What can we do about Skyride?

[Levin 0]

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Ever been the friend of someone who speeds, or had a DUI, or has been to jail?

speeding is not the same. DUI doesn't count. I would never be guilty by association of a drunk driver because if someone is too drunk to drive I'm not getting in the car with them. Jail depends on what they went to jail for. If someone murders somebody and you know about and don't say anything then you are both going to jail. association.

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Why would you want to take food out of someones mouth that is working hard and doing no wrong.

that is exactly what SkyRide does. They take the food out of other people's mouths and grab a few crumbs for themselves while they are doing it. Since Spaceland accepts their certificates and Skydive Houston does not, anybody who calls SkyRide is informed that Spaceland is the only DZ in Houston. That is taking food out of SDH's mouth. I called these fuckers the other day to see what they were about for myself. They are dishonest and very elusive. And the fact that SkyRide is working very hard at it is the very reason why something has got to be done fast. SkyRide doesn't give a shit about skydivers or the industry. They care about one thing; money. That's why they are a PARASITE. And anybody that knowingly supports them whether it's Chuting Star Rigging Loft, Skydivegear.com, drawn2design.net, Atlanta Skydiving Center, the jumpers that jump there, and/or DZs that are accepting the certifcates are all part of a parasite support structure.

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Where ever you jump, stay there.

Don't worry. I don't get out of the state much. But I don't have to with such a great thing as dropzone.com to voice my opinion. I'll can you this. My DZ does not accept these parasitic certificates.

[diablopilot 2]

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Don't worry. I don't get out of the state much. But I don't have to with such a great thing as dropzone.com to voice my opinion. I'll can you this. My DZ does not accept these parasitic certificates.

My apologies.... I shouldn't be rash in my statements. I have no particular love of Skyride, nor do I dislike them particularly. I just see them and the businesses you've condemned to sink with them as people doing a job, and doing it better than others have before them. There have been some legal transgressions, yet rather than address those specific issues people seem to prefer the witch-hunt.

Chuting Star, while I've not done any business with them seems to be one of the largest, most informative, and full service lofts I've yet seen in this business. In fact I'd say they rival manufacturers, which is a good thing as they are more likely to be impartial about gear. I can't think of another loft quite as big.

In any event, as I have no stake in this, have repeated my views and advice a few times, and am not likely to be swayed by a mob without the light of some more factual evidence of wrong doing, I'm going to end my participation in this discussion.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[chopchop 0]

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I have no particular love of Skyride, nor do I dislike them particularly. I just see them and the businesses you've condemned to sink with them as people doing a job, and doing it better than others have before them. There have been some legal transgressions, yet rather than address those specific issues people seem to prefer the witch hunt.

Ditto.. but spell-checked..

Although not spelled very well, JP, very well put.

And there is some old saying in the back of my head when I read this thread.. something about "Don't hate the player, hate the game." Bottom line is while they may be bending some rules, they seem to be playing the game very well.. good on them. Flame away.

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[JDBoston 0]

Bottom line is while they may be bending some rules, they seem to be playing the game very well.. good on them. Flame away.
___________________________________________________

The game of lying, cheating, and stealing, you mean? Yeah, I really admire people who play that game well.

Kind of like the folks who call old ladies up and talk them into investing in BS stuff where they lose all their money. Someone might be able to run a business like that on the right side of the law, but they'd still be a edited by Slotperfect.

The practices described in this thread are NOT "good hard-nosed competition" - they're sneaky, deceptive, and wrong, and I think it's clear to everyone that they are not isolated incidents, but rather the MO of the people running the business. What part of that strikes you as worth defending?

Joe

[chopchop 0]

I am not defending their tactics. I don't think they should be as misleading as they are. But as JP said. if they used their own images, represented themselves as a resellerworking with contractors instead of trying to give the impression that the Skyride network of dropzones as all one company, and got rid of that skydive association page where they pretend to be an authority of some sort, I would have no prooblem at all with their business model.

As a business owner with multiple resellers making nice margins on my products and services, I don't look at my resellers at parasites as someone on here referred to Skyride, I look at them as my marketing partners. There is a cost to what these people provide. There are costs to setting up and maintaining websites, phone systems, having the phones answered by someone reasonably knowledgeable, other marketing to keep the phones ringing and keeping up with the paper generated. How is Skyride so different?

