Reasonable age to jump solo

[ChrisD 0]

Andy9o8

You sound like Mike Stafford.

Give it a rest would ya????

Either contribute to the topic or not???
You can always pm me to bash and make personal attacks, I welcome them, perhaps we can all reach some sort of accord???

But I suspect some are getting a rush from publicly joining in in some kind of witch hunt, the biggest thing being just to want to appear "IN",,,, in the in crowd?? I don't know that's just a wag. You honestly sound like a nice guy. But these non-sequiteor, twittering like meaningless quips are actually interfering with those that have something to say and also interfering with those that want to learn something.

C

(Hi mike, you sound interesting as well. BUT: [I] "Lighten up ChrisD! Most of these guys are idiots. Being compared to me is a privilege and an honor. I don't care to be compared to you though. Keep on posting and I'll keep on reading the parts I understand." [/I] They are not idiots. Some of my ideas and experiences are very difficult to understand. Many do the best they can considering this is a hobby for many and a livelihood for many others. Considering I believe that skydiving has become a punching bag for the legal profession and skydiving is taking economic hits that most don't understand, have a little compassion will ya?)

Hey have you seen my latest utube vid: Nice Bike ride. Not mine of course, but it looks like fun.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[MikeStafford 0]

jclalor

******In response to the 16 year old injured in what appears to be her first solo jump, I would think that if you are deemed not to have reached a level of maturity to vote, serve in the military, smoke, drink, serve on a jury, and so on and so forth, you are too young to decide to jump out of an airplane solo.

Let's go back to post 1. Why does society saying you are mature at 18 mean you have a level of maturity? It doesn't. As other posters have said it merely makes you accountable in litigation. And as many have said, 18 is not the age at which people really mature, if they ever do. So worrying about age is just assigning an arbitrary number to something that can't be quantified.
Also including smoking as something that something a mature person does is pretty absurd. Smoking is a sure sign of lack of rational mental skills.

It would be nice if society could just trust a person's claim that their level of maturity was sufficient for various activities. However, we
have had to set a seemingly arbitrary age limit for certain activities, I believe this is more rational than taking a child's word that their sufficiently mature enough to engage in various activities.

Even though both child and parent may think it's not a problem for the child to ride in the back of a pickup truck while going down the highway, the "Nanny state" has decided that the child is not capable of making such a decision. I agree with this.

I never said that smoking was a mature choice, the fact is there has to be an age where a person is allowed to make all the good and bad choices that they want. Again, it's impossible to judge emotional maturity on a case by case basis, going by chronological maturity, while far from perfect, is the only logical way it can be done.

As I'm sure with most other jumpers, my friends, family, and coworkers love to ask me for an explanation of the latest publicized skydiving accident. In the last week, I have had several people ask me if you can really skydive at 16, and how did this accident happen. I think there's a world of difference to most people hearing about a skydiving accident involving an "adult" as opposed to one involving a "child". I really think the publicity does not (rightly or wrongly) shed a good light on our sport.

As some people have talked about the pitfalls of a "nanny state" the same could be said about the "I want it now" society, I think waiting 2 years is not a big deal.

I didn't mean to imply that you were condoning smoking. I just wanted to point out how "adults" don't necessarily do bright things. I don't care for a nanny state. We have way too many laws now. And your right - there is no real reason why a 16 year old can't wait until 18. The level of maturity needed is the ability to accept that you might die that day, despite the assurances you receive.

[jclalor 12]

pchapman

*** I think there's a world of difference to most people hearing about a skydiving accident involving an "adult" as opposed to one involving a "child". I really think the publicity does not (rightly or wrongly) shed a good light on our sport.

It doesn't take long to find quotes such as the one below, from the US Consumer Products Safety Commission in 2010:

Quote

In 2006, the most recent year where reporting is considered complete, 142 (17 percent) of the
reported 833 ATV-related fatalities were children younger than 16 years of age.

Those whuffos who-over focus on a single "child" dying in skydiving could be reminded of things like this.

