How tiredness affects you

[andym148 2]

Sunset load after a long day doing AFF, we had been doing back to backs with the odd 20min call in there for refuels. We thought we were ok and still quite alert, it never dawned on me that i was this tired.

Watch the video, and see if you can pick up what we failed for about 60 secs to spot.

He had been sat in the boot all the way up to altitude and no one had noticed, green light on and knelt in the door......

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgQxNbasxJw

Could have ended up so differently, check yourself, check your friends and check everybody.

At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!!

[riggerpaul 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgQxNbasxJw

(You forgot to close the URL tag)

[ParaStyx 0]

Close call! Check? Check! & Double Check?!

Stay safe

Blue skies!

[labrys 0]

Quote

Could have ended up so differently, check yourself, check your friends and check everybody.

Good catch. I'm sure that eventually someone will say "that could never happen to me". I hope that they have someone looking out for them too.

Owned by Remi #?

[DocPop 1]

Was this in the UK?

If that slipped through the rigorous flightline checks there, imagine how easily it could happen in less strict countries...

I've caught the same thing myself.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[andym148 2]

The Jump was at Skydive Elsinore in December last year, we look back at it now and think how did it take us sooooooo long to spot it. I guess flight line checks are there for a reason, even if there not in the rules, its good to get a quick once over before boarding the plane.
Just think if he hadn't moved to the front of the door to where we saw him.....

At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!!

[MikeStafford 0]

The real mistake was after he fixed the chest strap. Notice he didn't bother to check anything else?

[ChrisD 0]

What a great vid to add to the collection!
With this individual,.. I want to understand was it a mistake? As compared with some temporary way of fastening his chest strap? I ask because I have seen some in the past just quickly put the chest strap through the buckle, to get it out of the way,... with the intention of completely threading it at some later time?

thanks for this!!!

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[andym148 2]

I'm not sure what he was thinking? He was not part of our group, he was jumping with his friends. Prob a quick call, and rushed to make sunset load and mid routed by accident.

At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!!

[Boogers 0]

Forgot to check his chest strap.

But didn't forget to do his hand-slaps with his buddies.

Priorities askew!

[sammielu 3]

I check myself at least 3 times each jump and try to see everyone else's on the plane each load. It bugs me when people wrap the excess over the buckle part and you can't tell if it's right!

Just watching this video gets my adrenaline going, that 'oh no something's wrong!' feeling.

[DocPop 1]

MikeStafford

The real mistake was after he fixed the chest strap. Notice he didn't bother to check anything else?

Good point, but the thing that really f**ked this guy was the fact that he half did his chest strap. It was done enough through the keeper to look at a casual glance like it was done, but functionally it might as well have not been there.

Why do that?

Cheststraps should either be done properly, or not done up - no middle ground. It serves no purpose and, as this case shows, causes problems.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[mcstain 0]

Well spotted!! I'm only new to jumping, but I do up my chest strap completely as soon as I first put my rig on. I then check it a few more times on the way to the plane and during the climb visually and by tugging on it with a thumb on the inside section of the strap near my sternum.

My question is whether in the situation shown in the video, would the strap have loosened with a tug from a thumb, or would it have had enough tension to seem like it was ok? I guess this is something I can try at the dropzone tomorrow.

[jumpsalot-2 2]

As it was only held by the elastic stow, it probably would have given way, and he may have noticed. When I give a tug test, I also look down at the buckle for proper routing. Seems in my opinion, even after the fix it was still too loose. No freeflying there I hope.

Life is short ... jump often.

[MikeStafford 0]

DocPop

***The real mistake was after he fixed the chest strap. Notice he didn't bother to check anything else?

Good point, but the thing that really f**ked this guy was the fact that he half did his chest strap. It was done enough through the keeper to look at a casual glance like it was done, but functionally it might as well have not been there.

Why do that?

Cheststraps should either be done properly, or not done up - no middle ground. It serves no purpose and, as this case shows, causes problems.

You are almost right! But when you said "or not done at all" you went astray. When you climb aboard the aircraft your gear should be ready to exit. That exit may be only a minute after takeoff at 1500 ft when someone's reserve opens and tangles with the tail with an open door.
And any time you find you made one mistake, look carefully for all the other mistakes you might have made. As much of a hassle it would have been to make a g-oaround that was the proper action to take, and get a complete pincheck during that time.

