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jrcolo

Opinions on new jumper with digital altimeter?

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im new to the sport and im wondering what opinions are to someone like me using a digital altimeter? ive read that they sometimes fail? any suggestions?



I used one right off AFF. If you can't jump without an altimeter (if it quits) then you've got something else to worry about.
I've never had a problem with my Neptune. If that's what you like and you've got a license to jump or permission from your instructors then go for it. That's what I did.

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you can't jump without an altimeter (if it quits) then you've got something else to worry about.



Yep, I spent my last 3 solo's purely on altitude awareness... I like sitting next to the door in the Cessna and judging the height on the climb, and on the way down I always estimate my height before I look at the altimeter, great practice.

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I have no problem with it.

I actually support it.

While all altimeters can break - when digi altis break they often show a blank screen or an error screen - letting you know it is broken. When an analog one fails, it gets stuck at the wrong alti.

Which one would you rather have?

1) An alti when it breaks will ALWAYS show you the incorrect altitude.

2) An alti that most likely will inform the user it is broken and very rarely reports the incorrect altitude.

A higher level AFF student had a digital altimeter he was given. It was in good condition and he was very aware of how it worked. I let him jump it. My only fear was that it was too easy to read:P.

I have abused my Neptune and it still works. I abused an analog one, and it broke and gave me the wrong altitude. If a student/younger jumper is spending money, might as well spend it on good equipment that will last a long time...:$

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My experience was this; right off of AFF I did not want to make any drastic changes. At least it seemed that changing from analog to digital was a big step at the time. So I jumped with both. I put the digi right above my analog and it allowed me to have a side by side comparison as well as the trusty analog there in case there was an unexpected problem with the new digi. It worked great and soon I retired the analog and have not used one since.
The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

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>While all altimeters can break - when digi altis break they often show
>a blank screen or an error screen - letting you know it is broken.

Agreed. As a side note, it is important to note that audibles are even worse than analog altimeters, since they give no indication that they have failed at all. At least with analogs, there's a chance you'll notice the needle missing, or the needle remaining at one position for a while.

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Stict to analogs. They are way faster to read.



I'll second that.

A digital alti you have to READ, an analog you just have to look at to get a reading.
So stick to analog unless you are going to swoop, and that's probably is far away for you :)
I have put about 100 jumps on my Viso to this date and I still have difficulties to read it when I sit-fly.
“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw
He who dies with the most toys, wins.....
dudeist skydiver # 19515
Buy quality and cry once!

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I have abused my Neptune and it still works. I abused an analog one, and it broke and gave me the wrong altitude. If a student/younger jumper is spending money, might as well spend it on good equipment that will last a long time...


*** On the other hand, I've jumped the same Altmaster since 1991 and it was a few years old then, never had a problem with it. What I like about analog is that if you can tell time, you can read your altitude at a glance.
John Wright

World's most beloved skydiver

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On the other hand, I've jumped the same Altmaster since 1991 and it was a few years old then, never had a problem with it. What I like about analog is that if you can tell time, you can read your altitude at a glance.



1) I guess this proves I am better at abuse than you. (although I agree the older Altmasters seem more durable... However I had one of those break on an re-currency jump and I chased a the skydiver into the basement, the lowest I ever have pulled in an AFF jump)

2) Those of us who are model year 1975 (our brain) grew up in the digital world. I can "glance" at a digital device and read it just as quick, or even quicker than an analog. Unfortunately every morning I have to look at my alarm clock and quickly process if I can sleep more or go to work.

I do buy the fact you get used to "if the needle is on that side I still have a lot of time" on an analog and that on an analog you get the "pie chart effect" where you get a sensation of "ratio of the pie left, ratio of the pie spent"...

But my brain equally processes "9.8K, I have time".

There is only ONE thing, with a lot of brainstorming, I believe an analog does better. "If you are in the red zone, go straight to your reserve."

Because statistics prove that unintentional low pulls due to loss of altitude awareness, skydivers will revert to old hat skills and pull their main, causing a two-out cypres fire... I believe the neptune could have a software update where you can program "if still in freefall below X feet, flash "reserve" and altitude intermittently - to remind the skydiver to go straight to the reserve in the panic situation.... Before you flame me about if a skydiver should "know to do this", I am speaking of statistics that prove skydivers "know to do this" but revert to the primal fight or flight instinct of stopping the skydive in the way they are most familiar when they get in a bad situation...

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I personally prefer a digital altimeter after having used an analog the first few years I was jumping.

All in all, though, is what do YOU feel the most comfortable with?

My Altimaster III crapped out and was plus or minus 500ft. My Neptune has crapped out as well, but it just goes blank or goes to an error screen. Personally I'd rather have nothing then something that is wildly inaccurate when its malfunctioning.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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As the above poster mentioned, for people who grew up with digital readings it is a lot easier to read a digital display instead of an analog one.
I changed to a Neptun on my 23th jump (took an altimaster up too, as a reserve.. call me paranoid) and since then always use it. It is actually EASIER to read for me! :)I never thought about what happens if either a digital or a analog one breaks, but after reading through the thread it is even more unlikely for me that I will ever use an analog one again.

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Just in case there are any UK jumpers reading this thread, I believe that there are license restrictions here on when you can wear just a digital alti. I think it's a B license, but it may be a number of jumps.

You can wear one alongside an analog, but some instructors / CCIs aren't thrilled by the idea of people wearing 2 altis because of the increase in snag points.

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Stict to analogs. They are way faster to read.



This is VERY subjective. I personally can read the digital much easier.

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I have put about 100 jumps on my Viso to this date and I still have difficulties to read it when I sit-fly.