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[Levin 0]

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I just see them....as people doing a job, and doing it better than others have before them.

maybe it's a job they shouldn't be doing

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people seem to prefer the witch-hunt

technically since the witch has been identified the hunt is over. now it's just a matter of figuring out how to burn 'em at the stake.

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Chuting Star, while I've not done any business with them seems to be one of the largest, most informative, and full service lofts I've yet seen in this business. In fact I'd say they rival manufacturers,

while they may be knowledgable, a big business and perform great services for their customers that doesn't mean they have the best interest of the sport at heart. if they are so big and great then they shouldn't have any problem disassociating themselves from a parasite.

funny attachment but i disagree with that too. the internet allows for arguments that are all to often unproductive to become structured debates for a much larger audience.

[noctralucent 0]

My friends and Instructors at ASC are excellent bad ass skydivers they are always very helpful nice people. You can not assume that those of us fun jumpers here are somehow harmful to the sport of skydiving. Chuting Star Rigging loft is awsome you can't connect us fun fumpers and our rigger to this.

[Greene 0]

Nobody ever said they were not nice people.

No one ever said students and jumpers were not nice people.

What everyone is saying, we want them to advertise the DZ's THAT THEY OWN.!

Not advertise in areas they do not belong.

Check out some Ohio DZ's like, Cincinnati skydiving.com, Ind, Ill, Calif, Mich on and on and on.

Do a search on here for skyride.

Get informed NOW.

[slug 1]

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Nobody ever said they were not nice people.

No one ever said students and jumpers were not nice people.

What everyone is saying, we want them to advertise the DZ's THAT THEY OWN.!

Not advertise in areas they do not belong.

Check out some Ohio DZ's like, Cincinnati skydiving.com, Ind, Ill, Calif, Mich on and on and on.

Do a search on here for skyride.

Get informed NOW.

Hi Greene

The guy's got 12 jumps (approx) and you expect him to become informed he's to busy jumping for that stuff. He'll probably be gone before he does the research.

I'm guessing he's not driving a xtra 250 miles to drive past the local DZ's to jump with his friends. If he does the research you suggest maybe he'll find some new friends closer to where he lives.

R.I.P.

[mgerra28 0]

Yes i agree these tactics suck. I believe the owner of chuting star rigging, manages ASC. Maybe you should all call mike up there. I remember a guy calling from down here in Tallahassee asking if he was the closest Dropzone to Tallahassee and the DZ said yes and gave directions to get to Cedartown.

http://www.skydivethefarm.com
don't sweat the small stuff, in fact don't sweat at all,, you get smelly!!

ORFUN #2

[Sabre2th 0]

I jump at ASC, and use the rigging loft also. Chuting Star does an awsome job. I've never gotten the "we're just a buisness" vibe from them. Very nice people, and very good at what they do. Go after the real problem, that being Skyride. I don't like them either, but I don't go after everyone and everything that is "associated" with them. Besides, correct me if I'm wrong, but how does skyride benefit from the rigging loft? As far as I know, there is no connection between the two.

Nick.

Those who dance, are cosidered insane by those who can't hear the music.

[skydived19006 4]

The main reason (in my opinion) that Skyride gets as much business as they do is that they can afford a national paid sponsor presence on at least a few of the major search engines. I had thought that dropzone.com or USPA could become a paid sponsor on the search engines and act as a link site for drop zones (real not virtual/ghost). Problem is that this costs money and would have to be supported by the real drop zones across this greatest nation on earth! I’m not exactly sure how the DZOs could be convinced to “join” and pay their share of the related costs (and enough to afford a level of profit for Dropzone.com) if they were to take on the task. USPA would also be a logical entity to act as a middle man getting the customer directly to the real USPA group member drop zones. In order for USPA to support the idea they would again have to pass the cost along to the group members in the form of an increase in their dues. This is America and it’s a the free market, this would at least help to get the customer to the DZ and help to put us on an equal playing field (save the lying, and dirty tricks).
There’s a general hatred throughout the industry (I think) for Skyride. Often the DZs don’t like to cooperate, but here we have the old “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” situation. I’m a small one Cessna DZ, and do between 2 and 300 tandem/first jump students a year. I’d be willing to pay an additional $50 or so a year to support the idea, and maybe a higher level commitment from the larger DZs. The larger DZs are the target of the higher level of fraud, etc and I’m sure they would all say that Skyride costs them considerable revenue. Even if Skyride brings additional students to a particular DZ, I would guess that every one of them would prefer the customer came directly to them, instead of being subject to Skyride!

