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rocketscientist

chest strap under canopy?

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I remember reading an article about this. From what I took of it, it sounds like even if you loosen the chest strap all the way while under canopy, you're still very safe. I'm not sure about a performance increase. Could be slight, but what I can really see it doing is helping a lot with landing, and being able to prepare for a PLF easier.
Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

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I remember reading an article about this. From what I took of it, it sounds like even if you loosen the chest strap all the way while under canopy, you're still very safe. I'm not sure about a performance increase. Could be slight, but what I can really see it doing is helping a lot with landing, and being able to prepare for a PLF easier.



Please... If you dont know about something, dont comment on it...[:/]

Back to the OP's question. The only point of loosening a chest strap is to let a canopy fly flatter, and increase performance since its projected area becomes larger, while not increasing drag. Now, the only was this has any effect is if you bring you slidder down to the bottom of the risers.

If you need a loose chest strap to improve you PLF, you need to re-learn what a PLF is. Same goes for landings.

So, at 75 jumps, should you be worrying about this? I would say no. Its something else to do in freefall before you pop your toggles, and you should be very sure no one is around you. Also, if you get into a caopy collision after opening after loosening your chest strap, your handles will probably be at an unexpected location after a custaway: are you ready to deal with that?

The canopy performance improvement will probably not not that noticeable for you anyways.

Talk to your local instructors.
Remster

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Please... If you dont know about something, dont comment on it...[:/]

Its something else to do in freefall before you pop your toggles

Talk to your local instructors.



in freefall ???:o
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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Note your jump numbers; note his jump numbers.

For somebody with 75 jumps in 7 years, I think it's ill advised. No amount of benefit (and I'm almost certain he'd see none with the canopy he's flying) is worth any additional risk at that point.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I remember reading an article about this. From what I took of it, it sounds like even if you loosen the chest strap all the way while under canopy, you're still very safe. I'm not sure about a performance increase. Could be slight, but what I can really see it doing is helping a lot with landing, and being able to prepare for a PLF easier.



Please print out and review this thread with your jump instructors.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Please... If you dont know about something, dont comment on it...[:/]

Back to the OP's question. The only point of loosening a chest strap is to let a canopy fly flatter, and increase performance...

...snip...




Quick question for you Remster: are you sure?

I'm not challenging your facts, just wondering how you arrived at that conclusion.

- David
SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

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For somebody with 75 jumps in 7 years, I think it's ill advised. No amount of benefit (and I'm almost certain he'd see none with the canopy he's flying) is worth any additional risk at that point.



That and without an RDS or at the very least pulling a collapsed and rolled slider down to the bottom of the risers, then you're just pissing in the wind.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Hi pilot,

Quote

he takes it all the way off



That was standard procedure in accuracy in the '60's.


It was not. You had to unlatch one side of your belly-wart reserve to see. ;)
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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This guy (see attached) doesn't just loosen his chest strap to make landing easier, he takes it all the way off. (Don't try this at home unless you're an old timey accuracy jumper!) :)
Dave



isn't the new trend just to have monstrously long chestraps - long enough to hang down to your knee ? I feel that's at least a little safer...

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Please... If you dont know about something, dont comment on it...[:/]

Back to the OP's question. The only point of loosening a chest strap is to let a canopy fly flatter, and increase performance...

...snip...




Quick question for you Remster: are you sure?

I'm not challenging your facts, just wondering how you arrived at that conclusion.

- David

I'm sure he's sure. Think about the canopy and outside (stab) lines as a triangle with a curved top. The bottom (if you pull down the slider) is effectively the chest strap. Loosening off the chest strap allows the bottom (and therefore the top) of that triangle to become a little wider (perhaps a trapezoid now?!). The wider the top is, the flatter the canopy can be.

Why does that help? Well the canopy provides lift not upwards, but perpendicular to its top skin surface. The more you can get that skin flattened and pointed towards the sky, the more real lift (and 'performance') you will get.

Same basic principle as I see it for cross-braced design and performance increase. Flat is good. Perhaps the misunderstanding is that we are talking laterally flat here across the canopy, not changing the trim?
***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

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Quick question for you Remster: are you sure?