(Of course, 142 dead kids says nothing about participant fatality rates, nor addresses whether the activity is considered 'necessary' or 'unnecessary'. Society always accepts more carnage for things deemed normal to do, like driving in cars. To what degree the ATV use was 'just' recreational, vs. useful and normal backwoods & farm transportation, I don't know.)

Most people look at skydiving as the ultimate in knocking on death's door, riding an ATV...not so much. I'm not saying it's right, but the perception of skydiving is far different than what skydivers know it to be.

I occasionally jump at Lodi, anytime there's an accident there the Bay Area press is all over it, always having to highlight what the grand total of fatalities in the last 10 years that this one makes, they hate the place. If a 16 year old ever went in at Lodi, the press would be all over it.

[MikeStafford 0]

ChrisD

***You sound like Mike Stafford.

Give it a rest would ya????

Either contribute to the topic or not???
You can always pm me to bash and make personal attacks, I welcome them, perhaps we can all reach some sort of accord???

But I suspect some are getting a rush from publicly joining in in some kind of witch hunt, the biggest thing being just to want to appear "IN",,,, in the in crowd?? I don't know that's just a wag. You honestly sound like a nice guy. But these non-sequiteor, twittering like meaningless quips are actually interfering with those that have something to say and also interfering with those that want to learn something.

C

Lighten up ChrisD! Most of these guys are idiots. Being compared to me is a privilege and an honor. I don't care to be compared to you though. Keep on posting and I'll keep on reading the parts I understand.

[riggerrob 558]

Doug_Davis

I had my first combat jump at just 17.

As a father I would be okay with letting my daughter start jumping by 16. She will be 2 in March and I've already purchased her her first whitewater kayak, paddle, life jacket, skirt and helmet. Plan to have her running whitewater this summer.

................................................................................

You jumped into battle at age 17????
Where was the battle ... er ... enemy-held territory?

[normiss 620]

That was sort of my intent with the original comments you misunderstood.
I agreed with you.

[Doug_Davis 0]

riggerrob

***I had my first combat jump at just 17.

As a father I would be okay with letting my daughter start jumping by 16. She will be 2 in March and I've already purchased her her first whitewater kayak, paddle, life jacket, skirt and helmet. Plan to have her running whitewater this summer.

................................................................................

You jumped into battle at age 17????
Where was the battle ... er ... enemy-held territory?

Panama, Operation Just Cause 1989.

[airtwardo 6]

So ANYWAY...

Up thread someone was saying something about statistics being utilized creatively, could effectively show most any possible perspective on a point.

Which got me to wondering - what factors are being measured regarding the injury/fatality rate on N00bs vs. Experienced skydivers?

I mean clearly we can't just go by numbers in the file marked 'Checked out no baggage'

More experienced people making more jumps per year would certainly show higher numbers in the loss column, among several other comparison inequities that come to mind off hand.

...IS there a 'fair' set of parameters to look at that would tell us for whom the bell tolls most?

I can't think of a way - too many variables that aren't accurately tracked?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[MikeStafford 0]

airtwardo

So ANYWAY...

Up thread someone was saying something about statistics being utilized creatively, could effectively show most any possible perspective on a point.

Which got me to wondering - what factors are being measured regarding the injury/fatality rate on N00bs vs. Experienced skydivers?

I mean clearly we can't just go by numbers in the file marked 'Checked out no baggage'

More experienced people making more jumps per year would certainly show higher numbers in the loss column, among several other comparison inequities that come to mind off hand.

...IS there a 'fair' set of parameters to look at that would tell us for whom the bell tolls most?

I can't think of a way - too many variables that aren't accurately tracked?

As John Donne clearly said, it tolls for thee. The mortality rate has not changed in several million years. It is still one per person.

[grue 1]

If we take the legal liability out of the question I don't see a problem with 16 year olds jumping, or for that matter 14 year old.


However, courtesy of the fact that western society is full of litigious responsibility-shy cowards, I'd say "the age at which a waiver is enforceable across the board in the city, county, state and nation in which the jump is taking place"

cavete terrae.