What can we do about Skyride?

[teason 0]

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Get over it. They are a business. Look into the operation of your own home DZ and I'll bet you see some of the same practices.

Weak, very weak.
Theft, dear boy, theft. I don't recal ever stealing someones images and copyrighted material.

They use me personally and call me thier chief instructor on some of thier banners.

They use the logo that I designed and use it to promote thier bogus sites. I designed, not stole, designed it. Spent time on, revised, redid, I have several versions and the process took hours. It took them 2 seconds to steal it.

While you may be correct on your observation that the thread's title is presumptous, your "get over it" comment irks me just as bad because I was directly wronged by Skyride's actions. It's like saying if you don't like being screwed, use vasoline.

What is your beef with those who have legit greivances against Skyride and want honest dialog?

I don't get you.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[slotperfect 7]

Come on, guys . . .

If you have input to support the original post, then chime in. PLEASE make it in addition to what has already been said, not repeating the same stuff. This thread already has 1100 posts.

If you disagree, then fire away! Stay within the guidelines established in the forum rules. Your opposing opinion is welcome as well.

Now, if you simply want to tisk tisk others for having one opinion or the other, then simply pass on reading the thread and go find something else that interest you. To chide others for having an opinion has nothing to do with any of the multiple sides of the issue and does nothing but spin the thread around in larger circles than it already does.

Arrive Safely

John

[teason 0]

It seams that any strong points that get made seem to be buried so deep in the thread, no one can find them anymore. I think that's why you get a cyclical stream of posts.

First, someone posts that Skyride is just another business, that "we" should stop whining or that they don't understand what's wrong with what Skyride does.
Second, "we" all post on the tactics Skyride uses.
Third we start talking about the steps that have been taken against Skyride and it's owners and what we should do in the future. That goes on for a while until the the origional points on what they are doing gets buried.
Finally, someone reads the last 100 or so posts and joins the thread with the belief that Skyride is just another business, that "we" should stop whining or that they don't understand what's wrong with what Skyride does.

And the chain goes unbroken. That's the reason the same points are repeated over and over again.

I also get frustrated that I haven't seen a valid argument for Skyride. I know there are those out there that support them but I see more specious reasoning than valid arguements. That's why I get cranky.

Can we get a reader's digest version of this thread? Maybe Coles notes?

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Fuzzy 0]

I just received an email and Vender Agreement package from Skyride. They contacted me directly through the dropzone.com DZ listing (I mistakenly used my personal email address )

I have since contacted Greg Thomas, Director Of Vender Relations for Skyride "bitched" at him about this.

Apparantly they are moving into Canada. He aslo says that they (skyride) have cleaned up their marketing practices - something to do with complaints.

A msg has been sent to Sangiro about the same (not sure if he allows this sort of comercial use of his site or not, but just incase thought it wouldn't hurt to let him know.

Just curious if anyone else (especially Canadian DZ's) has received the same thing via the same way,through dropzone.com?

Fuzzy
Ambition / Ability: Know the difference.

[slotperfect 7]

To everyone: control yourself when you post. Opposing opinions are welcome here as long as they don't turn into a bashfest.

I am sick of seeing that happen here in this thread and I have no problem giving a break to those who ignore these simple requests.

Arrive Safely

John

[jlmiracle 7]

What did I do? I see my posts were deleted.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[slotperfect 7]

Quote

What did I do? I see my posts were deleted.

For everyone's information:

-I detached & removed some hate posts
-Unfortunately, some beneficial content went with it because the "legitimate" posts were as a reply to the incorrect poster.

There is no way for me to reinsert those posts into this thread.

I apologize to those who spent time and effort posting the beneficial content that was removed.

Edited to add: when you reply to a post, make sure you are replying to the person you are talking to, not just to the last post in the thread. That's what happened here.

Arrive Safely

John

[BillyVance 34]

I hope I'm not breaking any rules here, but here is SwampGod's post... It's good stuff that unfortunately got deleted...

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SwampGod's post:
I'm currently in a campground in Amarillo, Texas, heading west. The magical mystery of wireless internet allows me to search the road ahead from the comfort of my very own trailer. So... looking for a place to skydive in New Mexico, without searching google or anything, I just typed in what came natrual (my mistake) and found:

http://www.skydivenewmexico.com/aircrafta.htm

I didn't realize there was an otter in New Mexico, so I was psyched. I hand't been able to jump since Mike Mullins Supah King Air...

Anywho, I just called the toll free number on the site simply looking for directions to their place. I have done this a number of times, from Carolina Sky Sports to the Oklahoma Skydiving Center, so I was confused when my request, "Yah, I'd like directions to your place," got me passed to "someone who handles that district," and 3 different people. I finally realized I was calling somewhere OTHER than a real drop zone when they told me the closest place I could jump was in Arizona.

I've tried to stay out of the SkyRide mess, ducking for cover as we drove through Georgia (people, this in-fighting is a poison for our sport). But I realized I wasn't able to duck it anymore, and had unwittingly called a SkyRide number when I couldn't get a straight answer out of them...

I was confused... "So... Arizona, eh? Then what's this website I'm looking at?"

The response -- "That's one of our sites, but we don't have them on our network at this time."

"Oh... so you simply haven't gotten around to taking the site down yet."

"Yes."

"Ok... what's your webmaster's e-mail, cause I'm sure he'd like to know."

I've offered this to a number of companies. Typically customer service reps don't have the time or desire to work out website issues... and as a webmaster myself, I've always appreciated being told about broken links, etc. All I got was silence.

"Hello?" I wanted to see if anyone was still there.

"Yes." The tense reply.

"Who should I contact about this?"

More silence.

I continued. "I'm sorry, I didn't get your name... I know I talked to both a Bruce and an Andre...."

"That's right."

"So which one are you?"

"I'm extension 3--" <-- sorry, I don't remember the extension.

"Right... but what's your name? I'm just trying to help out here, man."

Silence.

I tried again, "Hello??? My connection must suck, because I didn't hear what you said."

I finally got his name.... I finally figured out I wasn't going to be able to find directions to the Otter DZ in New Mexico... and I'm now no closer than when I started.

I'm not saying anything is getting better, worse... whatever. I've just never had such a frustrating time finding information on the internet, ESPECIALLY after I call and talk to a real person.

If I was searching for butterfly nets, I might not care... this hits a bit closer to home.

-eli


ps I finally found: http://www.skydivenm.net/.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[bbarnhouse 0]

Here is yet another customer that had a problem see post 128

[teason 0]

I was stunned stupid when they called me to be apart of the Skyride Team last year. I couldn't believe the gawl of trying to do business with Adventure Skydiving Steinbach when My site is the most blatant example of theft.
I told them who I was and about the website issue and they started back peddling saying that they had never heard of "Adventure Skydiving".

I then asked for contact information of thier owners and they wouldn't give it out.

Talk about calling the wrong DZ!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[slug 1]

Hi Teason

Don't sweat the nay sayer It's just a diversion.

In a previous post the same dude said if someone has a problem with Skyride "contact the BBB" .

Get the picture Your better off debateing with a head of lettuce

The BBB thats

R.I.P.

[tailspin 0]

For several years we've struggled to find a way to stop 1800SKYRIDES' deceptive and probably unlawful business practices. These scumbags apparently have expanded from skydiving into other forms of air sports. We offer biplane sightseeing, air combat, and warbird flights from CRQ, about 30 minutes north of San Diego and they've begun to impact our business too.

My first exposure to them came when I discovered a picture from our Web site (http://www.barnstorming.com) listed in Google with a link to another site. Yup, you guessed it, 1800SKYRIDE. A quick perusal of the site showed that they were using a bunch of our pictures and had also lifted alot of text from our site word for word.

Our initial reaction was to simply call and ask that they be removed. But our first interaction with them was so weird we were convinced they were up to something a lot worse than stealing copyrighted material. Sure enough, a quick web search revealed a host of complaints from people and DZs that had been ripped off.

After trying to use WHOIS to find out who owned their Web site--and finding out that it apparently had been registered in the name of an apparently oblivious and innocent consulting firm--I called back and indicated I owned a flying business and wanted to talk to their president or owner. Several days passed until someone called saying she was returning my call. I asked if she was the owner or president and she said no she worked in customer service. I told her I wanted to talk to her boss and she demanded to know why. I said it was concerning our businesses and when I refused to be more explicit she became abusive. I politely explained that what I wanted to discuss was none of her business and repeated my request to talk to the owner. She hung up on me.

We talked with a lawyer about options and he basically said how much are you losing and what are you willing to spend to fix it? The former is hard to quantify and the latter, of course is as little as possible since we run on as narrow margins as y'all do, I'm sure. He said to just stop worrying about it then. But I'm still pissed off by the fact that another company is using pictures I took, words I wrote, and even pictures of me, to promote their business--which is in competition with ours.

The most recent encountered occurred a few months ago when some gal waltzed into the office asking to talk to the owner, offering to sign us up as an "approved provider" for their service. When we heard 1800SKYRIDE we snapped and ran her out on a rail. In retrospect we'd have been smarter to play it cool and get as much information as possible, but hindsight is 20-20.