I'm not challenging your facts, just wondering how you arrived at that conclusion



David,

I would HIGHLY suggest you talk to Ian Drennan at the Farm. There could be a great deal learned on a canopy course please talk to Hans about upcoming course. All of this and more is talked about.

Brian Germain talks a little about it in this article.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/art-nowindland.php

Muff Brother # 3883, SCR # 14796 ICD # 1 - Pres.
Yeah, I noticed and I think it's funny!

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"The only point of loosening a chest strap is to let a canopy fly flatter, and increase performance since its projected area becomes larger, while not increasing drag."

What about comfort?? I agree with what it does for performance, but it also more comfortable to loosen your chest strap once the canopy is open. Not everything has to be about performance.

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Confort? I dont see it... Once the canopy is open, the way weight shifts in the harness, you typically have gaps around your shoulders. Looseningthe chest strap wouldnt do much

Will it never help with confort? Probably in some cases it would. But again, IMO, its not a factor.
Remster

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I would HIGHLY suggest you talk to Ian Drennan at the Farm. There could be a great deal learned on a canopy course please talk to Hans about upcoming course. All of this and more is talked about.



Good idea. Thanks.

So, there is the obvious benefit under canopy of flattening the canopy curve a little. But I was wondering if there might be another point to loosening the chest strap.

During landing, wouldn't a loosened chest strap also allow you to lean forward and put your body weight over your feet as you swing out in front of the canopy while flaring? If so, can't you then "unload" the canopy as your feet touch the ground (woudn't letting them slide on the turf take a little weight off the harness, lighten the wing-loading, and prolong your forward progress)? It seems that with a tightened chest strap, the swing out in front is going to put you off balance with your body weight behind your feet.

Anything that turns vertical energy into horizontal energy on landing seems like a good thing to me. There must be a negative side to this idea though. What is it?

All Standard Disclaimers Apply (I'm not giving advice. I'm just asking questions about the potential benefits of this action. I always ask my instructors. I never try things that I'm not directly taught. Etc., etc.)

- David
SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

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Sliding on your feet works really well IF the ground is smooth with well manicured grass. If its not smooth or the grass is too tall, then your feet will catch and slam you face forward.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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The canopy performance improvement will probably not not that noticeable for you anyways.



I beg to differ. I took Brian Germain's canopy course when I had about 50 jumps. He advocates loosening the chest strap and lowering the slider in his course irregardless of jump numbers. At the time I was jumping a Sabre 2 210 loaded at about 1.15. The difference was tremendous. Toggle turns and the flare were noticably better. No doubt with less anhedral (flatter wing) the glide improved as well.
BTW..I suggest loosening the chest strap after releasing the toggles and performing a proper canopy control check. That way if you have to cut away you don't have the issues of locating your handles.


But what do I know? I'm only 43.

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BTW..I suggest loosening the chest strap after releasing the toggles and performing a proper canopy control check. That way if you have to cut away you don't have the issues of locating your handles.



Sigh....

I'm gonna stop bothering with this forum.

I dont know if that is what Brian teaches, but I doubt it.

And I honestly dont care if Brian teaches fussing with the slider and strap that much at 50 jumps; I think he is wrong to advoicate this.
Remster

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I'm of two minds about the whole business:

On one hand I believe lower jump number folks need to be focusing on other aspects of their descent without this distraction.

On the other hand, I don't see any immediate danger in them doing this, as long as they've received instruction on what exactly they are supposed to do (i.e cheststrap BEFORE toggle release ;)), and when appropriate times are to do it (clear airspace, etc).

I'm not entirely sure the flight characteristics benefits would be noticable on large wings BUT having the chest strap wider, with the slider down, will reduce the ability for a pilot to get into linetwists with aggressive toggle movements (which I find inexceperienced jumpers are more likely to make).

Now, as far as the slider goes - there are pro's and cons too. Keeping the slider down on the risers will prevent a significant amount of wear and tear on spectra lines. The downside is, that besides the fussing factor, it's another distraction and it must be secured. There's already been at least one case that I know of, of a slider riding up and pinching a break line causing a fatality.

Bottom line (for me) is that the jury is still out :)
Clear as mud?

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

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