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What's so freaking important about landing near the damn beer line?!

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So I was thinking about something this weekend...

I landed after a fun, uneventful jump this weekend, and I was perhaps 15 feet or so away from the Peas. It was a very light load (me, one other person, and four tandems, no video. Watching the next jump from the grass on the side, (a full plane) I noticed how everyone was aiming for that one spot called "as close to the packing tent as possible."

WHY?!

I RARELY land near the tent, or near the beer line, or near any place that doesn't require a walk - and for me, I prefer it! I like having tons of open space, perhaps further away from the main area, or at the Ranch, along side the pond, or behind it if swoopers are in play. I like knowing that I'm not going to get taken out at 100 feet, or that I'm not going to have to pray like hell that I miss the idiot who's not looking as he's walking across the landing area. And this isn't about bad accuracy - My accuracy is as good as anyone else with about 200 jumps. I choose to land further away.

That walk back with my stuff is my decompress time. I can review the jump in my mind, figure out what I want to improve, and by the time I drop my gear, I've taken a deep breath, and am ready for the next challenge. I enjoy that walk back.

I've gotten shit before for landing further back, or not right on top of everyone else, (hey, Peter, you Para-hiking?) and in my mind, f-them - I like having my space - not getting in anyone else's, and knowing that my landing has a much less chance of being disrupted by any number of factors that can occur with more frequency in the 20 feet closest to the beer line or packing tent.

Perhaps if more of us thought this way, we could avoid canopy collisions that simply don't have to happen in the first place?

Just a thought. Flame-retardant suit donned, give it your best shot.

-Peter
_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

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I noticed how everyone was aiming for that one spot called "as close to the packing tent as possible".



I've said it before and I'll say it again ... The pressure to conform exists at the macro and micro levels.

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I've gotten shit before for landing further back ...



I'm guessing that they're just joking around but if they're being serious, tell them to stop drinking Hateraide.
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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You make some good points, but for this one...

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...or that I'm not going to have to pray like hell that I miss the idiot who's not looking as he's walking across the landing area.



Canopies aren't on rails. You shouldn't have to pray you don't hit someone who's walking across where you're about to land, you should be able to turn and miss them.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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You make some good points, but for this one...

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...or that I'm not going to have to pray like hell that I miss the idiot who's not looking as he's walking across the landing area.



Canopies aren't on rails. You shouldn't have to pray you don't hit someone who's walking across where you're about to land, you should be able to turn and miss them.




So the "low-man" rule applies even to those on the ground, not paying attention?

Why should I risk pounding in (even on a flat turn at 50 feet) to avoid some idiot who things that the skydive is over just because he's on the ground unharmed?
_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

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Ok, a guy who not only jumps at the Ranch but quotes Jacques Brel gets both respect and a reply. 1st, it's ok to say the word fuck, as in"fuck them". No harm done. 2nd: Years ago in DeLand, they used to have a ditch which separated the manifest/hangar/packing area from the landing area. The only way back was to cross a wooden bridge, and, naturally, a lot of people tried to land as near as possible to that bridge, in order to avoid the stress of a walk, I suppose. Then one day we had a canopy collision when there were not more than ten canopies in the air and it was because both pilots had initiated their turns into one another as they were setting up to land near the bridge. One of those two died at the scene (and in my arms). It became very apparent that Newton was correct in asserting that two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time without killing one of them. After this tragic day, Jack Jeffries, who was a local at the time, declared he was not going to land anywhere near that bridge again, that he would land farther out and walk, and more or less "fuck them" who say anything to him which might be taken as giving him shit. Well, Peter, if it's good enough for Jack it's good enough for the entire rest of the skydiving community and you just tell them so. So you land where you feel safest and fuck them. You make sure you stay safe and comfortable within your skills and fuck them. You walk if you want to and fuck them. Besides, this overweight American culture we thrive in could use the walk. So fuck them. Find me and say hello some weekend. Good for you.

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So the "low-man" rule applies even to those on the ground, not paying attention?



Either way, I'm not going to crash into someone just to prove a point.

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Why should I risk pounding in (even on a flat turn at 50 feet) to avoid some idiot who things that the skydive is over just because he's on the ground unharmed?



