Jump plane pilots

[diablopilot 2]

Year two the pay usually goes up quite a bit.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diverds 0]

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You mention that otters are much less complicated than seminoles/senecas due to lack of shock cooling and cowl flaps.
I've never flown an otter, but I fly about 600 hours per year on a different twin turbine jumpship and can assure you that it is just as easy to damage turbine engines as pistons if you don't manage them correctly. The big difference however is in the price of the mistakes you make.

I was thinking the same thing. Pistons and turbines both have to be operated correctly. To say one is "more difficult" than the other might be a bit of a stretch. To say one is more costly than the other is not.

As for requiring 1000 hours to get into an Otter, think about it this way. Bend up a 182 and the insurance company is looking at 50-60K for the airplane and 5 possible injuries/fatalities. Bend up an Otter and they are looking at closer to a million for the airplane and 24 possible injuries/fatalities so it's not hard to understand why they want those pilots to have more experience.

edit for quote.

Skydive Radio

[squarecanopy 0]

and please explain to me how someone can build twin turbine time without morgaging their house? I know aviations a game of "who you know"

You might consider getting to know some of the corporate pilots at your airport that fly turbine twins. Alot of times they don't have a full airplane, and would be happy to let you go along on a trip and get some ME time. My dad mentored many young/low time pilots in this way during his years in corporate aviation, and that helped those pilots build ME time under the supervision of one of the best instrument/multi engine/ mountain pilots ever to bend a set of throttles around here.

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

[itllclear 1]

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Anyhow, if you can get a job with a regional at 400- 500 hours, why would anyone want to be a jump plane pilot?

Maybe because your IFR skills were so poor when you went for your interview that the airlines figured you didn't take the time or effort to prepare.

Maybe you don't like the idea of having to preflight the plane in the snow and rain. We don't jump in those conditions.

Maybe because the idea of having a really "interesting" schedule doesn't appeal to you.

Maybe because the idea of having to shave, remove the facial piercings, and wear clean clothes doesn't appeal to you.

Maybe because the airlines won't hire you because of the "age 60" rule.

Etc.

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[asmund 0]

I'm currently transitioning to a Caravan after flying jumpers with piston aircraft, and kinda like you I was thinking that "it can't be that difficult" and I thought I was ready back when I had 6-700 hours. However, even the Caravan is quite an upgrade from a piston jump plane, more than twice the weight, many more people to get out on jump run, and much more capable, especially in descent, so I'm nothing but very glad for the extra experience and skill acquired while obtaining the full 1000 hours insurance minimum. Its a difference between being able to perform the flight while everything is operating or going along fine, versus being able to respond to abnormalities by applying knowledge gained from "having seen it before". Or at least making an effort to study.

I've heard a few other jump pilots commenting like you, that "flying jumpers is easy" or "I've learned absolutely nothing, and I've gained absolutely no skill while flying skydivers" (actual quote). Coincidentally, those pilots don't achieve nearly the same excellence in turn-times, consistent spots and rapid operation as those (most) pilots I've talked to who recognize the risks, and improves and applies themselves to flying as good as possible.

As posters above said, a jump pilot is a Pilot.In.Command...whereas an F.O. in an airline is, no disrespect, just another team-member working between the captain, scheduling, dispatchers, ground crews, F/As etc. Can't even log that time as PIC.

I like subway.

[hudsonderek 0]

hey guys,
my bitterness has gone away (I've found a well paying CFI job) so by the time I get around to flying jumpers in some twin turbine I should have more towards 1,300 hours and several hundred of that multi time. there is no easy way out when it comes to getting flying jobs (unless your parents own a plane or run an FBO and let you do everything for free). why fly jumpers? because it's an interesting job with tons of fun people around, it won't make you rich, but you'll have a great time doing it. or at least that's my opinion.

[NickDG 23]

>>it won't make you rich, but you'll have a great time doing it.
Tits (er, bobbies) = Altitude . . .

Except like Anne told me at Perris, when she's flying the Otter, it's willys. . .

NickD

[diverds 0]

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Tits (er, bobbies) = Altitude . . .

Because I don't want to sexually discriminate, I gladly accept titties or tequila (no Quervo you cheap fuckers...square bottles only...Patron, Don Julio, Cabo Wabo etc)

Skydive Radio

[av8rdav 2]

The difference being that you're not the captain when a regional hires you with those hours.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin-

[rmarshall234 13]

In addition, aviation requires a healthy dose of respect. Respect for your equipment...things can _suddenly_ go to shit and you must have the knowledge, experience and composure to deal with it. Respect for the weather...the change can be insidious, and now you're in over your head. Respect for the regs....even though you don't agree with them. Respect for your peers....they know things you haven't yet learned. And even, respect for the system.....there is usually a pretty good reason things are the way they are.

