Does being a pilot give you any kind of edge?

[JohanW 0]

I'd say go easy on the books. Enthusiasm is great, but it might help you (and your instructors!) more if you have the right mindset - be a student again.

You might go through the course marginally faster with three books' worth of preparation, but the instructor will want to make sure he's covered every subject anyway, and you may take more time because you're getting ahead of yourself, the course and possibly other students who did not read up beforehand.

The best student is a student, not someone who has a head start in theoretical knowledge, but someone able to be taught.

You're still young(ish), about the same age when I was when I learned to skydive, and then I could surrender to being a student, and it was a fantastic experience. I had a lot more difficulty when, 8 years later and firmly not used to being in the student position anymore, I wanted to learn to ride a bike. (Having driven a car for years is a mixed blessing when learning to ride a bike - see the post above on the skydiver thinking he has to land the plane for comparison.)

Keep an open mind, and learn. You will have to sit the course anyway, regardless how many books you've read. Especially don't let it get to your head, because you will be a student again - there will be new things to learn, and to learn to do, that will be vital to long term survival. Yours and others'.

All that said, of course being a pilot helps in some ways. Come back after your AFF and tell us a) how much fun it was and b) how being a pilot helped you and your instructors. And c) where it did not help. We learn from that, too!

Good luck, have fun and get out of the plane!

Johan.
I am. I think.

[A1CSpooky 0]

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I'd say go easy on the books. Enthusiasm is great, but it might help you (and your instructors!) more if you have the right mindset - be a student again.

You might go through the course marginally faster with three books' worth of preparation, but the instructor will want to make sure he's covered every subject anyway, and you may take more time because you're getting ahead of yourself, the course and possibly other students who did not read up beforehand.

The best student is a student, not someone who has a head start in theoretical knowledge, but someone able to be taught.

You're still young(ish), about the same age when I was when I learned to skydive, and then I could surrender to being a student, and it was a fantastic experience. I had a lot more difficulty when, 8 years later and firmly not used to being in the student position anymore, I wanted to learn to ride a bike. (Having driven a car for years is a mixed blessing when learning to ride a bike - see the post above on the skydiver thinking he has to land the plane for comparison.)

Keep an open mind, and learn. You will have to sit the course anyway, regardless how many books you've read. Especially don't let it get to your head, because you will be a student again - there will be new things to learn, and to learn to do, that will be vital to long term survival. Yours and others'.

All that said, of course being a pilot helps in some ways. Come back after your AFF and tell us a) how much fun it was and b) how being a pilot helped you and your instructors. And c) where it did not help. We learn from that, too!

Good luck, have fun and get out of the plane!

Thanks! I am ready to be a student again! I'm a pilot instructor and I'm kinda sick of training right now. I want to be that guy in the seat absorbing the knowledge. Because it seems new and exciting, I'm ready to check my pilot ego and be the newbie and all the hazing that comes with it. I guess being prior military makes me a glutton for punishment, I kind of enjoy it; is that sadistic? Ha!

I am sincerely excited and I will definitely comeback and post how fun everything is and what pro's and con's I had.

After making a sunset tandem jump in Honolulu I was hooked. I've had some amazing sex, and this was just as good, if not better, and most likely longer...hahahaha

Spooky

[JohanW 0]

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.. most likely longer ..

60 seconds at most. Focus more on the journey and less on the destination. Apply as appropriate to either sport.

No, being prior military probably makes you stand at attention and shout Sir Yes Sir when they're shouting at you. A good instructor can work wonders with a student like that. That is an advantage.

BTW, isn't Spooky an attack Herc? Or an elint Herc, don't remember exactly. What's an A1C?

Johan.
I am. I think.

[A1CSpooky 0]

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.. most likely longer ..

60 seconds at most. Focus more on the journey and less on the destination. Apply as appropriate to either sport.

No, being prior military probably makes you stand at attention and shout Sir Yes Sir when they're shouting at you. A good instructor can work wonders with a student like that. That is an advantage.

BTW, isn't Spooky an attack Herc? Or an elint Herc, don't remember exactly. What's an A1C?

Yup,

Yer right on AC-130 Gunship. An A1C is what I was at one point a while ago...hahaha. Airman 1st Class USAF, I was a gunner 1A771'er

[kallend 1,623]

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I thought it helped a LOT. But I had a glider rating too.

I thought it helped me too. But then, I've never learned to skydive without having been a glider pilot first so I can't really compare it

Didn't you observe other students learning at the same time? Since?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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I agree with a lot of the responses about already having some background knowledge about flying the pattern, winds & weather, airspace, and aircraft & aircraft operations.

There's also the "making a decision" concept that was brought up by Squirrel: You'll already have that aviation mindset of having to evaluate and react to stressful & dangerous situations. And to anticipate such situations, looking for combinations of factors that may lead to them.

It's not that pilots and skydivers are special in facing dangers -- one can be killed mundanely driving a car -- but in aviation the whole decision making and human factors concept is more explicitly covered.

There can also be negative aspects to already being accomplished in aviation, as it can be for those with skills in some 'extreme' sport -- for those who let it go to their head. Skills in one field aren't always the ones needed in another. The person may have a talent for learning quickly, but they have to use it and recognize what they don't know.

In skydiving there are plenty of debates about the degree to which 'good awareness' transfers over from another field to skydiving. Generally being heads up and aware may not help keep one out of trouble when there are subtle skills & knowledge that are lacking.

(Classic aviation examples that A1CSpooky will recognize: The respected airline captain who groundloops a taildragger he hasn't touched in 20 years, or the successful businessman who learns to fly and soon kills himself in the Mooney he bought.)

Just being more comfortable in the sky in general should help. For me, it didn't hurt that I didn't just fly straight & level in a C-150, but had done some gliding and aerobatics too. I can't say that my first couple skydives weren't still stressful and a little scary. But I was able to avoid the problem that some students have with freefall stability & control, from being too stiff and nervous.

Ah... Mooney's ... The doctor killers...lol

No- the V tail Bonanza is the "forked tail doctor killer". Mooneys are lovely.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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The best student is a student, not someone who has a head start in theoretical knowledge, but someone able to be taught.

So what would you say to a potential skydiver who happened to be, say, a physics or engineering professor? "Go away, you'll never learn"?

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. Come back after your AFF and tell us a) how much fun it was and b) how being a pilot helped you and your instructors. And c) where it did not help. We learn from that, too!

I didn't find ANYTHING about being a pilot to be unhelpful in my student training.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,396]

> So what would you say to a potential skydiver who happened to be, say,
>a physics or engineering professor? "Go away, you'll never learn"?

I'd start off with something like "Welcome to skydiving! This course is going to take five or six hours, and is going to be pretty informal. If you have a question, ask it. If you want to take a break, tell me and we'll take a break." Etc etc.

If they told me they had a PhD in engineering, and thus knew all about parachute design, I'd show them the rig anyway, and unpack a main to show them the parts of it.

If they told me that they were a physics professor, understood all about stability and fluid dynamics, and therefore did not need to practice arching, I'd explain to them why they really did need to practice it. If they insisted, I'd suggest a ride in the wind tunnel instead of an AFF FJC that they feel they do not need.

[Beerlight 0]

So, what do you fly?

[AggieDave 6]

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So, what do you fly?

The FBO couch?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[A1CSpooky 0]

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So, what do you fly?

The FBO couch?

Hahaha... close! A moving glass, electronic, box! Right now I'm a sim instructor.

As far as mooney's go, personal experience, that's why I call it a doctor killer. But everyone is right, the "True" doctor killer is the V-tail. Nice to look at though.

[Beerlight 0]

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So, what do you fly?

The FBO couch?

Hahaha... close! A moving glass, electronic, box! Right now I'm a sim instructor.

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Ok, give it up. Your have ATP, and your a sim instructor? Wait, I figured it out. Your a "retired" pilot. Now a sim instructor....? I'm I close? Although you didn't know the V-tail was the Dr. killer.....hmmm

[A1CSpooky 0]

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So, what do you fly?

The FBO couch?

Hahaha... close! A moving glass, electronic, box! Right now I'm a sim instructor.