Flat or flare turning enough to miss one person shouldn't be putting you at a risk of pounding in.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Either way, I'm not going to crash into someone just to prove a point.



Exactly why I'll land a little further back. Let someone else deal with avoidance issues at 50 feet. :P
_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

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>Why should I risk pounding in (even on a flat turn at 50 feet) to
>avoid some idiot who things that the skydive is over just because he's on
>the ground unharmed?

The standard procedure here is to have the people on the ground not move, and have the people in the air plan their approaches to avoid them. It varies from DZ to DZ; some places have jumpers move to the sides of the landing area once they land. But in general the person in the air is responsible for making sure they don't hit the person on the ground - even if the person on the ground isn't looking.

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Either way, I'm not going to crash into someone just to prove a point.



Exactly why I'll land a little further back. Let someone else deal with avoidance issues at 50 feet. :P



And that's great. But, also worth building up the skills so that if one day you are 50 feet up and heading straight for someone on the ground you will be able to avoid them.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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So the "low-man" rule applies even to those on the ground, not paying attention?



Doesn't matter. It's still your limbs that'll get mangled even if it's the other guy's fault.


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Why should I risk pounding in (even on a flat turn at 50 feet) to avoid some idiot who things that the skydive is over just because he's on the ground unharmed?



You should be setting up your landings well before then to anticipate who's near where you're landing and be ready to avoid them when they go on idiot on you.

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What's so freaking important about landing near the damn beer line?!



because it gives the cool guys a hard on when they impress trailertrash with fake tits standing by? :o
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

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Either way, I'm not going to crash into someone just to prove a point.



Exactly why I'll land a little further back. Let someone else deal with avoidance issues at 50 feet. :P



And that's great. But, also worth building up the skills so that if one day you are 50 feet up and heading straight for someone on the ground you will be able to avoid them.




Agreed again - But still say I can do that without endangering other people (or myself) by simply practicing no matter where I land.
_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

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So you land where you feel safest and fuck them. You make sure you stay safe and comfortable within your skills and fuck them. You walk if you want to and fuck them. Besides, this overweight American culture we thrive in could use the walk. So fuck them.



Well said!

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I RARELY land near the tent, or near the beer line, or near any place that doesn't require a walk - and for me, I prefer it! I like having tons of open space, perhaps further away from the main area, or at the Ranch, along side the pond, or behind it if swoopers are in play. I like knowing that I'm not going to get taken out at 100 feet, or that I'm not going to have to pray like hell that I miss the idiot who's not looking as he's walking across the landing area. And this isn't about bad accuracy - My accuracy is as good as anyone else with about 200 jumps. I choose to land further away.

That walk back with my stuff is my decompress time. I can review the jump in my mind, figure out what I want to improve, and by the time I drop my gear, I've taken a deep breath, and am ready for the next challenge. I enjoy that walk back.

I've gotten shit before for landing further back, or not right on top of everyone else, (hey, Peter, you Para-hiking?) and in my mind, f-them - I like having my space - not getting in anyone else's, and knowing that my landing has a much less chance of being disrupted by any number of factors that can occur with more frequency in the 20 feet closest to the beer line or packing tent.

Perhaps if more of us thought this way, we could avoid canopy collisions that simply don't have to happen in the first place?



You are not alone. I almost never land near the packing area/tent. I almost always consiously land away from the main buildings. And I also do a walk like you said to replay the events in my head. I like it when I have loads of space to land, and have to worry less about collisions etc.

Blues ;)
"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

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So I was thinking about something this weekend...

I landed after a fun, uneventful jump this weekend, and I was perhaps 15 feet or so away from the Peas. It was a very light load (me, one other person, and four tandems, no video. Watching the next jump from the grass on the side, (a full plane) I noticed how everyone was aiming for that one spot called "as close to the packing tent as possible."

WHY?!



1. The next load leaves in about 20 minutes. It takes 6-7 minutes to pack, a minute or two to grab a drink and pee, a few minutes to dirt dive, and there isn't much time left to dilly dally walking around the landing area.

2. There are no prarie dog holes right next to the beer line or in the pea gravel pit.

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Agreed again - But still say I can do that without endangering other people (or myself) by simply practicing no matter where I land.



