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calphoto 0
Hello Andrew!
My apologies, yes I was addressing my remarks to dluv16, but thankyou for your insights into the subject too. You appear to be one of those (many) enlightened Skydivers who respect their pilots. It is not always so, and dealing with skygods is a part of the job at some DZ's.
To be fair, some pilots should not be flying skydivers either. It's all about mutual respect.
If a pilot can find a DZ to fly for for a summer, he/she will get a heck of a lot of good flying, filled with challenge, and demanding fast thinking. It may only be from Point A to Point A, but it is still a continual challenge, to fly that perfect jump run: Good takeoff, smooth efficient climb, nailing the spot, controlled, swift decent, greaser of a landing and shaving twenty seconds off of your last run.
And the beer is colder and more satisfying when a happy jumper buys one for the pilot.
I am sure that dluv has looked at the employment section here in the DROPZONE.COM classifieds. I see one or two interesting positions there, but he will have to relocate, and probably spend the summer living in a camper. I've done it. It was great. Other pilot-employment web sites are AVIANATION.COM AND CLIMBTO350.COM. They will occaisionally list jobs requiring low times, like traffic spotter, banner tow, or instructor. Like I said, right place, right time.
BTW, Thanks John for your kudos. I remember the day well. It is not every day that a Jump Pilot gets to show his landing skills to a group of jumpers from INSIDE the plane. Wish I could have shown them a REAL decent in an Otter, but of course we had to worry about the Cypresses, AND the Tandems, and ears of course...
My apologies, yes I was addressing my remarks to dluv16, but thankyou for your insights into the subject too. You appear to be one of those (many) enlightened Skydivers who respect their pilots. It is not always so, and dealing with skygods is a part of the job at some DZ's.
To be fair, some pilots should not be flying skydivers either. It's all about mutual respect.
If a pilot can find a DZ to fly for for a summer, he/she will get a heck of a lot of good flying, filled with challenge, and demanding fast thinking. It may only be from Point A to Point A, but it is still a continual challenge, to fly that perfect jump run: Good takeoff, smooth efficient climb, nailing the spot, controlled, swift decent, greaser of a landing and shaving twenty seconds off of your last run.
And the beer is colder and more satisfying when a happy jumper buys one for the pilot.
I am sure that dluv has looked at the employment section here in the DROPZONE.COM classifieds. I see one or two interesting positions there, but he will have to relocate, and probably spend the summer living in a camper. I've done it. It was great. Other pilot-employment web sites are AVIANATION.COM AND CLIMBTO350.COM. They will occaisionally list jobs requiring low times, like traffic spotter, banner tow, or instructor. Like I said, right place, right time.
BTW, Thanks John for your kudos. I remember the day well. It is not every day that a Jump Pilot gets to show his landing skills to a group of jumpers from INSIDE the plane. Wish I could have shown them a REAL decent in an Otter, but of course we had to worry about the Cypresses, AND the Tandems, and ears of course...
Hartwood Paracenter - The closest DZ to DC!
QuoteEasy for you to say now that you have your ATP.
Were you born to a wealthy family or did you have to struggle for your hours? Do you think it's maybe tougher in today's environment?
We just found out one of our Cessna pilots would not be back. He is moving on and has a job flying Multi-IFR. He took a cut in pay,... from a drop zone,... he gets less than a drop zone Cessna pilot! Man, thats tough.
I think for you to extol the virtues of holding the line to a 300hr pilot is not realistic.
Dude, I've been homeless living in a tent (not a trailer) on the DZ packing parachutes for a living. I think I know what struggle is. And not ONCE did I fly for free. Tougher today? I came out of school in 1992. Eastern, Braniff, Pan Am had all gone under. How many airlines have folded recently? Please. I think I know a thing or two about this friggin industry. You don't know a thing about me though.
edited cuz I can't spall "two" correctly tonight.
Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125
You know what? It's attitudes like yours that made it hard for me to get paid what I should be paid while flying jumpers. Suggesting to other pilots to fly for free just because others are doing it doesn't make it right. How much flying time do you have? You trying to make a career out of flying? No? Then maybe you should let those of us IN the industry make the call as to what proper compensation is.