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Ok, give it up. Your have ATP, and your a sim instructor? Wait, I figured it out. Your a "retired" pilot. Now a sim instructor....? I'm I close? Although you didn't know the V-tail was the Dr. killer.....hmmm

I hate to say retired, unfortunately I have to say I have been temporarily moved to instructing pending the outcome of some issues with my medical. Rahter a sore story....

Yeah can't say much about the V-tail except only heard about them in stories. Got my liscenses at University of Illinois moved from archers, to arrow's, to Seminoles, don't have much experience around the real creme of the GA world. I guess I can't really complain all of the aircraft I learned on were no older then '96, so I can't complain, and the seminoles were brand spanking new, compared to the beechcraft that they had just gotten rid of. I will say I don't miss being out in Champaign, Illinois weather in the middle of January with a spray bottle of Alcohol and a hand squeege...lol

[F16Driver 0]

Welcome to the forum. Being a pilot DEFINITELY helps, like most have said. Guaranteed you will be hooked. I'm curious, where do you work/fly right now? Flight Safety International?


BTW, I currently fly a 1965 V-tail Bonanza (Dr killer, but still a great plane) and 1947 Cessna 120. Also, the Citation X and the F-16.

"I promise, I will never die."

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi A1C,

I was in when A1C was an E-4; how about you?

I was in when it went from A1/C to A1C.

JerryBaumchen

[A1CSpooky 0]

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Hi A1C,

I was in when A1C was an E-4; how about you?

I was in when it went from A1/C to A1C.

JerryBaumchen

Nope, When I was in it had already changed to E-3

[Skydivesg 6]

Two suggestions.

First: Don't tell anyone at the drop zone that you're a pilot. You could end up with your hands on the throttles instead of the toggles. lol

Second: If possible find a drop zone that will allow you (even encourage you) to get your first 25 jumps in one week. This will accelerate your training. Also get trained as early in the year as possible and then make as many jumps as you can possibly afford in your first year. There is no training like experience.

If I were going to study anything, it would be the dive flows for the first 7 AFF jumps. Become very familiar with them so you know what will be expected on each jump. Even if your instructors vary the dive flow you will still have a baseline knowledge of them which will ease your stress level.
This is what my son did. He made 2 jumps the first day and 4 on the second and graduated in 6 jumps.
We also gave him 15 minutes of tunnel the night before his training.

Again the best way to learn is to make a lot of jumps very close together.

And bring lots of beer.
Good luck.
Sandy

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[kallend 1,623]

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> So what would you say to a potential skydiver who happened to be, say,
>a physics or engineering professor? "Go away, you'll never learn"?

I'd start off with something like "Welcome to skydiving! This course is going to take five or six hours, and is going to be pretty informal. If you have a question, ask it. If you want to take a break, tell me and we'll take a break." Etc etc.

If they told me they had a PhD in engineering, and thus knew all about parachute design, I'd show them the rig anyway, and unpack a main to show them the parts of it.

If they told me that they were a physics professor, understood all about stability and fluid dynamics, and therefore did not need to practice arching, I'd explain to them why they really did need to practice it. If they insisted, I'd suggest a ride in the wind tunnel instead of an AFF FJC that they feel they do not need.

Do you agree with his statement: "The best student is a student, not someone who has a head start in theoretical knowledge, but someone able to be taught."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[A1CSpooky 0]

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Two suggestions.

First: Don't tell anyone at the drop zone that you're a pilot. You could end up with your hands on the throttles instead of the toggles. lol

Second: If possible find a drop zone that will allow you (even encourage you) to get your first 25 jumps in one week. This will accelerate your training. Also get trained as early in the year as possible and then make as many jumps as you can possibly afford in your first year. There is no training like experience.

If I we're going to study anything, it would be the dive flows for the first 7 AFF jumps. Become very familiar with them so you know what will be expected on each jump. Even if your instructors vary the dive flow you will still have a baseline knowledge of them which will ease your stress level.
This is what my son did. He made 2 jumps the first day and 4 on the second and graduated in 6 jumps.
We also gave him 15 minutes of tunnel the night before his training.

Again the best way to learn is to make a lot of jumps very close together.