I never said you couldn't. Just that your initial post gave the impression that you were destined to land wherever it was you were pointing when you turned on final and didn't have the tools to avoid any unexpected obstacles. Glad that's not the case:P
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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The next load leaves in about 20 minutes. It takes 6-7 minutes to pack, a minute or two to grab a drink and pee, a few minutes to dirt dive, and there isn't much time left to dilly dally walking around the landing area.



Even worse on back-to-back loads. My 4-way team tries to do 10+ jumps a day on training days. We're often doing 3 loads in a row. The closer I can land to the hangar, the slower I can walk to the boarding area for the next load (running to catch the plane sucks). But I don't push it and land where I want regardless of traffic. I just try to aim generally close to where I want to be if traffic allows for it. Also the wind has to allow for it... I don't like landing near buildings if they're causing turbulence. I'd much rather always land far away from any traffic/obstacles, but I'll have a heart attack if I have to run all day. :)
Dave

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Yeah, that's true. But every once in a while you get some low or no jump number person on the landing area who jukes back and forth while someone is swooping towards them. Like a dodgeball player. Hate to say it, but I did that shit at @ jump 15 because no one had told me any different. I swear I thought this guy was gonna nail me. I know it seems like common sense now, but to friends of tandems or brand new skydivers, they just don't know.

I guess the point is, you never know what some wacko on the ground is gonna do, so it's up to the canopy pilot to get himself safely to the ground. Landing near, landing away, just be safe.

I'm new to all this so I tend to agree with landing away. If everyone else want to land close, good for them. It's not your problem if you're not crowded in with them ;)


Btw, the guy was doing tandem video and captured the image of me juking back and forth. Talk about some embarassing shit! One more lesson I'll never forget.....
I will be kissing hands and shaking babies all afternoon. Thanks for all your support! *bows*

SCS #8251

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At my DZ, the area near the packing tent is actually restricted to jumpers with at least a B, mostly because it's a smaller area with buildings around it causing a lot of turbulence. I've landed there a couple times on accident (mostly by misjudging how much penetration I'd get on my final approach), and every time I got clobbered by turbulence and ended up being blown onto the runway. With my skill level, I don't feel comfortable making any sort of turn below ~100 feet, so there's a point at which I just raise my toggles and go wherever my canopy takes me. I'm working on flat turns and slowly lowering the altitude at which I'll do them, but ~100 feet is still my limit.

After landing on the runway in the advanced landing area twice in one day, I got grounded and a couple more experienced jumpers talked to me and reviewed approach procedures in detail with me. I don't plan on landing in that area any time soon, and not until I feel very comfortable with accuracy. I'd much rather walk back from the student landing area than deal with that turbulence at my level. Plus, someone usually comes out on a golf cart and picks us up :)
Your post raises another point though, which is the cavalier attitude toward safety many jumpers seem to take. I've only been doing this for a couple months, but I've noticed that some jumpers do pretty dangerous things, sometimes even putting others in danger, and then laugh it off or try to deny what happened. It's similar to some of the attitudes toward canopy sizes that I see. Everyone seems to want to constantly jump smaller and faster canopies. I'm about to buy a Sabre 210 from a friend of mine who's downsizing, and I've had a couple people question why I'm buying "such a big parachute". My exit weight is about 165, so my wing loading is about 0.8 or so. With 32 jumps, why would I want to jump something smaller? I have no desire to downsize, and I doubt I'm going to want to within the next couple hundred jumps. I happen to like the big, slow, soft ride I get from it, not to mention the easy landings. From observing other jumpers, it seems like I'm going against the grain by wanting to jump a large canopy.

Anyway, I'm going to stop thread-jacking now.

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What's so freaking important about landing near the damn beer line?!



because it gives the cool guys a hard on when they impress trailertrash with fake tits standing by? :o



I must be a cool guy. ;)

Dude, land wherever you want to land. You make a lot of valid points and it's great to see your type of attitude as opposed to some of the other shit that people think/say. Lots of kudos to you.

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I've seen 4 people die from collisions or collision avoidance. In each case they were landing (or attempting to) close by the packing area at DZs with huge amounts of open space available.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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