Keep at it and keep your mind open.

[F16Driver 0]

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why fly jumpers? because it's an interesting job with tons of fun people around, it won't make you rich, but you'll have a great time doing it. or at least that's my opinion.

Personally, I hate flying jumpers, even though I'll take a load up if my DZ REALLY needs a pilot. That's why I got my tandem rating. $30 a load compared to $8-$10, no brainer.

Also, flying jumpers is NEVER going to make you a lot of money. Something to consider if you decide to support a family down the road. Also, If you try to go to another flying job (corporate, cargo, airline) with your otter/jumper time, It is going to be difficult for you. Regardless of how much turbine PIC you will have, you won't have a lot of cross country or IMC experience.

Do yourself a favor and leave flying jumpers full-time to older/retired pilots. Not to crush your dreams, bro, but you will thank me later. The fun of flying jumpers DOES wear off.

"I promise, I will never die."

[dmk111111 0]

I gotta agree with you, F16 driver.

Hudsonderek, apply for a regional job now with your hours!

I am an experienced skydiver and have flown jumpers in an Otter and King Air. It is a lot of fun for a while, but there is some downside in terms of risk and marginal equipment. What happened to me is that I became more and more tolerant of bad equipment and situations, until finally you take a good look at it and determine it may not be worth the risks.

I am currently an FO at a regional. Comparing jump plane flying to airline flying is apples and oranges. While it has it's challenges, flying jumpers is not gonna help you get the IMC and ATC practice you need, much less turbojet time. Apply at the regionals man...the pay gets better. Despite what people think, at the airline, the FO is a lot more than just a gear monkey/secretary. You are very much flying and you learn a lot!!! Good luck

[davelepka 4]

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at the airline, the FO is a lot more than just a gear monkey

"Gear Monkey" is my new favorite aviation term. I know a guy who just got hired to a regional, and I can't wait to drop this on him while he puts in his time as FO.

[Zing 2]

Gear monkey ... gear up, flaps up, shut up!

Zing Lurks

[F16Driver 0]

Funny thing is the right seat actually has the highest work load.

SIC- Radios, Checklists, Avionics, Configuration, etc., etc.

PIC- Taxi, Takeoff, Land, Push Autopilot and Monitor

At Netjets, we swap seats every other flight. Flying left seat is way easier (As long as the SIC is getting all his shit done).

"I promise, I will never die."

[riggerrob 558]

Yes, I am facing a similar dilemma.

I used to fly jumpers back in the 1980s (Cessna 182 and before you needed a commercial pilot license).

Now my knee is telling me to get out of the tandem business, and I asked my boss if he would transfer me to the junior pilot slot.
He tried to talk me out of that career move because he has difficulty hiring decent TIs.
The flip side is that he can hire (young commercial) pilots - to fly his Cessnas for starvation wages!

[F16Driver 0]

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The flip side is that he can hire (young commercial) pilots - to fly his Cessnas for starvation wages!

The down side to that it is a short fix. With hiring mins at the regionals being so low, that young pilot won't be there very long. They will be able to count on you.

"I promise, I will never die."

[JohnMitchell 14]

Ain't nothin' better than an experienced jumper for a jump pilot. Making a good jump pilot out of a whuffo takes a lot of work, a lot of bad spots, crappy cuts, and screwed up jump runs. There's more than one pilot I won't get in a plane with.

[riggerrob 558]

Agreed!
Most of his junior pilots only last one summer before they move on to fly bigger and better airplanes.

One flies for LOT Airlines in Poland.
One flies Dornier 328s on scheduled routes in Northern BC.
Another flies executive jets out of Texas.
Another flies King Airs in Northern Alberta.
Another flies twins in Quebec.
Another flies a "bush" Cessna 206 in Northern Alberta.
Another flies Cessna 182 at another DZ.
Another flies a dispatcher's desk for a helicopter company.

[godfrog 2]

flying jumpers isnt all bad, a friend and jump pilot I used to fly with a few years ago in mt. went back to to east coast and got broke into a king air, on his days and time off he would put on good clothes and went around the airports talking to everyone and ended up with a seat in a private jet.
Another story is another freind of mine was ferrying a jump plane (182) and landed for fuel, a distraught fellow was pacing around the FBO needing to get to a certain city, was asked I'm going there if you don't mind sitting on the floor I'll take ya. upon arrival man asks jump pilot if he needs a job? pilot says doin what? man says, being my personal pilot, I just fired my last one! man pays for pilots ratings to fly his personal jet and float plane! some people are just in the right place at the right time.

Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward