sunshine 2 #51 October 11, 2006 You wouldn't have this problem if you would just fly PIA. Anyhoo, that totally sucks. If you were still in IL i would repacke you up for free. Hope the USPA will contact the TSA regarding the issue and maybe get some better training. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #52 October 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteYup, I think that's the best thing we all (especially those of us who travel frequently) can do to help the situation. With turnover in TSA, we may only make a small dent, but at least it's something. Being rude and indignant isn't going to help the situation and it might make it worse. Fact is, we are required, if we want to travel on commercial airlines these days, to jump through the hoops whether we agree with the hoops or not. I only get mad when they give my seat up when I've been on the road longer than I want to be. Yes, but that's the airline. You're their (hopefully loyal) customer. TSA doesn't care if you're loyal to them or not. You're their bitch."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitational 0 #53 October 11, 2006 QuoteQuoteI only get mad when they give my seat up when I've been on the road longer than I want to be. Yes, but that's the airline. You're their (hopefully loyal) customer. TSA doesn't care if you're loyal to them or not. You're their bitch. Ex-Plat on American. One of the ladies from the Admirals Club in Denver was returning from vacation and ended up sitting next to me. Vented a little and she said she'd follow up with the TSA in Denver. she's still off and called me today to put me in touch with them. Yeah, very loyal...they take care of me. ------ Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchyDiver 0 #54 October 12, 2006 QuoteThe overall point in this situation that I want to convey is that the TSA super was not educated well enough to deal with the situation and did not want to look up the procedure as we evident by his 'first hand knowledge' of AADs having an explosive device in them. Now, although I highly doubt that this TSA super had ever read a Cypres User's guide, he/she might very well be proven right if he/she had . Out of curiosity, I went and checked it and guess what? Well, according to the diagram attached, there is is an explosive charge in the cutter assembly. Doesn't matter how big or small it is. Just that there is one in the unit and the super would have been proven right in his/her "First Hand knowledge" from "back in the days", that would have sucked even more Hispas Brothers President HISPA #2, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #55 October 12, 2006 Quoteaccording to the diagram attached, there is is an explosive charge in the cutter assembly According to the diagram you attached, there is a "propellant" in the cutter assembly. There is nothing about an "explosive charge." This may be a just a semantic distinction, but there is an important psychological difference between these two terms. If you say "explosive charge," you conjure up an image of firearms or TNT. If you say "propellant," the more likely image is an aerosol can -- or just compressed air. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrenchyDiver 0 #56 October 12, 2006 I agree with you Mark, 100%. However I am not sure how a TSA would evaluate this though. Hispas Brothers President HISPA #2, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #57 October 12, 2006 Burns fast or explodes, a distinction without much difference. What did matter is that the TSA was shown how small the charge is, and that it is contained. That is why it was officially allowed.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
live2skydive 0 #58 October 12, 2006 I ran into a similar issue while flying from KC to Orlando. The security screener pulled out my rig and said that I would have to "open it up" so that they could look through it. I explained that it wasn't that simple and he said that I wouldn't be able to take it unless I opened the entire rig so he could sort through it. After about 20 minutes and a conversation with his supervisor, I was allowed to take it onboard. Nonetheless, I will probably check my rig from here on out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt1215 0 #59 October 13, 2006 I'd be billing TSA for a repack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitational 0 #60 October 13, 2006 I'm awaiting a response from USPA at this point. They've sent this off to their TSA contact so I'm in the waiting game for now. Flew again today (sans rig) and just had to laugh when the guy in front of me has his tube of toothpaste confiscated. Granted, it wasn't a 3 ounce or less tube but there maybe a squeeze or two left in the tube.------ Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #61 October 13, 2006 (Not pointing at you gravitational, just replying to anything) What's the big deal? Open the damned reserve and suck it up princesses, pay for the repack and be on your way. If you can't afford a repack, you couldn't afford to buy the rig in the first place, and you damn sure can't afford to skydive.. or buy a ticket for a flight on a commercial airliner either. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #62 October 13, 2006 I also travel alot and most my plane journeys are across international waters.. I have to ask why would you tell them it is a parachute if they dont ask? Telling them it is a parachute is just going to draw extra attention to you and your belongings. Right when you say that to them, they then look you up and down and then pay special attention to what you are putting through the machine. I believe if you just go through like it is a everyday thing they are going to take it out, swab it and then let you go on your way. Sure the reason he was an arse may not be because you told him it is a parachute, but you had a chance of that not happening by not drwaing attention to yourself. You were probably the only person that day who actually opened their mouth to one of those TSA guards. I doubt they are use to people speaking to them more than hello, thank you. I am not having a go at you and dont think you did anything there wrong, just from one traveller to another don't say anything unless asked. Innocent until proven guilty. What i really dont understand though is when you were given the choice of opening your reserve or checking, why would you open it? I have given up carrying my rig on just recently cause as we all know flying has changed, security is higher, if you are not allowed to take Liquid products or pain killers or asthma medication on a plane anymore why on earth do you think taking your parachute through security is a good idea? Hell you can not even buy duty free alcohol at half the places in the world anymore. I personally do not blame him for opening your rig. You are travelling first class and taking a parachute on board, you cant blame the guy for being thorough, what if he let something slip by and then he was to blame when hundreds of people die? It sucks travelling around different countries and having to check a rig and see if you are lucky or not come baggage claim but this is what's happened.. Who said the terrorists have not won? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitational 0 #63 October 13, 2006 Quote(Not pointing at you gravitational, just replying to anything) No Worries... QuoteWhat's the big deal? USPA has worked to avoid this from happening to us...and it did.------ Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitational 0 #64 October 13, 2006 QuoteI have to ask why would you tell them it is a parachute if they dont ask? We all have our experience with traveling with our rig. My experience has taught me that bringing attention to it prior to sending it thru will generally have me on my way with not even a swab. Your experience may have taught you different. I travel a ton...this was a very unusual case in my experience having gone thru ORD a dozen or so times (with gear in hand) since I started jumping. This was the first time in ORD that security did anything other than just send me on my way. QuoteWhat i really dont understand though is when you were given the choice of opening your reserve or checking, why would you open it? Read the original again...choice was simply open the reserver or don't fly. Check or unchecked, it was going to be opened.------ Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #65 October 13, 2006 QuoteUSPA has worked to avoid this from happening to us...and it did. gravitational without trying to stir anything up here can I ask you a question? Do you accept the fact that the TSA was within its rights to have your open the reserve container?"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitational 0 #66 October 13, 2006 QuoteDo you accept the fact that the TSA was within its rights to have your open the reserve container? Yes...it does not stop the fact that the TSA super and everyone around him seemed to not be educated at all in handling rigs - was even told 'none of them' had ever seen a parachute go thru security at ORD.------ Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #67 October 13, 2006 Quote Do you accept the fact that the TSA was within its rights to have your open the reserve container? It is in their right to break out the screw drivers and take apart your business laptop, or your cell phone, because all the "wires raised suspicion". That doesn't mean that they should right?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #68 October 13, 2006 QuoteI have to ask why would you tell them it is a parachute if they dont ask? Telling them it is a parachute is just going to draw extra attention to you and your belongings. I have tried it both ways... TELL THEM, if it is a carry on... The time I didn't. The guy behind the XRay started to sweat like crazy. Like water on the forehead sweat and we waited 30 seconds while he looked concerned. I just smiled, thinking, "maybe now I should tell him?" He looks at me and says, "Is this a parachute?" I said "yes". He said, and I am not kidding, "Thank f*&king god, it looks just like a, you know" then says poof as his hands make the universal signal for something exploding. "I did not know if I should move the conveyor belt or just evacuate. Those wires make it look just like you know..." The end result was exactly the same as every other time... They called a supervisor over after the guy asked for a bathroom break. The supervisor started opening the duffel and got intimidated by the silver handles. Every time, they asked me to do all the work soon as they see handles and straps on top. Something about putting the handles facing up in the duffel... I typically will open all the flaps without asking, and that way they can swab everywhere and makes them feel they got farther into the rig without asking... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #69 October 13, 2006 Read the original again...choice was simply open the reserver or don't fly. Check or unchecked, it was going to be opened. For some reason i thought you had said 'either' check it or open it. I would hate for them to demand my rig being opened, they have tried before on my mates, i told the security supervisor that if he opened it he would be breaking a FAA law and be charged, now i did not know what i was talking about but it worked, he then said he woud walk us to the plane and see if our airline would let us take them on, he never followed us the whole way thoughI find them swabbing it all the time, but the three two times in the last few months i have been through o'hare, they really liked swabbing my rig and bags, i found out that if you dont remove your laptop from your bag that they then have to swab all your bags at security. In o'hare though they seemed to know all about cypres from my experiences. anyway, hope you did not have much trouble with an open container as carry on. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #70 October 13, 2006 Yes...it does not stop the fact that the TSA super and everyone around him seemed to not be educated at all in handling rigs - was even told 'none of them' had ever seen a parachute go thru security at ORD. 2 things, they better get wise to parachutes before the nationals next year or there will be a fuck load of open reserves!!!! 2 thing, is ok, so they are not educated on parachutes, i am sure they are not educated on many of things. I know ppl on this site like to carry on and so do many others but there ar alot of people that dont carry their rigs on, with only 200,000 skydivers in the world i cant imagine a rig is a everyday thing they all get to see. I am willing to say that o'hare might see about 100-200 rigs go through departures a year, not all the staff of how many ever there is would have seen a parachute. Security needs to educate themselves with bombs first, i think by ripping apart your rig is one form of education, that supervisor has now learnt about cypres and hopefully he will no longer believe that it is an explosive. I was also taught that cypres 1 had an explosive charge in it, or was that fxc? If it was cypres i was sure that they changed this with cypres 2?? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #71 October 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have to ask why would you tell them it is a parachute if they dont ask? We all have our experience with traveling with our rig. My experience has taught me that bringing attention to it prior to sending it thru will generally have me on my way with not even a swab. Your experience may have taught you different. Usually I don't say anything unless I'm asked, but I tried your approach for the first time yesterday at LAX. Went through without a problem at all. Of course, that happens quite a bit when I don't tell them, too."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 1 #72 October 13, 2006 Quote2 things, they better get wise to parachutes before the nationals next year or there will be a fuck load of open reserves!!!! The funny thing I have flown in and out of ORD with gear numorous times with no major problems, just the normal what is this. I know quite a few people who have, it is BS that they never seen one before...year before last I think I went thru that airport myself at least 4-5 times. Also this is not the first time SDC has hosted Nationals and I dont remember it being that big of a problem when it was held there a few years back. The key will be to make sure that anything that we can do to make sure that all the TSA morons have a clue what a parachute really is. I am willing to bet that the turnover rate is HIGH with them and well...high turn over means clueless workers. Both airports (MDW and ORD) are going to see a large influx of rigs, and this will be a problem if they are not educated.She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #73 October 13, 2006 Quoteand let’s be honest here a Cypres looks like a bomb! It’s a big battery pack with wires running out of it! How often have you seen a "real" bomb? Other than on TV of course. I'm sure you've seen them there all the time...and that obviously makes you an expert. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #74 October 13, 2006 QuoteI typically will open all the flaps without asking, and that way they can swab everywhere and makes them feel they got farther into the rig without asking... If they ask you, "Please open this bag sir/ma'am." Lean over the rig, open the pin flaps and riser covers, lean back, and then blink twice slowly with a stupid look on your face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomvailco 0 #75 October 13, 2006 Quote By chance did you have a copy of the TSA regulation regarding parachutes with you to give to him? . sounds like everyone needs this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
