What can we do about Skyride?

[ianmdrennan 2]

Quote

ASC is a dropzone, not a reservation service.

True, but they are BOTH known to engage in deceptive business practices. There are plenty of things ASC has done outside of skyride.

As for the people, so far everyone I've ever met from ASC has been really cool. They're just jumpers like everwhere else, I don't think people have a problem with them at all.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[teason 0]

Maybe they phoned a bogus "Adventure Skydiving Center" The net is full of them. They all go to Skyride.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[MakeItHappen 15]

Pardon me, but your letter is as clear as mud as to what happened.

Did Sparks & gf actually get trained and do a jump at your DZ?

IF YES (
Did they
1. use payment already given to SkyRide
OR
2. changed payment directly to the DZ and stop payment on the SkyRide charge
OR
3. something else - please specify
?)

IF NO (
Did they try to stop payment on the SkyRide charge?
)

Being the ever 'check everything out' person that I am, is Mr. Sparks, Truman Sparks???

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[Eiley 0]

Also, if they paid by a major credit card (Visa or Mastercard), I don't know how it is in the US, but here in Australia, you simply dispute the charges. Visa/MC reverse it and it is up to the vendor to prove the charges were legitimate. (Of course, if so proved, you not only get re-charged but also have to pay a fee for wasting their time).

I would think that skyride wouldn't be too keen to have their fraudulent activities exposed and so would be unlikely to fight the reversal.

nothing to see here

[WFFC 1]

Quote

Just to clarify, when you call skyride, you don't get ASC, you get a reservation sevice... ASC is a dropzone, not a reservation service. Many people seem to have the two confused...

When you call skyride you get a division of xyz corp. When you call ASC, you also get a division of xyz corp also. It's all under the same umbrella from a corporate side no matter how you slice it.

-----
~~~Michael

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Also, if they paid by a major credit card (Visa or Mastercard), I don't know how it is in the US, but here in Australia, you simply dispute the charges. Visa/MC reverse it and it is up to the vendor to prove the charges were legitimate. (Of course, if so proved, you not only get re-charged but also have to pay a fee for wasting their time).

In the US, it doesn't seem like the protection provided by paying with a credit card is nearly as good as consumers think it is.

[WFFC 1]

Quote

In the US, it doesn't seem like the protection provided by paying with a credit card is nearly as good as consumers think it is.

It really depends on the issuer. Never had any issues with the visas or mastercards I've had if something was disputed. Amex was the best though because they didn't want the details, they just took care of it.

-----
~~~Michael

[MakeItHappen 15]

SkyRide Story

The jumper lives in Altoona, IA

Driving Distance &Time to Owatonna, MN = 181.7 miles Approximate Travel Time: 2 hours 44 mins

Des Moines Skydivers - 25 miles S of DM.
Skydive Iowa 70 miles E of DM

Altoona is 10 miles E of Des Moines.
………

From the story:

Quote

Resources:



Jump BOOKED for July 3rd 2004



Skydive Iowa 1922 US Hwy 6 Brooklyn IA. 52211 888-282-1788 Need to be 220lbs or less to jump

1st jump - up to 225lbs $179 1st jump - 226-240lbs $210

Hours of Operation We are open on weekends from March 1st. to December 1st. We skydive from 7:00 am to sunset Saturdays, Sundays and holidays. Call ahead for weekday jumping.

Minnesota Skydiving Center First Skydive Rates $165 tandem 1-800-516-5867

http://www.minnesotaskydiving.com/index.htm



SKYDIVE MINNEAPOLIS

1-612-435-6797 - Removed

Tandem = $165

877-440-0910 Removed

Booked for July 3rd

[snip]



From the South (Des Moines, IA)

Take I-35 North toward Owatonna, MN. The distance on I-35 from Des Moines, IA to Owatonna, MN is 175 miles. In Owatonna, take Exit 42 (U.S. Hwy 14, Hoffman Drive) and turn left onto U.S. Hwy 14. Continue on U.S. Highway 14 through Waseca until Waseca County Road 2. From here you can follow the airport signs. Turn left onto CR-2 and follow it to County Road 27 (0.8 mi). Turn left onto CR-27. The airport will be right ahead (0.5 mi). Turn right into the airport.

[snip]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 10:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Thank you for your order!

Skipjack - Secure Internet Commerce (http://www.skipjack.com)

_________________________________________________________________

Thank you for your order! 1-800-SkyRide wishes you a wonderful experience that you will never forget. Whether you are going an adventurous ride, or you are giving the gift of a lifetime; you will have a thrilling experience. From the calming tranquility of a relaxing hot air balloon ride, to an exhilarating skydiving experience, 1-800-SkyRide is sure to provide anyone with an unforgettable adventure, and memories that will last a lifetime!

Remember, your order is valid at any of our locations nation wide for two years. 1-800-SkyRide is the nation’s leading provider of outdoor adventure sports. We offer Skydiving, Hot Air Balloon Rides, Hang Gliding, Paragliding, and Glider Rides.



Please call us to check availability for your next SkyRide.

1-800-759-7433



[email protected]



Enjoy!



Keep a copy of this in a safe place- it may be your only record of this transaction.

Transaction ID: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx

Order number: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Authorization Code: xxxxxx

Transaction Date: 062604

Name: Michael B McConnell

Address: xxx xxx Ave Ct NE

City: xxxxxxx

State: IA

Zip Code: xxxxx

Phone: 515xxxxxxx

E-mail: [email protected]

Comments: 1 tandem w/video.declined refund policy.062604bs

Authorization Response Message: Card authorized, exact address match with 5 digit zip code.

So did I follow this right???
Guy gets booked at Skydive Iowa (a real DZ) AND Skydive Minnesota (a SkyRide virtual DZ) AND SKYDIVEMINNEAPOLIS.com (a SkyRide virtual DZ). Then he gets directions to Minn. Skydivers Club(a real DZ)? $14 price difference for a 2.75 hr ride vs a 1 hr ride?

And the guy gets hurt too.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[jumpervali 1]

The tandem pair book with us. Then 2 days before the jump date they called to check the weather conditions and confirm again the jump. They accidentally called one of the ASC numbers that are part of their ASC's Internet proliferation attempt. The phone operator said yes this is Georgia Skydiving Center in Rome. Then took their credit card information and processed the charge. We the students came to our DZ they were trained for the jump and transactions were begun. Then it was discovered that the charge had been made by ASC. The jump was not made due this problem and Mr. Sparks requested a refund from them at that point. Later he call me to give him a letter to verify the problem. I called the number he had been given to make his claim to and it was being held by Skyride. He called ASC by accident but Skyride had the funds they are now linked through this transaction. ASC has done this 24 times this summer. Not until now was it discovered that Skyride ultimately is the account processing these deceptively gained appointment funds.

I hope this clears the mud.

jumpervali

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

The tandem pair book with us.

Does your DZ require a deposit?

Quote

Then 2 days before the jump date they called to check the weather conditions and confirm again the jump. They accidentally called one of the ASC numbers that are part of their ASC's Internet proliferation attempt.

So you are saying they 'probably' went to one of these sites:
skydivecenter.com
skydiverome.com
georgiaskydiving.com
or some other site that could easily be confused with your site of
georgiaskdivingcenter.com
and called the number on one of these SkyRide sites.

Quote

The phone operator said yes this is Georgia Skydiving Center in Rome.

Implicit in this is that the customer asked something equivalent to 'Is this Georgia Skydiving Center in Rome, GA?'.

The phone operator says ' yes it is.'

Quote

Then took their credit card information and processed the charge.

Did your customer get any sort of email confirmation or some sort of printed certificate?
What did the email or certificate say in regards to the location of the jump?

Now, my next question depends upon your answer to the deposit question.
If your DZ took a credit card deposit, then the customer would not have to charge the entire jump if they were lead astray by SkyRide/ASC.
If your DZ did not take a credit card deposit, then the customer would or could be lead to believe they HAD to make the payment right then (under the pressure of SkyRide operators).
So if a customer finds your DZ and wants to make a booking, do you require a deposit via a credit card? If you did, then this sort of mix-up (on the part of the customer) would be less likely.

Quote

We When the students came to our DZ they were trained for the jump and transactions were begun. Then it was discovered that the charge had been made by ASC. The jump was not made due this problem and Mr. Sparks requested a refund from them at that point.

Another way for your customer to dispute the charges is to demand a SIGNED receipt by contacting their credit card company. The credit card company will ask SkyRide or ASC or whatever shell company for a signed receipt. The company has x many days to produce a receipt. If they cannot, then the customer is not charged.

Quote

Later he call me to give him a letter to verify the problem. I called the number he had been given to make his claim to and it was being held by Skyride. He called ASC by accident but Skyride had the funds they are now linked through this transaction.

I just want to make sure by asking this question.
Do you or have you ever accepted SkyRide gift certificates?
[Please do not take offense. I realize that most of the Atlanta area DZs do not like ASC-SkyRide. I am only asking to make sure of the answer.]

Quote

ASC has done this 24 times this summer. Not until now was it discovered that Skyride ultimately is the account processing these deceptively gained appointment funds.

This is where I become confused again. If this was going on 24 times this summer, how did you get paid previously?


.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[slug 1]

HI

Complaining to the BBB


"• Some bureaus have been shut down because they failed to adhere to standards.

Earlier this year, for example, the CBBB expelled the Augusta, Ga., BBB because it repeatedly failed to comply with a majority of the 23 operating standards, including maintaining adequate membership, developing revenue and complaint-handling programs. "

Reference Seattle times 11/28/04

R.I.P.

