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bcmin

First cutaway

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This Saturday I had my first cutaway at Eloy. The parachute collapsed while I was doing a spiral at 1,200 feet and went into line twists. I looked at the twists, looked at my altimeter, now down to 1,000 feet, said screw it, and chopped. It was intense being back in freefall so low! The reserve came out fine, and I had a nice graceful faceplant for a landing.

Anyway, I think there were a few people videoing the landings, and I was wondering if anyone caught it. It happened at the alternate landing area at Eloy around 4:00 PM on saturday. I had the black and gold main. Thanks!

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At that wingloading such a huge control input on a higher performance wing like the Saber2 (as compared to many student canopies designs) will cause the canopy to spin, stall, and/or collapse.

Be a little more smooth on those inputs and you can use the same amount of deflection.:)

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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I'm going to break down and be the asshole here.

My first thought was I hope this is a troll.

My first thought after that was why were you spiraling your canopy at 1200 ft. After reading your statement,"I didn't know the canopy would do that", my next thought was I hope you get with an instructor and find out what else you may not know.

Your comment about not pulling your reserve handle and then the "oh well" tells me that maybe you have the wrong attitude to be allowed to skydive again. If I had read that and you came to a DZ that I owned I would not let you jump without some serious conversations and close supervision.

This may all seem harsh but you almost died and I think you have the wrong attitude about what you did and did not do.

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At that wingloading such a huge control input on a higher performance wing like the Saber2 (as compared to many student canopies designs) will cause the canopy to spin, stall, and/or collapse.

Be a little more smooth on those inputs and you can use the same amount of deflection.:)



Think you can do this on just about any canopy. I spun up a 320 sq Man-O-War (.7 loading) on my 10th jump at 4k feet. There has also been a few fatalities over the years from people spinning up their canopies at a low altitude.

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Warning, I wrote too much! Once you get me started I can be long winded. If you have a short attention span, the third (after this) and last paragraphs are the most worth reading, I think. Damn, I just made it even longer.

CSpence, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're "being the asshole" because you simply don't know a better way to get your point across. Given that you have almost 7,000 posts, I'm not going to try to help you there. You're at the point that if you had any interest in learning, you would have already done it. That said, I've gone ahead and mentally removed the "assholeness" from your post, so that I can respond and we can have a mature conversation.

I only have 32 jumps, so I'm obviously not an expert. The first thing I did after this happened was talk to some instructors about why it happened, what I did wrong, and how to fly better in the future. I don't feel like writing all of the conclusions out here, but if you're particularly interested, send me a PM and we can chat.

I learned one lesson very well. You can drill something into your head over and over and over, but when the shit really hits the fan, catches you by surprise, and you only have a moment to think about it, you may not react the way you'd planned. When I saw the line twists and the parachute started spiralling, I looked at my altimeter. It read 1,000 feet. 1,000 feet, I remembered, was the minimum altitude recommended to deploy a reserve. I had a fraction of a second to make a decision, and I decided that it was not worth it to wait and ponder my EPs until I could pull it back through the adrenaline. Just like I decided it wasn't worth it to try and fix the line twists and then potentially fall too low to open my reserve. I saw the altitude, and I executed the best EPs I could come up with that quickly. I know you didn't criticize my decision here, but I thought I'd explain it a little more thoroughly just to clarify, because it might shed some light on my attitude now about the reserve handle.

Now, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt once again and assume that you aren't so presumptuous as to believe that you can completely understand my reaction to the event from a post I wrote in 30 seconds two days later. So, since you've expressed an interest in my current state of mind after reflecting on it, I'll indulge you.

I can't predict how I'm going to handle a high stress situation. Sometimes I'm perfectly calm when I should be freaking out, sometimes I freak out when I need to be perfectly calm. I can't go back and change what happened, so I've accepted the events as they unfolded. When I made my first AFF, I lost A/A halfway down and my instructor had to deploy for me. Since then, I've been extremely anal about maintaining A/A on every one of my jumps. It goes back to that "fool me once" adage. After all of my reflecting, I've decided that I'm glad things turned out the way they did. I'm ok, and I've taken a huge step towards keeping myself safe in the future.

One question I've asked myself many times is "If the RSL hadn't operated correctly, would I have deployed in time?" I don't know. I like to think it would have just taken another second for my brain to kick in and move my hands to the reserve handle, but there's no way to know for sure. I will say that the next time I have to use it, I'll be a lot more likely to get it right.

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I really don't need all of that "benefit of the doubt". Your initial post had more of a "look what I did" feel then a "I learned something",especially since it appears that you were merely looking for a copy of the video. Don't worry, if it's out there you'll be on the internet soon.

Now lets move on since you spent more time giving me the "benefit of the doubt" then looking at what got you to 1000ft with a spun up canopy. I would be willing to bet the folks out a Eloy advise against someone with 32 jumps spiraling a canopy below probably 2000ft or possibly higher. Next, I am willing to bet they probably prohibit doing the same over any of their landing areas.If either of the two above statements are not true you should find a new place to jump.

I'm very happy that you didn't take the time to try to fix anything. If you had you would probably be dead. However this statement really bothers me.

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I saw the altitude, and I executed the best EPs I could come up with that quickly.



At your level of situational awareness ( I don't mean this to sound condescending but at 32 jumps you are only aware of so much)your EPs are pull your cutaway handle and then your reserve handle. You failed to do 50% of that. Your EPs should not be something you have to "come up with".

Now on to my presumption. The only presumption that I might have is to the intent of your original post and whether or not you are one of those people that are too cool for school. The content of your original post after having two days to think about it led me to the second part of that.

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I can't predict how I'm going to handle a high stress situation.



I would suggest then that you always pull high.

There is no way to know if in another second or two you would have pulled your reserve handle in the absence of the RSL, I'm betting you would have. The next question to ask is after two more seconds and in a subterminal deployment would your reserve have deployed in time and fully?

Now we'll move on to my main point and really a step back. I lost two friends in '07 due to a canopy collision. Short story, someone with 8000 jumps didn't see another someone with 6000 jumps and in a matter of seconds lives are changed forever. At 32 jumps and at 1500ft your only concern should be to land your canopy without hurting yourself or anyone else. Over and above working on your EPs I hope you will take that last statement to heart. You were seconds from not being here to start this thread. The content of your original post did not show a understanding or concern for that.

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Buy gear with a skyhook if you plan on doing stupid shit low. It'll up your odds.

Now where did I leave my "dumbass" stamp...?
Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure.

CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!"

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This may all seem harsh but you almost died and I think you have the wrong attitude about what you did and did not do.



I was just hoping that it was lost in translation...but you may be right on with this one. Brunswick this guy was lucky.
SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

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Snip....

I learned one lesson very well. You can drill something into your head over and over and over, but when the shit really hits the fan, catches you by surprise, and you only have a moment to think about it, you may not react the way you'd planned.

Snip......



Proceeding on the basis that this is not a troll but is a novice jumper who just had his first reserve ride -

If this is your "take-a-way" lesson from your error, then you didn't take away the right "key" lesson. Some may have been covered by the Skydive AZ Staff, but in case they were not:

Lesson 1 - Most emergencies under canopy are caused by pilot error. You caused yours by initiating a manuever at an unsafe altitude and left yourself no other outs. You started the chain of events. As per others, your job at the altitude you caused your own malfunction was to get into the landing pattern and land safely, not f&*%ing around. If you disagree with this, then you are not accepting responsibility for your own actions (and that would be a separate issue).

Lesson 2 - The Emergency Procedures Drill for someone with your experience is the one you were taught on your first jump course ("Look-Locate-Punch Right-Punch Left-Arch" or whatever variation is taught in your neck of the woods). You do not have the experience to judge when to deviate from this drill. You should be mentally rehearsing the drill on your way to the plane and prior to exit so that it will always be that - a drill. As others have pointed out, back into the harness with you until this is a drill.

Lesson 3 - RSL's, like AAD's, are mechanical devices which are not to be relied upon to save your life. They operate within their paramaters and have their limitations. I have had a number of reserve rides over the years and never, on any of them, did I even think about the Cypress or RSL as I dealt with the situation and deply my reserve. The Drill is simple and effective.

There are a number of good articles on canopy control in the Safety Section and there are a number of people putting on excellent seminars out there (especially if Eloy is your home DZ). Educate yourself and get some good good training.

You dont have to give guys like CSpenceFLY the benefit of the doubt. Remember that guys like him have had to clean up the carnage from accidents. They dont like seeing anyone getting hurt.

I also get a little preachy about safety, but I will tell you from first hand experience that it SUCKS to give Mouth-to-Mouth to a friend who ends up dying before he made it to the operating table.

You are new in this game. If you want to stay in the game, learn and apply the training you been given and learn and apply new training after you have mastered the more basic skills.

Major Dad
CSPA D-579

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Yes, I posted originally because I was hoping to see the video. Yes, I also appreciate the advice that was given. Major Dad especially did an excellent job summarizing the important take-aways.

CSpence, I've read a lot of good stuff that I've taken to heart from this thread, and I'm certainly not going to argue with you on any skydiving subject. I really hope that you consider adjusting your tone when you try to educate, so that your message doesn't get lost. That would be a real shame.

That's all.

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CSpence, I've read a lot of good stuff that I've taken to heart from this thread, and I'm certainly not going to argue with you on any skydiving subject. I really hope that you consider adjusting your tone when you try to educate, so that your message doesn't get lost. That would be a real shame.



Bloody hell! Give me a break!!! B|

This isn't flag football, it is skydiving. You can fucking DIE. If you can't deal with a dead serious message because you don't like the "tone" then you should pick up golf.

There is nothing wrong with Spence's tone, or additude.

You fucked up! You were yanking your toggles around like a monkey, when you should have been behaving in the pattern. So you were endagering yourself, and every one else in the air. Learn from it! The tone of the message doesn't mattern, the only thing that matters is the message. :S
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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