One solution we've considered is to create a legitimate competitor that fights them in the marketplace by doing what they do better...and honestly. The only other solution is through the USPA, AOPA, EAA, etc. but the response from AOPA and EAA have so far been unsatisfying. Perhaps if more people complained to them?

In summary, much like this thread, we started out pissed, we can't find a solution, and we remain pissed. But count us in if anyone can figure out a way to stop their deceptive and dishonest practices. Meanwhile I've filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commmission at http://www.ftc.gov and have emails in to AOPA and EAA (again).

[tailspin 0]

Received this reply from the FTC within 12 hours of submitting a complaint about 1800SKYRIDE:

Quote

Thank you for your recent correspondence. The Federal Trade Commission acts in the public interest to stop business practices that violate the laws it enforces. Letters from consumers and businesses are very important to the work of the Commission. They are often the first indication of a problem in the marketplace and may provide the initial evidence to begin an investigation. The Commission does not resolve individual complaints. The Commission can, however, act when it sees a pattern of possible violations developing. [Emphasis mine.]

The information you have provided will be recorded in our complaint retention system. This computerized system enables us to identify questionable business practices that are generating numerous complaints and may be in violation of the law.

Thank you for providing information that may be used to develop or support Commission enforcement initiatives.

Anyone with a stake in this issue can fill out the form at https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01.

Should only take about 5 minutes to fill out, less if you use your browser's autofill feature and copy/paste details of your complaint about 1800SKYRIDE from an old email or forum post.

[dropzonefool 0]

Anyone with a stake in this issue can fill out the form at https://rn.ftc.gov/...rtup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01. <<<<<<<<<<<<<


This should be made sticky!

[slotperfect 7]

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This should be made sticky!

With over 49000 views and 1100 posts, I reckon it gets enough regular attention without being stuck to the top.

Arrive Safely

John

[Greene 0]

I think you you are wrong.

It should be made a sticky because of the massive responses to this thread.

Many "bumps" in regards this thread speakes for itself.

[sundevil777 93]

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With over 49000 views and 1100 posts

That is why I am so surprised that the idea of listing the DZs that are affiliated with skyride is not accepted.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Greene 0]

For some reason they are NOT being listed.

Here is our NON listing for 1800skyride!!!

Skydive Greene County, Xenia Ohio is not nor have ever been affiliated with 1-800-skyride!! And, furthermore, are proud to claim we turned them down, no matter what they are now "calling" their buisness NAMES.

Many, many calls, all turned down.

Very proud to marked SGC as doing business as Skydive Greene County since 1961, same ACTUAL location, address and phone number.

Located near Dayton, Cincinnati and Columbus, Ohio

Do not confuse us with skydive cincinnati.com (skyride) or skydivedayton, :(

Yep there are others out there :(

SGC

[wmw999 2,116]

oops -- it was already a reply...

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[bbarnhouse 0]

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What can we do about Skyride?

How about reading what Skydiving has to say in the May 2005 issue! Pages 30-32 & 35.

Wowza!

[sundevil777 93]

I don't have it.

Will you summarize? Please?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Will you summarize? Please?

Basically it states what most have been saying for a few years. Unethical with prhaps some illegal activities.
Investigations are underway in several states by the States Attny generals..
Skyride has said they aren't doing anything wrong, just aggressive marketing.
Umm (explain a virtual dz to me then!)
Some folks have paid near $500 for a tandem...Finley's continues battle. Skyride finally has agreed to take down his photos..only to replace them with other photos of his.
It ends by saying that thousands of people would never have skydived had it not been for Skyride. (Um I disagree. If they really wanted to skydive they would have found a place anyway)
Its just more of the same.

[tailspin 0]

Who is Finley? I'd like to find out how he managed to get them to take his photos down. They are using numerous pictures of our aircraft, word for word text I wrote, and even a photo of my wife and i flying that they use to compete dishonestly with us.

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Who is Finley

Brent Finely. You can see some of his work here in the featured photographer section.

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I'd like to find out how he managed to get them to take his photos down.

It took two years of phone calls,email and threat of litigation. It hasnt stopped them though, they've just traded out some of his photos the old for new ones.
They have used photos of a lot of drop zones aircraft, sponsored athletes and special events without permission.
Skyride has stated that they purchased the photos from a graphics source (no longer in business). Well my thought on that then if it is indeed true, is that they have recieved stolen goods.

[slug 1]

[replyIt ends by saying that thousands of people would never have skydived had it not been for Skyride. (Um I disagree. If they really wanted to skydive they would have found a place anyway)
Its just more of the same.