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malarame

How do you know when everyone is ready?

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(Note: I've only ever jumped out of a C-182, so that's what I'm basing this question on.)

I was wondering, when you're doing the count for a four-way jump, how do you typically know when everyone is ready to go? Do you just look to see if the guy in the door is in position and assume he's ready? For the few times that I've done a four-way and been the one to count, I've always asked the guy in the door to nod at me when he was ready, since I figure he's going to be ready last. Even on a two-way, if I'm doing the count I've always asked the other person to nod when they were ready. Is there some standard way of knowing, and am I just being difficult by adding something else that can go wrong?

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(Note: I've only ever jumped out of a C-182, so that's what I'm basing this question on.)

I was wondering, when you're doing the count for a four-way jump, how do you typically know when everyone is ready to go? Do you just look to see if the guy in the door is in position and assume he's ready? For the few times that I've done a four-way and been the one to count, I've always asked the guy in the door to nod at me when he was ready, since I figure he's going to be ready last. Even on a two-way, if I'm doing the count I've always asked the other person to nod when they were ready. Is there some standard way of knowing, and am I just being difficult by adding something else that can go wrong?



One sure fire way is to make it a standard practice that when you're ready, you look at the person giving the count. The "counter" makes sure he/she has all eyes on him/her before starting the count.

If you ain't lookin', I ain't countin'. Works very nicely...until the spot gets long.:S
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Eye contactworks untilyou need to head jam or have some thing really weird that you are launching with outfacing people. For casual jumps you will be launching formations that everyone can see each other one and can use eye contact, on some of the more difficult 4 way launches then the outside center would do a grip review and then go from there. On larger formations you need to follow the same plan depending on what is being launched. On an 8 way the person outside might not even be able to see the people inside so you need to assume they are ready and count from there.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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Every team or group is different in what they like to use and there is no rule. Jumping with the same people regularly you begin to find a rhythm that allows everybody to get set. When I am outside I always wait for the group to be "quiet" in the door with no motion, that lets me know I am good to go. Sometimes I might ask to have grips taken on me last to let me know the team is set.

Even if it is a random group of people, dirt diving the door a couple of times on the ground with the same timing helps a lot.

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Plan the dive, dive the plan. This covers setting up the exit and giving the exit. Always make sure during the dirt dive what you expect from the group if you're giving the count. Then do what you dirt dived.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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That whole "eye contact thing is fine IF everybody can actually HAVE eye contact. In launching a lot of formations, this isn't actually possible.

If you'd like a formula for a few more people that works, try this.

Walk to the door and take positions.

When you're "ready" you obviously can stop moving. Just be still.

When everybody has achieved a stillness, then everyone is "ready".

The person giving the count then gives a noticeable and rhythmic shake of the grips he's holding and the count then begins; out, in, out.

This has the added bonus of being something your camera flyer can also see.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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What my team does is the person doing the exit count gets eyes from everyone before she starts. If she can't get eyes, then the rule is don't take your last grip till you're ready to go. So if she can't see your eyes but you have your grip, she's gonna assume you're ready.

Then after she gets eyes, she gives a shake before beginning the count.

I used to get really antsy in the door, and would go before everyone was ready. Now we are trying to get relaxed and set before we go. That way we won't funnel (hopefully ;)).
"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

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Dirt Dive it...



:D:D:D

Only one problem with that...it's too logical.
:D:D

I like the volumes of answers being given when the bottom-line answer is the simple, and elegant, one.

:D:D
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Dirt Dive it...



:D:D:D

Only one problem with that...it's too logical.



The phrase "Dirt Dive It" is just fine if you already have a plan and frame of reference. However, it does nothing to address the issue if your plan is just to take grips and give a count. It doesn't allow for recognition of the fact that last second aborts do occasionally have to happen.

While brevity may be the soul of wit. Sometimes in the rush to be witty and wise, people leave out the actual information that was asked for.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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...and sometimes people forget that dirt diving includes those plans and frames of reference since there is no "standard" for them.

...and...if your plan is to simply take grips and give a count then you missed a major part of it all - addressing what is means to be ready - so, like he said, "DIRT DIVE IT..."