And high strung? Man, maybe my post was a bit tongue in cheek and JUST A JOKE TOO. Yes, it's an over exaggerated reaction to the topic. Man, why don't YOU take the chill pill and get a sense of humor.
And high strung? Man, maybe my post was a bit tongue in cheek and JUST A JOKE TOO. Yes, it's an over exaggerated reaction to the topic. Man, why don't YOU take the chill pill and get a sense of humor.
velvetjo 0
Any chance we could just append this thread to one of the many pay-for-training threads on flightinfo.com?
Lance
Lance
What is a good situation for one, is not always the same for another. I know pilots that would love FREE hours in their logbook, which can help them to build a career. I also know some engineers that would have loved FREE university tuition.
Nothing in this world is free. That plane is owned by someone who has paid good money for it (not the pilot). That gas is paid for by someone. The maintenance is paid for by someone. Those hours in the pilots logbook are paid for by someone. That leads me to believe that yes, even if you are flying for free, if you are doing it with the intention of using those hours on your resume (somewhat like the engineer and his G.P.A), you are being compensated for your time and effort.
If an experienced pilot doesn't like the amount of compensation for what they do then maybe they should do something else. Or... get more hours and get a better job. I happen to believe that the upper echelon (sp?) of pilots get paid MUCH MORE than enough for what they do. However, said pilot has no right whatsoever to blame a brand new pilot who flies for free to get hours, for his rate of compensation. If that were the case I think that I should get paid for skydiving NOW, because someday I might become a TI, or a video flyer. Damn those people who skydive for free because they can! Damn those people even more who pay to skydive! Damn those pilots who have to pay to rent planes because they can't get a job because they have no hours.
My two cents.
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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson
Nothing in this world is free. That plane is owned by someone who has paid good money for it (not the pilot). That gas is paid for by someone. The maintenance is paid for by someone. Those hours in the pilots logbook are paid for by someone. That leads me to believe that yes, even if you are flying for free, if you are doing it with the intention of using those hours on your resume (somewhat like the engineer and his G.P.A), you are being compensated for your time and effort.
If an experienced pilot doesn't like the amount of compensation for what they do then maybe they should do something else. Or... get more hours and get a better job. I happen to believe that the upper echelon (sp?) of pilots get paid MUCH MORE than enough for what they do. However, said pilot has no right whatsoever to blame a brand new pilot who flies for free to get hours, for his rate of compensation. If that were the case I think that I should get paid for skydiving NOW, because someday I might become a TI, or a video flyer. Damn those people who skydive for free because they can! Damn those people even more who pay to skydive! Damn those pilots who have to pay to rent planes because they can't get a job because they have no hours.
My two cents.
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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson
I take it you are addressing those remarks and best wishes to dluv16, not me. I am not a pilot.
Tim,
I seems apparent that you have always jumped at SDC or another large facility. The fellow looking to start his career is not going to be flying a twin otter or King Air; he wants to fly a Cessna 182. Now some DZs have pilots who fly many planes including a 182, but those places hire and pay based on the hardest aircraft in the fleet. There are still many DZs out there that only have a 182. Keeping in mind that there are a maximum of four paying passengers on board, how much money is there to pay the pilot? Not much.
Here in Pitt Meadows we hire a full time Cessna pilot for the summer. Usually that person is in the 300-400hr range. We have on one occasion had our pilot get her commercial license with 200hrs days before she started work. (For those of you who know her, Annie Lagieux recently was promoted to captain and is flying King Air for Ken Borak Air in the Canadian arctic.) They get paid about the same as a Starbucks employee on a salary and then are worked dawn to dusk. For that privilege there are hundreds of applications; there are exactly zero applications with 2000hrs on them. Why do they do it? Because we offer gold! 400 to 500 hrs of pilot in command time, and that more than anything else is what a junior pilot needs.
Pilots need a first job. Cessna jump pilots fly in exclusively VFR weather, in the daytime very close to a runway. This is as straightforward as a flying job gets.
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