And bring lots of beer.
Good luck.
Sandy

Thanks Sandy,

My next question for you is: How much beer do I have to bring and when will i be expected to pass it out.

Second question: What are the occassions that you usually end up buying everybody at the DZ a beer? I've read that people accidentaly making a downwind landing are the ones to watch for...lol.

Will

[Skydivesg 6]

Once you get to the dz and spend some time you'll figure out that some people will try to get you to buy beer for everything. Many of these people will just be kidding you (sort of a right of passage to kid the new guy all the time). Others are just looking to get free beer to drink.

Usually you buy a case of beer for your first major accomplishments i.e. first jump, first malfunction, first 4 way etc.
Your instructors will help guide you so your not being taken advantage of.

My son made so many firsts in such a short time he just bought a keg. It ended up being cheaper and no one could accuse him of not ponying up for the beer.

BTW I do intentional downwind landings quite often.
Those who do them by accident are the ones to watch out for.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[AFFI 0]

Best students I have ever trained are individuals who;
A) pay attention to the blocks of instruction I give that are in accordance with the cirriculumn I am teaching in,
B) study the information they are directed to and
C) can relax in a potentially stressful situations (experiences like - racing, mtn climbing, medical professionals).

Difficult students?
First thing that comes to mind is - as I am attempting to deliver a block of instruction on canopy flight I hear; “I land jets on aircraft carriers at night, I think I can handle a parachute”.
After their first landing this person became more than willing to allow me to discuss canopy flight with them…

My point is, go in to it with a fresh, clean slate, become and remain totally teachable as if you know nothing. Let your instructors mold you, even if is seems rudimentary and fundamental to you at the time. Humility goes a long way in this sport, and in life…

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[tombuch 0]

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So what would you say to a potential skydiver who happened to be, say, a physics or engineering professor? "Go away, you'll never learn"?

Hell no!

We all learn things differently. The physics professors is probably focused on technical stuff (sensing, thinking, judging), and although he "feels" too, he will probably learn best if given concrete examples and then guided to understand how the tech fits into the operational world of skydiving. Another student may be all touchy-feely and not care a whit about the tech. They need to be approached differently. A good instructor will be able to recognize various personality and learning styles and adapt his teaching to the individual.

Some of the first research into this area was done by Carl Jung in 1920. He offered a series of "function types", which became the focus of the Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator in the 1950's, and were well described by researchers Kiersey and Bates in 1984. Others have added further depth to our understanding of personality types, and how they relate to the world. That information has been further defined to help instructor as they attempt to provide information to students.

A good instructor will take the time to learn about personality types and learning styles, and then be able to apply this information to just about any student. The instructor who believes a physics or engineering professor should "go away" or suggests that the technical experience and mind set are not helpful, should probably find another line of work.

As a starting point for additional information, take a look at an excellent description of this stuff on Wikipedia, under "Meyers-Briggs Type Indicator" at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator. There are tons of additional links at the bottom of the page, so you can spend a day or a lifetime learning about learning without ever leaving your laptop!

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[woodpecker 0]

Your 26, got out of the AF as an A1C (so you were in for 2 years) as a spooky gunner, and a pilot instructor now on sims?

Just curious?

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[grannyinthesky 0]

As a math instructor who's just started AFF, I can really appreciate what you are saying about different learning styles. I can easily absorb the information about calculating wing load or landing patterns, for example, so studying that material from the SIM lets me concentrate on the things that are really foreign to me, like flying the landing pattern that my brain says should happen. It's also a big challenge personally to be in the student rold. I'm used to knowing what to do and doing it competently. What a change! I find I really have to give myself permission to make mistakes. Pat

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[tempretired 0]

Funny you should say that "you cannot add power".

A friend at the DZ is an Air Force Pilot that pilots C-141s. She got behind the treeline on a windy day at our DZ and landed in a big tree. When we asked how it was possible to land in a tree with all of her piloting experience, she laughed and told us that airplanes are easy land, as they have throttle control to help compensate for wind on final approach. On final while going straight down towards the trees, she said she kept reaching for the throttle for more power but didn't get any.


It was a classic.