What do you think?
Martin Myrtle
Air Capital Drop Zone
Wichita Kansas

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Lets keep this on topic.This thread started about Skyride.This is not or should not be about the people at any one DZ.It should be about the Skyride.It's a great idea until you screw the people that are accepting your certificates by opening a DZ right next to them.It's up to the DZO's to stop this be not taking the certificates.

[Sabre2th 0]

Exactly what I wanted anyway, just replying to the earlier post to "stop doing business at the loft, because they may be associated with skyride"....

Now, back on topic!!

Nick.

Those who dance, are cosidered insane by those who can't hear the music.

[BillyVance 34]

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The main reason (in my opinion) that Skyride gets as much business as they do is that they can afford a national paid sponsor presence on at least a few of the major search engines. I had thought that dropzone.com or USPA could become a paid sponsor on the search engines and act as a link site for drop zones (real not virtual/ghost). Problem is that this costs money and would have to be supported by the real drop zones across this greatest nation on earth! I’m not exactly sure how the DZOs could be convinced to “join” and pay their share of the related costs (and enough to afford a level of profit for Dropzone.com) if they were to take on the task. USPA would also be a logical entity to act as a middle man getting the customer directly to the real USPA group member drop zones. In order for USPA to support the idea they would again have to pass the cost along to the group members in the form of an increase in their dues. This is America and it’s a the free market, this would at least help to get the customer to the DZ and help to put us on an equal playing field (save the lying, and dirty tricks).
There’s a general hatred throughout the industry (I think) for Skyride. Often the DZs don’t like to cooperate, but here we have the old “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” situation. I’m a small one Cessna DZ, and do between 2 and 300 tandem/first jump students a year. I’d be willing to pay an additional $50 or so a year to support the idea, and maybe a higher level commitment from the larger DZs. The larger DZs are the target of the higher level of fraud, etc and I’m sure they would all say that Skyride costs them considerable revenue. Even if Skyride brings additional students to a particular DZ, I would guess that every one of them would prefer the customer came directly to them, instead of being subject to Skyride!

What do you think?
Martin Myrtle
Air Capital Drop Zone
Wichita Kansas

If you think accepting the certificates is a good thing, look for Skyride to open up a DZ near you and start taking your business away in the next few years.

First, they drove the old Pell City DZ out of business and forced the owner to sell to ASC. Then, they opened Skydive Pennridge near Philadelphia and is trying to siphon off business from Cross Keys, and now there's a new ASC clone somewhere in Illinois, I think. Their goal is to hog all the internet traffic to their own network, and leave the legitimate DZ's out in the cold. How is that going to be good for you?

What I'd like to see is USPA start up their own version of Skyride to cover all of the general membership DZs. Not exactly going to be a popular move because I know of a couple of non-USPA DZ's that are very good places to jump, and one of them is owned by a national director, but it would still be a hell of a lot more fairer than the putrid shit that Skyride does. The commission USPA generates from their certificates would then go toward reducing individual skydiver membership fees as well as pumping up the war chest for DZ legal aid where airport access issues are concerned. Sure, they'd have to spend money to build up the capability to control the internet traffic, but it would pay off eventually, and keep ASC from running roughshod over the rest of us honest people.

I am one of those who would, more than anything, like to see Skyride and ASC (both in Cedartown and Pell City) run into the ground, or at least kept in check and forced to play by the rules.

Blue Skies
Billy

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[skydived19006 4]

"If you think accepting the certificates is a good thing, look for Skyride to open up a DZ near you and start taking your business away in the next few years."



I was just “covering bases”, obviously more than a few DZs do think that accepting Skyride Certificates is a “good idea” as they do it.

I did some “leg work” and found out that the idea of USPA increasing their web presence with paid sponsorship on the search engines came up at the last BOD meeting. Jan Meyer apparently brought up the subject and it received good support, at least form those on the board with some knowledge of the internet.
I hadn’t personally considered having USPA act as a new booking agency, my thought was simply to help the customer get directly in contact with the DZ, and maybe to help them to tell the difference. Obviously USPA does not support the “virtual” drop zones that Skyride has running on the internet (I would assume).
You have a very valid point about Skyride going into direct competition by opening their own DZs, but how is that any different than if I were to open a drop zone in your backyard (other than their dishonest and illegal activities). That said I don’t think I personally have much to worry about in Kansas. Nobody and I mean nobody makes their living form skydiving alone in Kansas. I’m not saying that it can’t be done I’ve seen it done in the past. If you are the DZO, Aircraft owner, do 90% of the tandems personally, maintain your AC poorly, and have an extremely low standard of living, you can make a “living” skydiving in Kansas.

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[Levin 0]

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I don't think they should be as misleading as they are.

they shouldn't be misleading at all.

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I don't look at my resellers at parasites as someone on here referred to Skyride

feel free to quote me on that.

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having the phones answered by someone reasonably knowledgeable

their phones are answered by dishonest, elusive and ignorant people. And ignorance is a deliberate part of their MO.

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There are costs to setting up and maintaining websites, phone systems, having the phones answered by someone reasonably knowledgeable, other marketing to keep the phones ringing and keeping up with the paper generated. How is Skyride so different?

the bulk of their cost is going to be in legal fees and litigation if they are not careful.

[Levin 0]

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My friends and Instructors at ASC are excellent bad ass skydivers they are always very helpful nice people.

i have no doubt they are as are most all people in this sport.

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You can not assume that those of us fun jumpers here are somehow harmful to the sport of skydiving

yes i can

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Chuting Star Rigging loft is awsome you can't connect us fun fumpers and our rigger to this

yes i can.

The owner of ASC and SkyRide is a parasite and is one in the same. If you know what he is about and continue to support his businesses and put your money in his pocket then you are supporting a parasite. hence you are part of a parasite support structure.

if you truly care about the future of this sport then you will disassociate yourself from that parasite. If he loses his support structure then he loses much of his ability to infect our sport.

[Levin 0]

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The guy's got 12 jumps (approx) and you expect him to become informed

his jump numbers are not relevant to his ability to inform himself on current issues.

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he's to busy jumping for that stuff

not likely this time of year.

[Levin 0]

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I remember a guy calling from down here in Tallahassee asking if he was the closest Dropzone to Tallahassee and the DZ said yes and gave directions to get to Cedartown.

cyberskydive witnessed ASC taking down signs for Skydive Monroe and replacing them with signs for ASC. If that is the kind of business practices that Chutingstar manages then they are no doubt just as bad as the parasite they associate themselves with. Like I said before Chutingstar may provide great rigging services and treat their customers well but that does not mean they give a damn about what is best for the sport. A rigger can provide a good service and still not care about anything but the money.

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don't sweat the small stuff, in fact don't sweat at all,, you get smelly!!

i would rather be smelly from sweat from working to defend my sport from a parasite than smell like I got shit on by a parasite because I did nothing to try and stop it. ask yourself which is worse.

[Levin 0]

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Go after the real problem, that being Skyride.

ASC and SkyRide are one in the same. The are both the real problem. ASC's business tactics were questionable, immorral & unethical before SkyRide came into the picture. SkyRide is a direct result of where ASC's unethical business practices were going. So what's next? Multiple turbine carnival like tandem mills moving into your area is what's next. Owned by a parasite that will stoop to any immorral and unethical business tactic he can to force the other DZ's out of business. In the end you will have a sport dominated by tandem mill DZ's that don't give a damn about anything but money and the owner of all of this will be USPA. I suggest you do some research, take a few steps back and get a better view of the bigger picture and disassociate yourself from this parasite.

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I don't go after everyone and everything that is "associated" with them

think of it as a pre-emptive strike. remove his support structure and you limit his ability to further infect the sport.

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skyride benefit from the rigging loft? As far as I know, there is no connection between the two

the rigging loft is part of the DZ. The DZ is associated with SkyRide. The DZ and SkyRide are owned by the same person. Money from Skyride, the DZ, the rigging loft and the jumpers go into to this parasite's pocket and further his ability to expand his infection on the rest of the industry.

[dropzonefool 0]

OK, I just read this entire thread and maybe I missed it where it was explained why they are so bad! Many DZo's will lie and let a newbie drive to there DZ and pass right by there competitor. I was so curious I googled 1800skyride, there websight states the tandem jump is $165, I found that un-offensive, so I called them and they confirmed it was $165 and tried to talk me in to buying an additional certificate to give to a friend so I would not have to jump alone, another marketing sale. I hung up on the guy and still do not understand WHY? ... Please tell me there is some substance to them being illegal?

I didn't post in this form to flame anyone and certainly hope my post doesn't get taken as another attack, I just don't get it? HelpWill someone explane in plane text to me, why I should be offended because this is bad for the comunity?

[Levin 0]

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The main reason (in my opinion) that Skyride gets as much business as they do is that they can afford a national paid sponsor presence on at least a few of the major search engines. I had thought that dropzone.com or USPA could become a paid sponsor on the search engines and act as a link site for drop zones (real not virtual/ghost). Problem is that this costs money and would have to be supported by the real drop zones across this greatest nation on earth! I’m not exactly sure how the DZOs could be convinced to “join” and pay their share of the related costs (and enough to afford a level of profit for Dropzone.com) if they were to take on the task. USPA would also be a logical entity to act as a middle man getting the customer directly to the real USPA group member drop zones. In order for USPA to support the idea they would again have to pass the cost along to the group members in the form of an increase in their dues. This is America and it’s a the free market, this would at least help to get the customer to the DZ and help to put us on an equal playing field (save the lying, and dirty tricks).
There’s a general hatred throughout the industry (I think) for Skyride. Often the DZs don’t like to cooperate, but here we have the old “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” situation. I’m a small one Cessna DZ, and do between 2 and 300 tandem/first jump students a year. I’d be willing to pay an additional $50 or so a year to support the idea, and maybe a higher level commitment from the larger DZs. The larger DZs are the target of the higher level of fraud, etc and I’m sure they would all say that Skyride costs them considerable revenue. Even if Skyride brings additional students to a particular DZ, I would guess that every one of them would prefer the customer came directly to them, instead of being subject to Skyride!

I don't like the idea of any kind of middleman. Nobody asked for a middleman and no one wants one imposed on them. But if there had to be one then I would prefer dropzone.com over the USPA. SkyRide discriminates between those that do and do not accept their certifcates. USPA discriminates between member and non-member DZ's. In fact if you look at USPA and SkyRide they have simillarities. Both impose themselves on you and the sport. Both do not acknowledge the existance of those that do not particpate in their programs. The difference is the USPA is legitimate and has the best interest of the sport at heart and uses it revinue to protect and further improve our sport. SkyRide is very shady and doesn't care about the sport. They only care about dollars. Dropzone.com on the other hand is unbiased and doesn't discrimate between anybody. If SkyRide can make money doing what they are doing then Sangiro can too. Alot more money than what he makes off of little red stars. I'm sure Sangiro realizes this and I bet he has already spent some time pondering the idea. Again I don't like the idea of a middle man at all but if there needs to be one then I think Sangiro is the most logical choice. He's a good honest person and I am sure in this case good would prevail over evil. SKYRIDENCE!

[Levin 0]

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Lets keep this on topic.This thread started about Skyride.

It is on topic. It started about SkyRide and is still about SkyRide. The thread is titled "What can we do about SkyRide?" Fully identifying the problem is part of finding a solution.

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It's up to the DZO's to stop this be not taking the certificates.

That is logical assumption. Think about for a second and you will realize it doesn't quit work like that. If DZ 'A' is taking the certificates and DZ 'B' is trying to do the right thing and not take them then DZ 'B' is shooting themselves in the foot while leaving no reason for DZ 'A' to quit taking them. You have to look at this whole thing from jumper's point of view, as well as the DZO's, the 1st time customer's and the parasite that is running the whole thing.

[teason 0]

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parasites as someone on here referred to Skyride

I did, remember me? remember they stole my website? Do I really have to keep posting this? It isn't bending rules, it's breaking them.

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How is Skyride so different?

They are different because they redirect web traffic to themselves. They are different because they cash in on the marketing done by others. They are different because they do not enhance the service or broaden markets or benifit consumers in ANY way.

My DZ happens to have an agreement with a canadian company that books ballon rides, kyaking, hang gliding and other adventure sports. They allow us to reach a markets we couldn't reach on our own. They broaden the scope of our exposure, marketing to like minded indiviuals who may not have considered skydiving. They earn the commisions we pay. They have given us TV exposure, brochures, and grassroots marketing in the form of newsletters etc.

Skyride profits from the people who happen across them while doing a search on the net.


BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.