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Thanatos340

USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment??

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From the USPA website -

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In fact, USPA succeeded in dismissing four of the eight claims lodged against it early in the litigation.



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The lawsuit contained a number of allegations about current and former USPA officials making statements and taking actions unfairly targeting persons and entities affiliated with 1-800-SKYRIDE. These allegations, which formed the basis of the remaining claims, were not likely to be fully resolved without substantial additional delay and cost.



Thoughts? Comments? Anyone? Anyone?

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To continue with Gary's theme I would like to offer just a few suggestions to get the situation under control.

1) If your USPA dues are due don't send them in promptly.

USPA BY-LAWS Section 4: Delinquencies

Notification of failure to pay dues or other indebtedness to USPA, when due, shall be sent to the delinquent member within thirty (30) days following the delinquency. If the said dues or other indebtness shall not have been paid whthin thirty (30) days after mailing of the notice, the membership of said individual or group shall be terminated.

This will get Glenn's and Ed's attention and then we can get RESULTS right now.

2) Stop voting the same people in every year. It really is time for a change.

If you keep doing the same thing you usually get the same results.

3) Demand answers from your RD and ND's now. Take action TODAY like Gary wrote and hold your elected reps. feet to the fire.

I personally think this is just a SMOKE SCREEN to take the focus off of the Executive Committee's BUNGLING of the skyride lawsuit and poor leadership abilities.

I have worked with Jan and the BOD and she really cares about the regular skydiver and especially the new skydivers. Jan knows here stuff and is one of the most intelligent people I have ever known. That being wrote, some members of the current USPA BOD's are threatened by her.

Of all the things the BOD's need to be working on, this impeachment crap is just that, a bunch of CRAP.

It is time to wipe the USPA clean in the next USPA elections.

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The USPA handbook or rules or something like that are up someplace on their website.



It's the Governance Manual and it is available in PDF on this page on the USPA web site. I tried to attach it here, but it exceeds the attachment size for this site.

http://www.uspa.org/publications/manuals.htm.

Procedures followed are Robert's Rules of Order, which are incorporated in the Governance manual by reference.

I agree with a lot of folks that it is time to bring USPA's leadership back in touch with the membership. That's why I'm hauling my ass from the Pacific Northwest all the way to Orlando - the meeting couldn't be much farther from my home and still be in the lower 48, but I'm making time to be there (fortunately I do have the frequent flyer balance to get there for free). For those of you who aren't able to come down in person, your RD is just an email or a phone call away. If it's not this issue. there's probably something on that agenda that is of interest to you as a USPA member. If your RD isn't on the committee that's discussing the issue, send an email to a board member who is on that committee. Share your opinion.

It's a long year and the election cycle doesn't start for several months, but this meeting can begin some interesting momentum. I'm excited. :)
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Wow, I can't believe how much this thread has exploded since I left work yesterday!!! I'm really excited. I definitely think it's time for a "Take Back the USPA" movement!

Someone asked where you get the No Skyride shirts. I'll check with my source and see where we can get some more.

Apparently no official business ever gets accomplished at the General Membership Meeting anyway, because they never have the required "quorum" of 10% of membership present (3000 people). I am looking into this "by proxy" thing. If we can get 300 people to go to this meeting (probably won't happen this year, but maybe next year) and each of those people can get 10 other members to give them their proxy vote, maybe the general membership can actually get something accomplished. Or 150 people, with 20 proxies.

As for the person asking about involvement, I am going to my 1st BOD meeting this year. I have not read the entirety of the lawsuit, but I am familiar with what it says. I also have a question that goes along with that, have you read the USPA governance manual or the GM pledge? I speak to my RD often, and generated an excellent discussion with him at the DZ last month, with a bunch of people in attendance, including several of us who are going to the meeting. I do vote in the elections. Hopefully the electronic voting option gets approved and that way more people will vote and have their voices heard.

I can't believe they discontinued the USPA e-mail that goes to the entire BOD because they didn't want to hear from the members. That is disheartening. I have just started getting involved, but the more I learn the more disturbed I am with the current system. I think the more people that get excited and get involved, and TALK to others at their DZ about these issues is what is needed. Healthy discussion can't do anything but help.

Edited to add: thanks for the links Krisanne. i think I'm gonna order a copy of Robert's Rules. ;)

Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091

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There's also a different set of designs that I've seen advertised by one of my MySpace friends... don't know much about this company but they make anti-Skyride shirts so they've got that going for them! Scroll down - the Skyride ones are on the bottom.

http://www.flyingloomembroidery.com/page5.php
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Thanks Mark.

Yep, same section and verse in the April 2006 version of the same.


SECTION 4: IMPEACHMENT
Any USPA Director may be removed for cause by a
two-thirds vote of the members present at any BOD
meeting, provided that such action was contained in the proposed agenda of the meeting.



Interesting. If nothing else, the word "Impeachment" is being misused somewhat in the USPA GOVERNANCE MANUAL.

While not uncommon, the popular use of "impeach" as a synonym of "throw out" (even if by due process) does not accord with the legal meaning of the word. The accurate usage of the word "impeach" or "impeachment" is when an official is impeached, that is, formally accused of wrongdoing. For example, from recent history, during his term as President of the U.S.A., Bill Clinton was impeached (by the House), but the process ended there as the Senate voted not to proceed with hearings that could have resulted in his removal from office.

Anyway, in this instance. I'd have liked to seen more of what constitutes "for cause". Also what will get it "on the agenda"; other than the inference that it is all up to the whim of Glenn Bangs.

It will be interesting to see how this goes down and what, if anything, is stated in the published minutes as to "why" or will it be just a "vote" and this is the way it went... "she stays / she goes".

:|

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So what i want to know is what are the odds of you actually being impeached, and successfully removed from the BOD? I mean Clinton was impeached but was not removed from office right? Jan you must have a pretty good idea of who on the board is with you and who is against you? Are there more than 2/3 of them against you, and if you are removed will we the members be informed of who voted for you, and who voted against you? Seems like a pretty good way for me to decide who I'm going to vote for in the elections. If you voted against Jan I will not vote for you in the elections PERIOD.

In fact i think that is the message i will send my RD/ND's do you think if they got about a 1000 e-mails with just that one sentence they would get the message?????

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There is only one thing that will work, and that is to contact your Regional Director with your opinion. Anything less and you are simply all talk and no action.



Well Ted, something is strangely afoot here at the circle K, word on the street is my RD Kip Lowmiller was asked to step down, yet as the prop turns, has it that he refused to step down and was going if front of the full BOD in a few weeks and that info is from "some what" trusted sources, (whom I think are being told what they want to hear), but I was asked to not say anything about that in public, so don't tell anyone. So with such wild talk about all that down on spinning prop street, I'm not real inclined to call up my RD and trust anything he or some ND's, have to say on USPA business, based on what is known fact so far and with such wild talk around, it's to hard to know who's word to believe, you have to wait for action to happen to know the real truth.

In fact I have good reason to believe that some players of the powers that be, would like to try to pull a fast one on the membership of the mideastern region and insert a hand picked "puppet player" of their choosing at this up coming meeting, should the chance to do so come up. Depends on who you ask or believe, if you look close you can see bits of egg still on their face, depending on your point of view.

Somtimes it's best to talk with other USPA bod members who are not known to be on the take or have a personal interest in the out come of a regional or national issue, as some BOD members do.

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USPA headquarters turned off the email address fullboard@uspa.org because one or more BOD members asked them to, because they do not want to hear from USPA members.



Can we see a vote on that, who asked to turn off our voice? I know who I voted for and if any of them want my vote again they will hear the membership.

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Anything less and you are simply all talk and no action.



You know is pretty bad when you talk to newer BOD members who tell you that they are ready to step down and not even wait till the next election because of the "good old boy" network being so intrenched that it's impossible to make any real change and that in his opinion it is a waste of time, unless your one of the "cool kids" or "Glenn's girls".

Could this be why we see many people all full fire and ready to change the world, get a seat for a term and then by the end of the term their so burnt out on the bullshit they have to wade thru and blow jobs they have to give to get anything done, that their done spinning their wheels with USPA and they don't run again or nor do they want to hold the seat as a write in.

So how do we take back OUR org, when they don't care to hear from our voice and turn off the email, who should stay and who should go? Who should we believe? To me and I think others who have been around for a long time, it's clear to us who holds seats on the USPA because it's some big ego stroke for them and has been for a long time and this is why they keep in the fore front all the time and maintain a full time PR program to remind everyone how great they are for skydiving.

And then we have those who really work for the membership and do the right thing, it's up you, the member, to figuare it out and send in your vote.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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and if you are removed will we the members be informed of who voted for you, and who voted against you?



Regardless of the outcome, I'd like to know which way each board member votes.



Does anyone know if BOD members voting records are public information and published anywhere? From previous meeting minutes, they don't say who voted which way on an issue, just that a motion passed or not with the record (ie. Previous meeting minutes adopted, 19-0) or something to that effect.

I have a feeling that the impeachment discussion might go into a closed session, since it apparently involves Skyride and the lawsuit settlement is not public information.

Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091

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and if you are removed will we the members be informed of who voted for you, and who voted against you?



Regardless of the outcome, I'd like to know which way each board member votes.



Me too! Unfortunately if they do impeach Jan, we will probably never know because she is the one of only Board members that will answer those questions when asked and call out those that don't always tell the truth about how they really voted.

I would like to see Glenn Bangs impeached for his mishandling of the skyride issue. A request to add the impeachment of Glenn to the Agenda has been sent to Sherry Butcher, the Secretary of the USPA executive board.

Can't wait to see was we are going to be told as to why Glenn can't/shouldn't/won't be impeached. Oh wait, they don't care what the members want. [:/]

Judy
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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I would like to see Glenn Bangs impeached for his mishandling of the skyride issue. A request to add the impeachment of Glenn to the Agenda has been sent to Sherry Butcher, the Secretary of the USPA executive board. [:/]

Judy



What evidence is there that Glenn (or anyone else) mishandled the Skyride issue?

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But who are we going to vote for?



That is for you to figuare out as a member.

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One or two people won't create change. A full slate of candidates, each with the same goal, presented to the membership as a new beginning... that could create change...



We agree, maybe you'll see more names in the ring this time? Maybe not.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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What evidence is there that Glenn (or anyone else) mishandled the Skyride issue?



Well, lets see....First we LOST the suit with skyride and if I recall correctly Glenn's visit the Pennridge dz didn't help the situation out any. Glenn is the president of the USPA executive committee. I hold him accountable.


J
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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What evidence is there that Glenn (or anyone else) mishandled the Skyride issue?



Well, lets see....First we LOST the suit with skyride and if I recall correctly Glenn's visit the Pennridge dz didn't help the situation out any. Glenn is the president of the USPA executive committee. I hold him accountable.


J



Settling <> Lost. Settling is closer to surrender.

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In fact i think that is the message i will send my RD/ND's do you think if they got about a 1000 e-mails with just that one sentence they would get the message?????



If the USPA faces more litigation because they don't impeach Jan, your 1000 emails won't change their vote.

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Well, lets see....First we LOST the suit with skyride and if I recall correctly Glenn's visit the Pennridge dz didn't help the situation out any. Glenn is the president of the USPA executive committee. I hold him accountable.



In the lawsuit against USPA you don't see Glenn's name in there as much as somebody elses.... [:/] It's weird that the people who want to hang whoever was responsible for the skyride lawsuit, also are defending Jan.....tough to do both

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I think it's time for a "Take Back the USPA" movement...



This is a "devil's advocate" response. Don't shoot the messenger.

I offer this because there's a lot of lynch-mob type talk going on, and nobody seems to be considering what may be the other side of the argument.

Let's say that Jan's public comments were the cause of USPA losing four counts on the Skyride lawsuit, which cost the organization (that's us) a lot of money (that's ours).

So, what's wrong, then, with ousting the person that caused that loss? Wouldn't this be just like any other business getting rid of an executive whose poor performance has caused business problems?

If you were the holder of Enron stock which became worthless because of executive malfeasance, then I'd bet that you would be ready to terminate and hold accountable those executives. So how come everyone here seems to want to do the opposite with Jan, and save the BOD member who caused the financial loss to USPA?

Okay, I'm done being the devil's advocate now. Please don't shoot me. These are not my personal feelings. But I think the question needs to be asked.

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I think it's time for a "Take Back the USPA" movement...



This is a "devil's advocate" response. Don't shoot the messenger.

I offer this because there's a lot of lynch-mob type talk going on, and nobody seems to be considering what may be the other side of the argument.

Let's say that Jan's public comments were the cause of USPA losing four counts on the Skyride lawsuit, which cost the organization (that's us) a lot of money (that's ours).

So, what's wrong, then, with ousting the person that caused that loss? Wouldn't this be just like any other business getting rid of an executive whose poor performance has caused business problems?

If you were the holder of Enron stock which became worthless because of executive malfeasance, then I'd bet that you would be ready to terminate and hold accountable those executives. So how come everyone here seems to want to do the opposite with Jan, and save the BOD member who caused the financial loss to USPA?

Okay, I'm done being the devil's advocate now. Please don't shoot me. These are not my personal feelings. But I think the question needs to be asked.



Devils advocate to your devils advocate. How are her public statements any different than anyone elses?


Edit: My "Take Back the USPA" sentiments are not based on this incident, as we don't have any information about this incident. In fact they are based on several YEARS of ineffective representation by several long term members of the board, and extremely suspect behavior by the same members of the board to further their own gains, and protect their network.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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What evidence is there that Glenn (or anyone else) mishandled the Skyride issue?



Well, lets see....First we LOST the suit with skyride and if I recall correctly Glenn's visit the Pennridge dz didn't help the situation out any. Glenn is the president of the USPA executive committee. I hold him accountable.


J



What evidence is there that Glenn (or anyone else) mishandled the Skyride issue?
In other words, an absence of facts doesn't make conjecture accurate, does it?
I'd truly like to know. USPA-bashing is popular, but I've yet to see facts that actually merit the very personal accusations made against the BOD. And the same holds true for whatever reason the USPA may have for intitiating impeachment proceedings against Jan or anyone else on the BOD.

If you hold Glenn responsible as president of the executive committee, then you must also hold Jay, B.J., Jan, Sherry, Scott, Lee accountable as well. The president doesn't have absolute authority. By the same token, someone will have to present evidence (not opinion) of wrongdoing on Jan's (or Glenn's) part in order to successfully conclude impeachment proceedings against anyone. It's easy to become emotional in the absence of facts, which is why our system *generally* works pretty well, because it makes an attempt to put emotions aside.
One argument always wins, another loses. Being on one side or another doesn't have to always equate to "mishandling."
I for one, would like facts or more information about why Glenn (or anyone else) feels this is an appropriate course of action. As to why it's on the agenda...well...that's how Robert's Rules function. Anyone in an organized environment understands this.

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I for one, would like facts or more information about why Glenn (or anyone else) feels this is an appropriate course of action.
As to why it's on the agenda...well...that's how Robert's Rules function. Anyone in an organized environment understands this.

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You're NOT the only one...:)

I for one would like to know WHY the facts concerning the inter workings of OUR organization, are always so difficult to obtain. :S











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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My name was mentioned in the lawsuit more than just once:however, I was misquoted, my words were taken out of context, I was quoted on stuff that was not said or even posted by me.

All of the things that was sited for posting were done when I wan not a USPA RD and all of these things were posted before the lawsuit anyway. When did it not become OK to state the TRUTH in this Country.

I was not even contacted by USPA attorneys (2 differnent firms btw) to answer the alligations. So how was due dilligence preformed? How can anybody take the rap for something when all the questions haven't been answered in this matter?

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What evidence is there that Glenn (or anyone else) mishandled the Skyride issue?



because we lost.[:/]

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If you hold Glenn responsible as president of the executive committee, then you must also hold Jay, B.J., Jan, Sherry, Scott, Lee accountable as well.



okay then, we will hold them all accountable.

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The president doesn't have absolute authority.



You might want to tell some presidents that. :S

Have you ever been to a USPA board meeting?


judy
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

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