Fastest way to fall on Belly?

[rehmwa 2]

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I find that an appropriately timed (and spaced from the formation) stand is quite effective.

Aside from the danger that this poses to you and everyone else on your jump, I'm also yet to be convinced of the effectiveness of this strategy. Let's say you pull it off, and you don't slam into someone's back at 50mph, what next? You're now down level with the formation, but you still don't have the skills to fly with it, so you float back up above it again.

Get some coaching on fall rate control, body position and diving down to a formation. Learn how to do these things properly and safely. Not only will you no longer need to resort to dangerous stunts like going into a stand on a belly jump, but you'll also find that they're way more effective than that dangerous stunt you wanted to pull.

Totally agree, advice to stand or sit, etc during a RW dive is negligent and dangerous. Better to learn to fly better.

How would he like it if someone advised a freeflyer to "just cork a bit - but be careful" when they go low?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skyninja 0]

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I find that an appropriately timed (and spaced from the formation) stand is quite effective.
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Aside from the danger that this poses to you and everyone else on your jump, I'm also yet to be convinced of the effectiveness of this strategy. Let's say you pull it off, and you don't slam into someone's back at 50mph, what next? You're now down level with the formation, but you still don't have the skills to fly with it, so you float back up above it again.

Get some coaching on fall rate control, body position and diving down to a formation. Learn how to do these things properly and safely. Not only will you no longer need to resort to dangerous stunts like going into a stand on a belly jump, but you'll also find that they're way more effective than that dangerous stunt you wanted to pull.
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Totally agree, advice to stand or sit, etc during a RW dive is negligent and dangerous. Better to learn to fly better.

How would she like it if someone advised a freeflyer to "just cork a bit - but be careful" when they go low?

I am not advising the OP to freefly on RW jumps, I merely stated that it has been effective on the few occasions in which I have chosen to use one.

I will not accept criticism of my flying ability without both having you see me fly, and witnessing your (not insubstantial, I'm sure) skills first. That being said, I agree that there are few circumstances in which this should be considered as an option. Small formation work from a Cessna going to 10.5 is one of them for me - I simply do not have enough time to swoop down to the formation before the dive is over, and I'd rather not waste everyone's time if the exit has been botched (which was the source of the problem -and no, not because of me). I am not as gravitationally inclined as most of my jump partners for RW, I compensate accordingly, and it helps the formation get built.

If anybody who knows me and has ever jumped with me feels that I am unsafe in the air with them, I would hope that they'd feel comfortable enough to have a conversation with me about their concerns.

As far as advice to become unstable in order to lose altitude ("cork a bit"), it is not comparable to a controlled change in rate of descent.

I will submit that my best solution to the problem is to set up the exit myself, and that preventing the problem is more efficient than having to fix it.

Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure.

CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!"

[rehmwa 2]

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I will submit that my best solution to the problem is to set up the exit myself, and that preventing the problem is more efficient than having to fix it.

great comment - don't mind mine too personally, it's a general comment and best fits your last bit here

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andievh 0]

Don't have 1000's of jumps but a few last diver experience from King Air (small door) on 8 ways up, skinny ass (focussed required with heavy uncles) and some awesome coaches/instructors at my dz:

Couple of things I do:

1. Body surface: Bigger body surface = slower fall rate. Smaller body surface = faster fall rate. The way I achieve small surface:

- close legs
- point toes
- arch hard
- put hands on back behind rig

You will still be able to control forward/backward movement by using (closed) legs and left right by using shoulders.

2. Getting to formation: This is most crucial part. Someone mentioned in earlier reply. First look where you are going. Don't fly at them directly, but rather make your stopping point couple of meters away and then move towards formation slowly in controlled manner. The last thing you wanna do is bomb your mates. This can be deadly.

3. Stopping: I put the brakes on early to be able to stop by the time I reach formation - make body surface big to brake, so wide legs, wide student arms, open hands, de-arch.

Then there are things like approaching the formation, flying in your quadrant/air space, awareness of other flyers, etc. The best advice would be to talk to your local instructor.

[DougH 270]

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Small formation work from a Cessna going to 10.5 is one of them for me - I simply do not have enough time to swoop down to the formation before the dive is over...

You can't dive to a formation in time from 10.5 but you have the flying skills arive at a formation using a stand??!!

Interesting.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[longtall 0]

Damn thast harsh: and the jumpsuit is PEACH color!

" 90 right, five miles then cut."---Pukin Buzzards

[davelepka 4]

This thread is fucked already, and FULL of bad advice.

There is a technique to diving to a formation, and it's not something that can be taught on the internet.

You do not want to do any sort of freeflying to try ot get to a formation. You need to stay in control, and keep the formation in sight at all times.

You will learn to close the gap SLOWLY at first, and as you become more comfortable with diving, you can ramp up the speed. During any dive, aim off to the side of the person/formation you are diving too so if you over do it, you don't hit anyone, you just fly past them.


There is only one way to learn to dive to formations. Do a two way with a coach, or moderately experienced jumper. Have them exit first, and give them a few seconds (3 or 4) before you exit. Dive down to them, and as soon as you get there, have them drop down and back by 50 or 100 feet, and you get another chance to dive down and close the gap. Repeat as needed.

Diving is a skill, and requires training and practice. Many jumpers have been badly hurt by divers who carried too much speed, and crashed into the formation. It's not hard to build up a speed differential of 20 or 30 mph, and if you hit a formation while going 30 mph faster than they are, I'm sure you could imagine it would not be good.

[Dumpster 0]

What works for me - (And there's alot of good advice here - )
1 - Speak/work with other experienced jumpers at your DZ. They know you and your skill level, it's a good thing.

What I do - Depending on the length of the dive you need to make - I put my arms behind my back and basicall cup the bottom of my rig (care not to dislodge your hacky-)
and extend my legs. I wear booties, and use my legs to control direstion and bend my knees to control pitch. Takes some practice, but that is what works for me with relative safety. Flare above and off to the side of the base, then appraoch as normal and fly to your grips. Discuss this with your peers, and enjoy!! Number 1 - Be safe! Number 2 - Have fun!!

Easy Does It

[LloydDobbler 2]

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This thread is fucked already, and FULL of bad advice.

There is a technique to diving to a formation, and it's not something that can be taught on the internet.

You do not want to do any sort of freeflying to try ot get to a formation. You need to stay in control, and keep the formation in sight at all times.

You will learn to close the gap SLOWLY at first, and as you become more comfortable with diving, you can ramp up the speed. During any dive, aim off to the side of the person/formation you are diving too so if you over do it, you don't hit anyone, you just fly past them.


There is only one way to learn to dive to formations. Do a two way with a coach, or moderately experienced jumper. Have them exit first, and give them a few seconds (3 or 4) before you exit. Dive down to them, and as soon as you get there, have them drop down and back by 50 or 100 feet, and you get another chance to dive down and close the gap. Repeat as needed.

Diving is a skill, and requires training and practice. Many jumpers have been badly hurt by divers who carried too much speed, and crashed into the formation. It's not hard to build up a speed differential of 20 or 30 mph, and if you hit a formation while going 30 mph faster than they are, I'm sure you could imagine it would not be good.

Best post in this thread so far. (Along with DougH, whose point about the right tool for the job is spot-on.)

Even though I have lower jump numbers, I'll chime in, because this topic caused me (featherweight) a lot of grief when I had your jump numbers. My g/f had the same problem. Most important point: the best way to learn to dive is simply to get out and do it. Grab a coach, and go out with them like Dave suggested.

To reinforce some stuff said above:

- Like others said, focus on leveling first, THEN getting to the formation - if you aim straight for the formation, bad shit can (and will) happen. Aim to the side, then close the horizontal distance when you're on level. Pull out of the dive if you feel like you've misjudged.

- Put on the brakes early, and stairstep it down. They tell you this in your student training, but it never seems to sink in until you go low on a formation and have to get back up.

- Of course, talk to instructors at the DZ. They'll be able to steer you in the right direction better than anything any of us have just said.

One big point: Diving will most likely feel weird at first. Squirrely, at best. It takes some getting used to, having your head lower than your feet. Just keep working on it, and know that it can be done, and you can do it.

Tunnels don't work for this one - the best (& only) way to learn it is just by doing it. Get some coaching and go to it. If you do belly work, it's a skill that will be immeasurably useful.

Signatures are the new black.