[ChrisD 0]

andym148

I'm not sure what he was thinking? He was not part of our group, he was jumping with his friends. Prob a quick call, and rushed to make sunset load and mid routed by accident.

I'm not making any hidden comment or anything here!
I bet if anyone was in this kind of habit this has changed how they think about some behaviors.

Again great job!!!

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[DocPop 1]

MikeStafford

You are almost right! But when you said "or not done at all" you went astray. When you climb aboard the aircraft your gear should be ready to exit.

I agree with you entirely; when on the plane - be ready to exit.

My point was that if you're waiting on the ground for a load etc there is no reason to half do up your cheststrap. On or off. That's the rule. If its on - you're good to go, if it's off at least you make it easier for someone to spot.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[aeroflyer 0]

If you don't do up your chest strap, I hear it is not easy to do up in free-fall.

I have also heard of putting your arm across and grabbing the main lift web on the other side, while pulling your PC with other hand. Truth to this?

[labrys 0]

aeroflyer

If you don't do up your chest strap, I hear it is not easy to do up in free-fall.

I have also heard of putting your arm across and grabbing the main lift web on the other side, while pulling your PC with other hand. Truth to this?

Here's a very in depth discussion:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4495234

Owned by Remi #?

[ghost47 18]

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My point was that if you're waiting on the ground for a load etc there is no reason to half do up your cheststrap. On or off. That's the rule. If its on - you're good to go, if it's off at least you make it easier for someone to spot.

I could be wrong, but I have never encountered someone who purposely misrouted their chest strap as some sort of convenience while putting their gear on.

It's happened to me twice. Once I caught it myself on a gear check around 10,000 feet, and once someone else caught it for me before boarding. Neither time did I mean to do it half-way --- both times, I simply messed up.

[labrys 0]

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I could be wrong, but I have never encountered someone who purposely misrouted their chest strap as some sort of convenience while putting their gear on.

I've seen it. I watched a guy step into his leg straps and put his arms through his MLW, then bend over to put his booties on... chest strap dangling, he draped it through the buckle and carried on. He tightened his leg straps, looked down at his chest, and then headed for the plane. I vectored him off behind the boarding area to remind him that he hadn't finished.

It *seems* so stupid to do something like that, but we're human. Most of us drive through (or almost drive through) red lights or stop signs a few times in our driving careers... or cross a street without really looking, or something equally as potentially fatal.

Owned by Remi #?

[NickyCal 17]

Newbie question: Do you guys wear helmets all the way up? I fasten mine on before heading to the plane and look like a goonie because I leave it on all the way. Everybody else takes theirs off and holds until getting ready to exit. I wear mine in the plane. If I have to get out fast, I want my head protected. Learning to go with my own instincts in this sport (life and death!), but validation is nice, too

[labrys 0]

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Newbie question: Do you guys wear helmets all the way up? I fasten mine on before heading to the plane and look like a goonie because I leave it on all the way. Everybody else takes theirs off and holds until getting ready to exit.

I don't always wear my helmet in the plane, but when I don't, I don't "hold it"... at least not while I still have my seat belt on. I secure it to my chest strap so that it won't impale my next door neighbor in an emergency. After seat belts are off, I often remove my helmet so that I can talk to people more easily, particularly if I have a student.

I always put my helmet back on before the door opens and people start to exit. If we're stopping along the ride up to let hop-n-pops exit, then I put my helmet back on. If we're doing 2 passes to let tandems out first, then I put my helmet back on before the door opens.

If I'm on a fun jump with no students around and a single pass, then I take my helmet off (unless it's really cold) when I take my seat belt off and then I put it back on before I set up in the door.

Owned by Remi #?

[Pablo.Moreno 0]

Affect my depth perception, I bail a lot more often on the last few hrs of the day on a real busy day.
Chain of though,
clear space check, clear landing area check, right altitude check (dietter) right IP check, as I am rotating I cant really tell by my sight picture if I am at the right altitude... Bail ( normally this happens when I am tired, but I dont feel tired if you know what I mean).

Your sense go dull when you are tired.

[Croc 0]

Always wear mine, all the time, buckled up and snug.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy