catfishhunter 1 #1 December 13, 2004 Check the pictures. I will post the Video Later today. Lessons to be learned. One check your Gear. I have a Old Vector V-9 and the Hard Housing(sp) was exposed enough for someone to grab and rip out of the Tacking deploying my reserve Second Pay Attention to what you are Grabbing!!! 3rd it is REALLY COLD at 12.5K in December! And the chance of finding D-Bag and Pilot Chute is 0! Ok Video is posted herehttp://www.foto2cd.com/12k reserve.wmv It is kinda big because the guy who put it on disc has this thing about always adding music MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #2 December 13, 2004 Well, it looks like a nice opening aty least I hear about this happening now and again either a handel is pulled in a funnel ot a snag comming out the door... Does the video show anything happening on the exit earlier, i.e people grabbing in the wrong place for grips on exit? Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #3 December 13, 2004 1st- Glad your OK. 2nd- Have all the gear your jumping inspected for safety before you do these type of jumps with other people. Older gear doesn't have everything tucked in nice and neatly like the new style gear, and doing a harness hold may noy be suggested. 3rd- Atleast you reserve matches the SNOW on the mountains! Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #4 December 13, 2004 YIKES....any idea what caused it to deploy? -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 December 13, 2004 Quote YIKES....any idea what caused it to deploy? The pulling of the reserve handle. The guy on the left, looks like his hand was supposed to be on the harness or possibly leg gripper for exit and his hand moved down to hit the handle.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #6 December 13, 2004 Nope my handle was still there.Someone got hold of the hard housing and ripped it out of the tacking pulling the reserve pin. took a minute or two on the ground to figure out what the hell happened. I am having it tacked and covered so no way for it to be grabbed/snagged again... MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #7 December 13, 2004 Where was this jump at? The mountains look great !! How long of a reserve ride? and did you land out? thanx wallysmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 December 13, 2004 Quote Nope my handle was still there.Someone got hold of the hard housing and ripped it out of the tacking pulling the reserve pin Amazing! On the video it looked a lot like that guy yoinked your handle. Any other damage to the rig?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #9 December 13, 2004 Man, there’s a lot going on there in the video. The rear float has his main flap open and it looks like there is something flapping around on your rig too. Just looking at the video I don’t know that someone pulling on your housing was the problem. The video makes it look like the reserve had a problem before you launched. You can see it flapping back behind you when you are setting up in the door! Man oh man, is this video ever a cautionary tail about gear checks!"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #10 December 13, 2004 PS: Glad everyone is okay!"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #11 December 13, 2004 Ogden, It felt like I was up there forever. I think they said 20 minutes before I got back(felt like forever to me). I didn't land out but thought I was going to. I was stuck over downtown Ogden from 11K to 3.5 before I started any forward motion. I had turned a coupel times looking for my freebag and realized with each turn I was getting farther and farther from the dz so I stopped that shit right away and headed into the wind. I wasn't going anywhere but I know I could make it to several different outs from where I was even if I didn't move forward another inch. and to answer Daves question no other damage was noticed but Brian is putting my rig back together he happened to have a V-9 rig stored amongst his stuff so I didn't have to buy a new reserve pilot/deployment bag. He is going to re-tack and check my rig out so if there is anything else I am sure he wil let me know and fix it... MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #12 December 13, 2004 I've looked at your video, and here's what I see: 1. You guys have got open flaps, riser covers and all kinds of SH** just a flappin' in the breeze out there!! ...Even on the newer, more "modern" gear!! CHECK/SECURE YOUR SH** PRIOR TO CLIMB-OUT! The dude with the Jav on rear float has got his main pin-cover flap TOTALLY OPEN. Front floater has at least right riser covers open; and again, in general it just looks like you've got a LOT (and not just your older Vector) UNSECURED gear flapping about out there. I know the immediate response to this is probably "but that stuff with these guys particular gear opens up all the time"... and here's my response to that: THEN GET THIS STUFF CHECKED OUT/ADJUSTED, and/or "FIXED" SO THAT IT WORKS AS DESIGNED/CORRECTLY! Main pin protection/covers, flaps (yes including "just" riser covers) etc. ARE THERE FOR A REASON, and they should work! If they don't, then FIX 'EM! And if it is instead that there was no prior-to-exit even at least cursory gear check ...then SHAME ON YOU! This was a potential multiple incident event just waiting to happen, and each of you should count yourselves as lucky that a worse outcome as a result did not occur. Your pictures here (and vid especially) are worth a thousand words in testament to that! Please people, becoming lax/complacent with your gear is link #1 in a potential chain of events which can indeed catch up to you. Glad that this event turned out relatively "alright" for all involved. -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #13 December 13, 2004 Despite the gear issues, here is what I learned: The frame by frame is a wonderful example of how a reserve deploys and the freebag leaves. I think this video has a lot of training merit to it... If nothing else, it reminded me to consider the fact that any jumper's gear may "fire" at any time for any reason... I am glad you all are all safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fjd 0 #14 December 14, 2004 Quote CHECK/SECURE YOUR SH** PRIOR TO CLIMB-OUT! exactly!!!! there is no excuse for the main flap to be completely open like that during the climb out. especially the rear float with the newer Javelin with the tuck tab. as you get ready for the climb out, get a pin check. if you don't want a pin check or no one is around that you trust to do it for you, then get in the habit of reaching back and at least make sure that the main flap is secure. i do this multiple times after getting up off the floor/bench of the plane, along with checking/touching all of the handles in the order that they would need to be pulled. this little incident could have easily turned into a much more serious variety. glad you all are OK. =============== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #15 December 14, 2004 Quotethere is no excuse for the main flap to be completely open like that during the climb out. Yes there is. Its called a flap opening during climbout. If you look carefully, its not open when he gets out, then the camera does to the right a bit and when we see the RF again, his flap is opened. The same climbout with a gear check would have probably done the same thing (assuming there was no gear check). Climb out puts stress on the rig that it doesnt see later in the jump: we bend in funny ways to get out the door.