket! Initially I kicked around a little bit but got stable really fast! It felt INCREDIBLE! I wanted to do my level 6 today but I couldn't manifest with an instructor, however, I've already made arangements to be on the very first manifest tomorrow for my level 6. Level 6 should be interesting, a nice diving exit, and backloops! I can't wait!! If I end up on my back like a turtle, ARCH hard and over I come. Or I can barrel roll out of it. No worries, everything has fallen into place!
I now know what eveyone means by RELAX, RELAX, RELAX! It all falls into place! Don't over analyze and eveything will work out! Everyone of your voices has helped my jumping psyche greatly and for that, I thank you all!! I will let you know how I did on my Level 6 and possible level 7 graduation dive tomorrow!

One happy student skydiver!
Randy

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[tdog 0]

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I passed Level 4 today! woohoo!

CONGRATS...

[skylord 1]

Randy,

Congratulations! Dammit, I am downright proud of you!! I'm in the process of re-habbing a shoulder after rotator cuff surgery, and I look forward to getting up in the air again. I'm going to test fly in the tunnel, and if it all goes well I'm off and running again!

You really capture the essence of your skydives from your perspective very, very well. As a couple of people pointed out, you did it so well I know I was on the edge of my seat just reading about it.

I think most of us newbies go through the anxiety you wrote about. I will say that on my AFF-7 jump, I did tumble the exit just a bit, and like you said, the recovery was quick and automatic. But my shoulder was hurting worse and worse after every jump.

So, go get 'em, jump aggressive, jump safe, and jump relaxed. And get ready to give me the same advice!!

Bob

Bob Marks

"-when you leave the airplane its all wrong til it goes right, its a whole different mindset, this is why you have system redundancy." Mattaman