Rushed?

[Tuna-Salad 0]

During a jump this weekend I was next to last on the aircraft before an AFF and thus assumed that we could be pretty far away on the jump run. I stuck my head out to check the spot and instantly was being yelled at to "go". Not the first time it has happend but I don't want to go until I've checked the spot and determined it to be safe, that and I don't like being rushed esp with something still relatively new to me. What is with the rushing people to go? It's not like I spent 10 minutes in the door sight seeing. Should I of let them go in front of me or what? Since in this sport you are ultimately responsible for your own safety I see nothing wrong with taking a few seconds to be a little more cautious. I think more I don't understand why people are so in a rush.. adrenaline could be a factor I'm sure but rushing people to jump is inviting a mistake in my opinion, forgetting something etc but what do I know. Any thoughts? Gripes? Comments?

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[pilotdave 0]

Ignore em. But make sure that you aren't waiting 5 seconds, then checking the spot, looking for traffic, then starting your exit count. If you're sticking your head out the door right after the group before you leaves, you should have time to take a quick peek and start your exit.

Dave

[Tuna-Salad 0]

I normally like to give people 7 seconds or more since I'm still new a seperation is a big deal to me. I've also been wanting to improve my exits since they all suck, so I would like to take a few seconds to get in the door, take a breath and quickly run through what I'd planned to do for the skydive. In short in trying to improve my exits, I think 5 seconds of prep time without someone yelling at me to go would be to my benefit. Of course I'm sure some of you will say "Get on the plane ready to skydive"

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[peregrinerose 0]

How are you counting your 7 seconds? Is it 7 seconds from the moment that the group before you leaves the plane to the moment you leave the plane or something else?

7 seconds in some conditions may be fine, in others it may be too long, in others it may be not nearly long enough. Sit down with an instructor and ask exactly how separation time is determined and how you should know what appropriate separation time should be.

Yes, you should be looking out the door every time you jump. Generally, I'm looking over the backs of the people who are exiting just before me, as they are leaving, my head is following them out the door as I am mentally counting 1mississippi... etc, so I can watch them leave, watch for traffic, check the spot, look for clouds, make my climbout, and exit with the appropriate separation time.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[pilotdave 0]

Well, proper time between groups should be calculated for the current winds. Usually what really happens is people say something like 5 seconds (or even less) when the winds aloft are really light and maybe 10 seconds when the winds are really high. Sometimes with really fast planes, significantly less time is needed than with really slow planes. But the point is, 7 seconds is completely arbitrary. Might be enough, might be too little, or might be ridiculously long. Most of the time, it sounds like a pretty good number. But just make sure you're talking about the time from when the group before you drops off the plane to the time you drop off the plane. If you wait 7 seconds, then climb out for a poised exit, you might be taking too long and messing up the spot for the people behind you.

So basically, find out how long they want between groups. If you count out loud and exit right when you reach the magic number, nobody can complain.

Dave

[Tuna-Salad 0]

Depending on my exit, if I'm doing a diving exit I will set up and just count 1... 2... 3... etc. while keeping an eye on the person who went out before me. For a poised exit it usually takes me a bit to get into position. I think this is because I have not done very many, which is what I'm trying to focus on now. Some of it is because I don't think I am used to walking around in a plane that is moving, turning etc haha like sea legs. My exits are terrible though. Out of 25 skydives I have only seen the plane once and only then it was very brief because I usually spin/turn 2-3 times. I think I am also looking down so am trying to concentrate on not doing that. Pretty much all I want is 1 good exit where I can stand there and say "Ok head up, ready, set, arch" without someone yelling @ me to go. Some people have also suggested a to try a floating exit. I have been slacking in that I've only done 2 coach jumps since out of AFF primarily because I would rather spend $100 to jump twice than once and I don't have as much cash as I really need to get anywhere with it. HaHa I will probably never have my own rig.

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[peregrinerose 0]

First, I'd suggest doing coaching jumps.... think about your solos... what do you gain from them? You are aware that you are turning, but you don't have the feedback to know how to fix it. Solos don't teach you much at all... you'll gain more to have another person jump with you (until license that has to be a coach, but once you have that license, do a lot of 2 ways with more experienced jumpers). You'll progress MUCH faster as a jumper to get that feedback.

You'll gain 100x more from a coaching jump than a solo, so it's worth 2x the price
Separation time does not relate to your exit... chances are you are taking far longer than you think on your poised exits... maybe 15-20 seconds while you watch the other group, take your time to climb out, get set up, and finally leave the plane. Get a good coach, and spend a LOT of time on the ground, at the mock up, with a coach, running the poised exit over and over and over and over and over (get the gist) on the ground. The more you make it feel right on the ground, the better it will be once you are actually in the plane. Ground prep time is every bit as important (if not moreso) than the actual skydive, and you're really missing out on that if you don't have someone working with you.

Once the exit feels more fluid, it will feel a lot more comfortable once you are in the plane.

My thoughts are this..

First.... you are getting used to people yelling to go and thinking it's just about your time in the door, so you do your own thing and ignore them.... what happens if you really have a gear emergency, a pilot chute sneaking out or something and people are yelling GO for a real emergency... that could potentially harm both you and everyone else on the plane.

Second... your time in the door... if you really are taking too long to get ready to leave, it makes it less likely that you'll have a good spot for yourself. You're still a newbie, why give yourself an out landing if you don't need to?

Third.... lack of coaching. The more solos you do, the more bad habits you are going to have to un-learn later and the slower you will progress. Knock it off with the solos and get some coaching Spend a LOT of time on the ground working on those exits so it feels better when you get to altitude in the plane.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[wmw999 2,116]

One thing to consider about solos is that he is gaining experience in how the canopy opens, in how the canopy flies, and in landings, without having to combine that experience with the new stuff that a coach might bring.

Sometimes doing easy jumps for awhile will consolidate some stuff. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. No, you don't advance quite as quickly, but you might end up with more automatic information at your disposal if you need it, like in a cutaway or an off landing.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[MarkM 0]

They're not telling you to go because of adrenaline, it's because they have a student and don't want their spot hosed by you spending more time than you need in the door. You should talk to them, find out how much time you should be counting before you exit do that.

[peregrinerose 0]

I have worked with a lot of people with many solos and few coach jumps. Every one of them has had backsliding issues and often assymetry issues, problems with their exits... they just keep making the same mistakes over and over with no idea how to fix them, so they keep doing it repeatedly. Then as an instructor, I don't just have to teach, I have to break ingrained habits, which is MUCH harder to do. So at this level I do see lots of solos as a bad thing.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ZeG 0]

Are you guys having someone act as jumpmaster on jumprun? In our caravan usually an instructor is doing it, since she leaves last with the student or tandems anyway. I just get ready in the door and wait for her sign, she checks after every single jumper and has an eye on seperation. Once she gives the ok I am out. Since I know she is very exact when it comes to spotting and looking for separation I completely trust her.
The whole thing speeds the exits up since ONE person is looking and not everybody for himself.

[marcandalysse 0]

Save up your $$ and do more coach jumps! You have some incredible coaches at ZHills, take full advantage of them....if you want longevity in this sport take it slow....and learn from them!

marc

"The reason angels can fly is that they take themselves so lightly." --GK Chesterton

[peregrinerose 0]

What if that one person isn't on the load?

You need to be sure that YOU are comfortable with the spot and YOU know how to spot. It takes less than one second just before climbout to look down and verify with your own eyes.

Blindly relying on someone else won't teach you anything.

It cracks me up when I jump at a cessna DZ and jumpers show up from bigger area DZs and literally wait for a green light (that doesn't exist in the cessna) and have absolutely no idea how to spot an aircraft. One was afraid to stick his head out the door and look. It was funny and sad all at the same time.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ZeG 0]

The caravan doesn't go up if there are not atleast 9 people, there is ALWAYS an instructor of coach spotting.
And who said that I am not peeking out of the door to orientate while the plane lines up for jumprun before the door opens?I always have a pretty good idea of where exactly we are in relation to the dz and I always check ground winds and winds aloft, but the looking for separation I leave up to the instructors.

[Reginald 0]

Quote

I have worked with a lot of people with many solos and few coach jumps. Every one of them has had backsliding issues and often assymetry issues, problems with their exits... they just keep making the same mistakes over and over with no idea how to fix them, so they keep doing it repeatedly. Then as an instructor, I don't just have to teach, I have to break ingrained habits, which is MUCH harder to do. So at this level I do see lots of solos as a bad thing.

Amen sister!

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Tuna-Salad 0]

HaHa. I don't really look at the green light, more hang my head out and actually LOOK. It's not just about if you are in the right place but other aircraft also. On AFF3 I was told to put my head into the wind and look around, and to make a habit of doing so.

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.