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #16 December 15, 2004 I laughed when I saw it was an Odyssey flapping away. I see Jav and Jav Odyssey flaps open more than any other rig out there. Love the way they look, hate the way they blow open. If a rig can't handle the climbout there is something wrong with it. No jumpships have exit speeds the like of freeflying, and unless you are doing some particularly funky exit, there should be no more strain on the rig than there is doing a front loop or roll. As a cameraman, if I see shit like this on climbout, I make sure to keep my horizontal distance in freefall. Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #17 December 15, 2004 QuoteYes there is. Its called a flap opening during climbout. And I contend that this is a problem then, and an issue! If this is something that "just happens" with this, it needs to be looked into and CORRECTED! You have just portrayed for me here EXACTLY the type of complacency/apathy that concerns me greatly in regards to this. FLAPS SHOULD NOT JUST ROUTINELY COME OPEN UPON OTHERWISE "NORMAL" (which this one pretty much was ...as best as I can see) CLIMB OUT! If it does, then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT/FIX IT! DO NOT BE COMPLACENT ABOUT IT!! Even "older" (the vector for example) gear can be either retrofitted, or oven just minorly adjusted so as to be reasonably secure. THERE IS NO EXCUSE for this! IMHO. -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #18 December 15, 2004 Wow... I'm glad whatever it was happened AFTER you cleared the plane, FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #19 December 15, 2004 Quote THERE IS NO EXCUSE for this! Did I say there is an excuse? I said there is a reason. A pretty commun one too. I agree flap shouldnt come open, but its to some degree why there are flaps: so that they can take some abuse instead of what they are protecting. I think like you, I've seen various flaps open on pretty much all the rigs out there. Is it right? no. Is it an imminant danger? I dont feel it is if you are aware of it. Would you stop turning points in a 8 way if a main flap was opened?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #20 December 15, 2004 QuoteWould you stop turning points in a 8 way if a main flap was opened? No, but if this consistently happened to the same persons rig/particular gear, rather than just fluff it off as "it always happens anyway ---no big deal", I would get it checked out and FIXED. My concern is that too many people look at this just a little too complacently is all. I think we are both on the same page over this. THANKS! -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #21 December 16, 2004 QuoteI think we are both on the same page over this. I'd agree!Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #22 December 17, 2004 Ok think I will chime in now. Yes my riser cover was open in the video. Yes I knew the Velcro needed replaced months ago. Actually it was supposse to have tuck tabs put on before thanksgiving but my rigger hadn't got around to it as I wasn't able to get to the dz for nearly 6 weeks. He was going to take it home that friday but decided to wait as saturday was going to be a beautiful day and he knew I was coming out to jump so he left it at the dz for me to Jump Saturday then take it home and make the mods Sunday. I only fly belly and no one thought it would be a issue to jump it like it was for one more day. It is all fixed now. Tuck Tabs for riser covers new Main Flap Tab, Tacked and covered hard Housing. As I said when I started this thread "Check Your Gear" Thank you for repeating that several times. If the riggers at the dz had ever said my gear wasn't safe I wouldn't have jumped it. The riser covers and main flap where asked about and I was told as long as I was on my belly it wasn't a big deal but I should get it fixed and it is fixed... thanks again :) Be Safe MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #23 December 17, 2004 QuoteIf the riggers at the dz had ever said my gear wasn't safe I wouldn't have jumped it. The riser covers and main flap where asked about and I was told as long as I was on my belly it wasn't a big deal but I should get it fixed and it is fixed... So do you think the incident was still caused by someone grabbing the hard housing? Is the person that told you your gear was safe as long as you were belly to earth (which IMHO is really bad advice) the same one that told you someone grabbed the hard housing to fire the reserve?"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #24 December 17, 2004 upon inspection of my rig after making it back to the dz. the conclusion was that my hard housing had been yanked from it's tacking. Pretty obvious not like someone assumed thats what happened it is WHAT HAPPENED. After studying the video though it looks to be a bad chain of events. As you can see the inside front float funnels upon exit I get big to try to stable the formation. He starts to swing under me pulling on my chest strap the front float looks to be grabbing/holding my harness. I believe he had ahold of my hard housing and as my chest strap is being yanked down "I BELIEVE" this is when the hard housing is pulled out fo the tacking and deploying my reserve. As for the velcro on my riser covers needing replaced this was already supposse to be fixed and known about but whatever risk it may have added I am comfortable with my decsion to jump with my gear. The main flap coming open? I am comfortable with that as well. Can anyone tell me of an incident because of the riser cover coming open? How about the main flap coming other then pin extraction while in the plane. I mean incidents while in the air belly to earth. I would like to know where these items have caused an incident in the air belly to earth? I am not saying these things shouldn't get fixed. But I made an informed decision based on the information from those I trust. those same people are the ones that suggested that instead of just replacing the velcro go ahead and convert to tuck tabs. I trust them and am not nor will not second guess my decision to jump with the exception of not realizing the hard housing was subject to this sort of incident.. Be Safe MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chopchop 0 #25 December 17, 2004 HEHEHEH.. that dude in white. he just was not gonna let go when that thing funneled, was he? chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