Try a Neptune. I can't read the VISO either. The display is much smaller on the VISO and the Neptune has much better contrast.

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Stict to analogs. They are way faster to read.



This is VERY subjective. I personally can read the digital much easier.

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I have put about 100 jumps on my Viso to this date and I still have difficulties to read it when I sit-fly.



Try a Neptune. I can't read the VISO either. The display is much smaller on the VISO and the Neptune has much better contrast.



1. Analog or digital:
This is a fact. It’s no coincidence that most of the instruments (the flight critical) in a cockpit are displayed in analog mode, no matter if it’s on a LCD screen or not.

2. Viso or Neptune:
I agree, didn't do the research properly. More or less I went for the Viso only due to L&B's SOLID customer service.

*EDIT to add*
LOL @ yarak
“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw
He who dies with the most toys, wins.....
dudeist skydiver # 19515
Buy quality and cry once!

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I do buy the fact you get used to "if the needle is on that side I still have a lot of time" on an analog and that on an analog you get the "pie chart effect" where you get a sensation of "ratio of the pie left, ratio of the pie spent"...

But my brain equally processes "9.8K, I have time".

There is only ONE thing, with a lot of brainstorming, I believe an analog does better. "If you are in the red zone, go straight to your reserve."



There's a reason why aircraft with glass cockpits (digital displays) don't just show a bunch of numbers... they always show some kind of scale with them. Either a dial or a "tape" or whatever. It's too easy to misread a number. We look at our altimeters very quickly most of the time. When shooting video, I read my altimeter out of the corner of my eye so I don't mess up the video or lose focus on what I'm filming. Couldn't do that with a digital altimeter, because you actually need to read the numbers. With an analog, I can read it "well enough" even if I can't make out the numbers on it.

I highly recommend a good quality analog altimeter to new jumpers. It's just a good purchase. It can last pretty much forever, and even if you get a digital down the road, it's never a bad idea to have an analog altimeter in your gear bag. Quite a bit cheaper too. And even though analog altimeters CAN fail, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that they fail MUCH less frequently. I do agree that analog altimeters have a very nasty failure mode of just stopping so they show the wrong altitude. That is a major advantage of a digital. Chances are it will go dead or detect an error instead of showing the wrong altitude. But I bet it COULD show a wrong altitude, and overall I bet it is more likely to do something wrong than an analog altimeter.

I also think people should wait until at least 200 jumps to get an audible. At the very least, set it low so you don't learn to salivate when the bell rings. Audibles are horrible for altitude awareness, except for the moment they beep when they work correctly.

Dave

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Analog or digital:
This is a fact. It’s no coincidence that most of the instruments (the flight critical) in a cockpit are displayed in analog mode, no matter if it’s on a LCD screen or not.



Very true. A lot of research was done in Humen Factors Engineering when digital instrumentation first became available in aircraft. It was determined that for instruments where there was a need to quickly spot a reading within a certain "range" or to identify a trend, i.e., "higher or lower", an analog display was far better. If you need to fine-tune something, then digital readout is fine, but for something like an altimeter, you don't really have to know details like whether you're at 1499' or 1498'. What you need to know is where you are in the "low" range. Something that takes an extra brain cell to perceive and an extra millisecond to process is excessive, in my opinion.

Obviously, for things like swooping, where precision altitude points are used, a digital is perfect.

Kevin K.
_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

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I agree completely!

If you are going to swoop then yes you will need that extra precision that a digital provide.

To be honest I got the Viso more or less due to the fact that I was ‘gadget horny’. :o
And with only ~200 jumps (by the time I bought the Viso) I know NOW that I should have waited a bit longer. But I thought ‘I don’t need the analog any more’ I sold the analog.

“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw
He who dies with the most toys, wins.....
dudeist skydiver # 19515
Buy quality and cry once!

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There's a reason why aircraft with glass cockpits (digital displays) don't just show a bunch of numbers



That's because there are a bunch of instruments to look at.
I'm a pilot too. I used to fly the 727-200. Ever see all the crap in one of those? Lots of the instruments that displayed numbers were decimal dials. Kind of like the odometer in your car. Could you imagine your Nav/Com without a digital display? Most glass panels do show a scale type display but almost every one of them is supplemented with a digital display just above or off to the side. That's what I prefer to look at . What it comes down to is what one prefers. I'll take a digital altimeter hands down.

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I grew up never having any sort of analog clock in my house, and always had digital watches as well. I find it much harder to read an analog altimeter than a digital one.

I wear an analog one on my chest for CRW, and I've had several over the years. And I will admit they did get dropped on occasion. The failure mode on mine wasn't reading the wrong altitude as much, but on the last 2, it would only function above 1000 feet.

My last one, it started having to be set at 750 on the ground and it would function perfectly above that. That slowly started going up, until by the time I retired it, I was setting it at 1500 feet. The only reason I retired it then was because I got tired of everyone telling me how my altimeter was off!

When I do look at an analog altimeter, I have to stare at it for a second, read the numbers the hand is in between, and then calculate which its closer to in order to figure out I'm at 5300. Its MUCH easier for me to look at one and read "58" than to do the other calculations.

Again, I NEVER had analog clocks anywhere in my house growing up.

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im new to the sport and im wondering what opinions are to someone like me using a digital altimeter? ive read that they sometimes fail? any suggestions?



A chest mounted analog altimeter is a lot nicer for people on the opposite side of a flat formation, it's easier to distinguish "low" from "not low" and get a rough trend when visibility is limited (peripheral vision, lost glasses, etc), and you should be figuring out how to fly an accurate landing pattern based on what you see rather than precise altitudes.

They get stuck when they fail though.

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