...and sometimes people get in a rush to be sarcastic and forget to add anything for the OPs enlightenment.

:D:D:D
:P
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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My preference is for an inside person to be designated (in the dirt dive) to give a "HOT" signal to the person giving the exit count.

This has the advantage of sounding different from
"Ready, Set, Go" to avoid confusion.

..can be combined with 'shake it up' via grips to the Hot person and/or exit count person.

Your Mileage May Vary


PULL!
jumpin_Jan
"Dangerous toys are fun but ya could get hurt" -- Vash The Stampede

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Dirt Dive it...



:D:D:D

Only one problem with that...it's too logical.



The phrase "Dirt Dive It" is just fine if you already have a plan and frame of reference. However, it does nothing to address the issue if your plan is just to take grips and give a count. It doesn't allow for recognition of the fact that last second aborts do occasionally have to happen.

While brevity may be the soul of wit. Sometimes in the rush to be witty and wise, people leave out the actual information that was asked for.





So, you recommend ad lib in the doorway at 12 five???

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The phrase "Dirt Dive It" is just fine if you already have a plan and frame of reference. However, it does nothing to address the issue if your plan is just to take grips and give a count. It doesn't allow for recognition of the fact that last second aborts do occasionally have to happen.



Yeah, I haven't forgotten the jump where I was climbing out of the King Air to get into position as a front float, but before I could inch over, the next guy backs out the door immediately, hanging me further out in the air stream and my arms are stretched as far as they can be. Nothing I could do other than hang on desperately for about 2 seconds before I let go with a "FUCKER!!!" :D:D:D
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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When you're "ready" you obviously can stop moving. Just be still.

When everybody has achieved a stillness, then everyone is "ready".



Ah, stillness...

Having shot video of a decent amount of both FS and VFS, I can say stillness is huge in keeping your videographer's blood pressure down. There's nothing worse then climbing out and watching a bunch of legs and rigs shifting around all over the place all the way up until bodies fly out of the plane.

Also, as inside center where I give 90% of the exit counts, I watch everyone get in position and take up grips. When everyone has stopped moving it tells me that everyone is balanced and ready to go. This is particularly important on things like 8s, where I'm balanced right on the edge of the door frame, not holding onto the plane at all, and I can't be looking around at everyone.

Being still isn't just a communication tool either. It's important to be relaxed and to be ready to do what you need to do right out the door to make the exit successful. Really sweet exits have almost zero movement in the formation a second out the door (except if it was a really really sweet exit in which case you're going to the next point.) and a good step towards achieving that is to have almost zero movement a second before you leave the door.

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So, you recommend ad lib in the doorway at 12 five???



Way to miss a point . . . bravo!



OK..call us stupid...what WAS your point? Did you have one or is this an afterthought?

You've sure been in a pissy mood lately. What's up?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Since quade takes exception to brevity:

A Cessna 182 exit sometimes overlaps the jumpers vision of each other, so a good feel for the exit must be thoroughly “dirt dived” to achieve timing and consistency. I think you’re on the right track with the man in the door being the last to be ready, and also the logical one to make the approval nod, but the count should come from a jumper on the step. On teams I jumped with, even though we may have many jumps together, we would still often pull on gear and use the aircraft for line-up and exit drills, and our count involved motion (up, down, off).

I started jumping 4-way with Scott Meeks, quite possibly the most thorough dirt diver ever…

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So, you recommend ad lib in the doorway at 12 five???



Way to miss a point . . . bravo!



OK..call us stupid...what WAS your point? Did you have one or is this an afterthought?



My point is that a person with -28- jumps asked a question to which some simply said "dirt dive it". That is an incomplete answer. If the person knew what was meant in full by the term, they wouldn't have asked the question to begin with and by rushing in with the glib answer you've done them a disservice. Further, when this is pointed out, again, you and others seem to miss that point.

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You've sure been in a pissy mood lately. What's up?



Skygods are starting to piss me off. If they'd get off their glib, presumptive, high horses and actually HELP people understand things rather than just dismiss them with a "dirt dive it", I think it would be better.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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