[jumpervali 1]

"Does your DZ require a deposit? "
No, never have never will.

(So you are saying they 'probably' went to one of these sites:
skydivecenter.com
skydiverome.com
georgiaskydiving.com
or some other site that could easily be confused with your site of
georgiaskdivingcenter.com
and called the number on one of these SkyRide sites.)

It would seem so.

(Implicit in this is that the customer asked something equivalent to 'Is this Georgia Skydiving Center in Rome, GA?'. )

The phone operator says 'yes it is.'

I myself have called their number asking "is this Georgia Skydiving Center in Rome" and the operator said "yes it is" I replied that's funny this is Sandor Vali and I own Georgia Skydiving Center in Rome now let me speak to Ben or Cary. Their reply was "their busy at the moment can they call you back."

(So if a customer finds your DZ and wants to make a booking, do you require a deposit via a credit card? If you did, then this sort of mix-up (on the part of the customer) would be less likely.)

I never require a card deposit, and even reject an offer of one if given.

(Do you or have you ever accepted SkyRide gift certificates?)

I've never been contacted by skyride to see if I want to be part of the program. It might have something to do with the call I made to Cary Q. and the way I acted when he admitted to having his sticker man put their stickers on my gate and clubhouse.

(This is where I become confused again. If this was going on 24 times this summer, how did you get paid previously?)

I had a group of 15 students from UGA call and book, 1 day before the jumps I called the organizer to confirm the total again. He said 15 and then I was told some have prepaid and I should have their names. I then told him just to inform the rest of his group and transfer their plans to ASC and I hope they enjoy their jumps because they will be with good instructors even though their bosses do this type of stuff. Then a group of 5,2 and 2 were even given directions to ASC by me after their arrival at my DZ, an example of this is Mr. Sparks.

Why do I send them on their way to ASC? Because I don't want this sport to get the persona of a carnival where the customers opinion is that all the games are rigged and it's only about departing the patron from their money.

jumpervali

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

I've never been contacted by skyride to see if I want to be part of the program. It might have something to do with the call I made to Cary Q. and the way I acted when he admitted to having his sticker man put their stickers on my gate and clubhouse.

Unbelievable! I knew Cary would go so far as to set up signs and stickers as far west as Tuscaloosa, AL, but right on your gate and clubhouse?? Expletive deleted by slotperfect

Don't I remember something about the City of Alpharetta trying to charge him with something relating to the proliferation of his signs all over that city a year or so ago? Surely, after I confiscated nearly 100 of those signs across central Alabama (all of them illegally placed by the way) he's given up on that crusade.

One DZ has stopped accepting Skyride certificates... Good! Come on guys, let's see some more do the same!

Blue Skies
Billy

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[slotperfect 7]

A reminder to all . . .

Personal attacks are not allowed here in the forums - at all.

This applies to those who are currently posting to this thread, those who are involved with the businesses referred to in this thread, and those on any side of this issue.

Example of OK:

"Joe Bag-O-Donuts does A, B, and C, and should be ashamed of himself."

Example of not OK:

"Joe Bag-O-Donuts does A, B, and C, and should be ashamed of himself. He is a @#$%&*"

Nuff said.

Arrive Safely

John

[Greene 0]

There is a "new one on the block".

Just received a call from Georgia selling skydiving gift certificates from "The Skydiving Team".

Wanted to know if Skydive Greene County would like to participate in their new program.

I think not.

Lee

[JDBoston 0]

If anyone would like to make the fine folks at Google aware of specific examples of fraudulent Web related (linking, copying, hijacking, etc.) behavior by Skyride, with the goal of getting Google to blacklist their sites, the appropriate place to send those is:

[email protected]

My friend at Google tells me they are good about responding to emails sent there, and usually do so within a couple of weeks.

Enjoy.

Joe

[skydived19006 4]

I’m curious if people routinely contest the credit card charges made by Skyride. I see posts here saying that someone called Skyride thinking that they were calling another DZ (or a real DZ for that matter), and made a credit card payment thinking that they were paying someone else. If I’ve ever heard an argument for a credit charge dispute that would have to be one of the best!
What I’m getting at is if this is the case, why hasn’t their ability to clear credit cards been taken? I would think that with continuous “issues” whoever processes their transactions would have pulled the machine a long time ago. Is this not correct? If they can’t process credit card transactions they don’t do business.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[chopchop 0]

You are absolutely correct.. My business takes credit cards and for a while, we were processing charges using the corporate name as opposed to our marketing name.. Our clients did not recognize the company name and we were getting disputes like crazy.. We almost got dumped by our processor.. Not to mention the other problems it caused as our average charge is about $3,000 and range as high as $12,000.. but that's another story..

Given that, maybe a vast majority of their customers are satisfied with their experience.. or at least not upset enough to dispute the charges..

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[chutingstar 1]

Quote

What I’m getting at is if this is the case, why hasn’t their ability to clear credit cards been taken? I would think that with continuous “issues” whoever processes their transactions would have pulled the machine a long time ago. Is this not correct? If they can’t process credit card transactions they don’t do business.

Gee, maybe it's because the number of these "issues" are small and far inbetween compared to the number of happy and satisfied customers that do business with www.1800skyride.com.

Unhappy customers, issues with business operations and mistakes are a part of just about any business. Those that stay in business figure out how to minimize or eliminate those issues, increase customer satisfaction and correct mistakes. But don't let www.1800skyride.com in on that.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[WFFC 1]

Quote

Gee, maybe it's because the number of these "issues" are small and far inbetween compared to the number of happy and satisfied customers that do business with www.1800skyride.com.

Mike-
I do agree you on this one. Given the industry that this is in, it's very small. People in general think that skydivers are nutzoids anyway and aren't coherent enough to look into the business practices. What hurts the image is the inside looking out (skydivers looking at skyride) and the misleading practices that skyride practices. This hurts the industry as a whole in the long run. From the outside looking in, the skyride customer may not ever be the wiser of the inner workings of the business and it's true business practices of blatently providing misinformation to make a sale.

btw, personal experience:
Ring, Ring
Me: I'm looking to buy a tandem gift certificate, what is my nearest DZ?
Skyride: Let me see, well, there is this one and this one. Those are the closest centers to you.
Me: Ouch, one is 2 hours away and the other 3. What about that DZ that's 'here' (read 30 minutes from me).
Skyride: Let me check.
---hold white noise---
Skyride: There used to be a DZ there but someone died last year. The were involved in a lawsuit which they lost and then closed.
Me: Really? I just got off the phone with them to see what their prices were.
Skyride: Well, we're not sure who you talked to but be careful, as there is not a DZ in (xyz city) anymore.
Me: OK. Thanks for the info, I'll get back to you.
Skyride: Thanks for calling skyride...

[chutingstar 1]

Were you really looking for a gift certificate or just trying to see what you could get a Skyride operator to say when you pushed them to talk about a business that doesn't accept the certificates?

The people who work there deal with enough phone calls that they can tell the difference between a real customer looking to make that first skydive and an experienced skydiver digging for dirt. Do you think it's at all possible the operator may have known you weren't a real customer?

Regardless, if what you say is a word-for-word transcript of your phone call and the operator thought you were a real customer, then that's not cool. There is obviously a better way to sell the skydiver-to-be a first skydive and avoiding talk about dropzones not on the 1-800-SkyRide network. If those comments by the operator are true and the operator thought you were a real customer, talking about another dropzone in that way won't help sales or make the skydiver-to-be feel confident or safe about making a skydive...anywhere...and that operator won't make many sales and won't be working there long.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[marks 0]

Quote

Do you think it's at all possible the operator may have known you weren't a real customer?

most likely not. but there are alot of skydivers working for skyride.. im sure the person who answered the phone was just doing there job. the job they were tought to do.

and now im shutting my mouth.
you should too mike.

[JDBoston 0]

There were a lot of people at Tyco and Enron who were just doing what they were told too. They did such a good job of it that they got to go to jail.

There's no nobility or valid excuse in "just doing your job" when that job is LYING to people.

Joe

[firstime 0]

***
Mike-
I do agree you on this one. Given the industry that this is in, it's very small. People in general think that skydivers are nutzoids anyway and aren't coherent enough to look into the business practices. What hurts the image is the inside looking out (skydivers looking at skyride) and the misleading practices that skyride practices. This hurts the industry as a whole in the long run. From the outside looking in, the skyride customer may not ever be the wiser of the inner workings of the business and it's true business practices of blatently providing misinformation to make a sale.

btw, personal experience:
Ring, Ring
Me: I'm looking to buy a tandem gift certificate, what is my nearest DZ?
Skyride: Let me see, well, there is this one and this one. Those are the closest centers to you.
Me: Ouch, one is 2 hours away and the other 3. What about that DZ that's 'here' (read 30 minutes from me).
Skyride: Let me check.
---hold white noise---
Skyride: There used to be a DZ there but someone died last year. The were involved in a lawsuit which they lost and then closed.
Me: Really? I just got off the phone with them to see what their prices were.
Skyride: Well, we're not sure who you talked to but be careful, as there is not a DZ in (xyz city) anymore.
Me: OK. Thanks for the info, I'll get back to you.
Skyride: Thanks for calling skyride...


Read this twice Benny... if you need to

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

There were a lot of people at Tyco and Enron who were just doing what they were told too. They did such a good job of it that they got to go to jail.

Joe

That list includes Health South too.

Keep up the lying, and it's going to eventually come back and bite you in the butt.

Billy

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban