Does this sound right???

[peregrinerose 0]

You are really blowing this out of proportion.

How many recurrency jumps have you been on? I've done quite a number, with people from students to D license holders. Most of them went fine, but I've seen enough go to shit to know not to take them lightly.

Ground training is far more than EPs. Did you read the NY incident from yesterday?

It's also more than just your individual friend's safety. I've seen jumpers licensed from other DZs that were flat out incompetent in freefall. Barely stable, not altitude aware, spinning... yet somehow they got a license in their hand. If they did a group dive with no form of evaluation dive first and they toilet bowl track into another group or another jumper, that's just unsafe for everyone. Jumping with an AFF instructor isn't about dollars, it's about safety.... and not just his.

At our DZ in the same situation, it would be $45 for the recurrency (lasts from 1.5-3 hours depending on the student) plus whatever the cost of a coach jump is. $90 I think. The 'coach' would be one of the AFF instructors, as with that low of jump numbers and new to the DZ it would probably be a harness hold exit and the instructor would be prepared to pull for them. Is $135 unreasonable to ensure a safe skydive for all concerned? I don't think so.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Andy_Copland 0]

I actually think skydivers make skydiving more complicated and sound more dangerous than it is for their own ego's.

Its just Darwin in action when the really silly folks go in doing something stupid (like landing in high voltage power lines).

*flame suit on*

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[peregrinerose 0]

Everyone learns differently. Maybe for YOU skydiving isn't complicated. Maybe for YOU, there is 100% retention of all skydiving related information you have learned, despite being however long uncurrent. Maybe YOU have great judgement, common sense, etc.

However, every jumper is different. What for YOU might be over-kill, for another jumper may be very needed review. Which standard does it make more sense to adhere to for that recurrency jump? To assume that the jumper has a good head on their shoulders, good logic, good common sense and just go straight to the skydive with minimal/no review, or to get a feel for what the jumper does and doesn't know through recurrency training?

As an instructor, if a recurrency jumper I'm with gets injured or killed, how am I going to live with myself if I assumed that every jumper was like you and didn't do as thorough a recurrency as I would have had I made no assumptions at all about the student? Honestly, I couldn't. Maybe when you are an instructor, your philosophy will be different... maybe YOU will be comfortable putting an uncurrent jumper in the air with no knowledge of their background or understanding, and that's your judgement call to make.

"Recurrency training" is a misnomer really. All I do is sit an ask questions. I cover every topic that's covered in a first jump course... in-aircraft responsibilities/emergencies/safety, gear function/maintainance/checks, landing priorities/hazards, EPs, freefall issues (alt awareness, stability problems, etc), hazards specific to that particular DZ (water, power lines, etc), landing patterns, etc. If the jumper knows all the answers, recurrency training goes really quickly. Any gaps in their knowledge or things they forgot will be taught and covered to them. It's more like recurrency quizzing than recurrency training. But I can honestly say I've only had one recurrency jump where the jumper got 100% of the questions nailed quickly (She was a D licensed jumper, more jumps than me, which I admit felt a little weird, out of the sport for a year).

When a jumper shows up at the DZ, new license, low numbers, and uncurrent, it's my job as instructor to check their knowledge base before throwing them in the air... it's in the best interests of the jumper, everyone else on the plane, me as instructor, and the safety of the DZ as a whole. If a jumper wants to avoid that issue, it's pretty easy... don't go uncurrent to begin with.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Orange1 0]

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Friend of mine just got stationed in Florida (LA) and has his British A license.

What does it state or grant?

AFAIK all A-licences issued under FAI-registered national associations are supposed to be treated as equal.

As a matter of interest, does the SIM/USPA have any general rules? Our national rules for an A-licence jumper who has gone more than 3 months without a jump specify certain minimum recurrency requirements, though it is always up to the discretion of the DZO/CI if they think more than the minimum may be required. However (here) I've never heard of anyone being charged more than their slot + coach/instructor slot if necessary for a recurrency jump.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[woodpecker 0]

Exactly my point. I agree some sort of "quiz" and jumping with an instructor, but to say 20.00 an hour for ground school, 100.00 for recurrency jump, and water (makes me wonder if EVERYONE who jumps in FL has their water training...I'd bet not)

If he failed the quiz then YES, some remedial training and depending on how extensive the training then a little cost for a lengthy amount of time.

"dont become uncurrent"...well some of us get moved around quite a bit with our job and it takes a few months to get moved/situated/etc.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[kelpdiver 2]

The currency requirements don't exist to take into consideration people's work circumstances. It is only an attempt to set a level of recent memory/experience to keep everyone (it's not just his ass on the line) on the plane reasonably safe.

On that, I'd take Sparky, his 3 years off, and his 3000 jumps over your freshly minted buddy who was off 3-5 months (it sounds like you're settling on 4 months now). That is the worst time to go uncurrent. But Sparky still knows the importance of getting checked out again.

I was out 8 months after a shoulder break, I did the abbreviated ground school, and an AFF7 type checkout jump. I went on a weekday when things are quieter and with an instructor I knew. Wasn't free, and probably was more than what you're quoting.

$20/hour for a private ground school isn't expensive - that person's time is worth something, no? Should the checkout be less than $100? eh...it's still their time, for a person they've never met before and don't know if he'll stick around. Probably not, based on this thread.

[Squeak 17]

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Besides, I never said it was a BAD idea for the training....just the money the DZ is charging for it. Except for the "ground school" requirement. Read other reply for my view on that.

on the case of monies being charged i would expect that both slots are covered PLUS the standard fee for a one instructor AFF jump. here in OZ (which is more expensive than the states) that would cost $100.00 plus depending on DZ.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[altichick 1]

A BPA A license is very different from a USPA A license (or any other country's license!!)... A UK A license is AFF levels 1-8 and 10 solos, there are no group freefall / coach jumps, no requirement to be able to spot or pack for the BPA A license... http://www.bpa.org.uk/opman.htm

If he's switched on then his refresher training shouldn't take more than an hour... I think $20 is fair, the instructors have to make a living too! You'd pay a hairdresser that much for an hour of their time!!

As for recurrency jumps.... two slots, gear rental and packing plus a coach or instructor fee... I can see how that could add up to $100 easily. Skydiving isn't a right and while we love our jobs we have to eat too is it unreasonable to expect to pay qualified professionals something for their time and effort??!!

Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things!

[mjosparky 4]

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3 years/4 months....a little different here

"A"Lic. and 3000 jumps.....a little deference here I would say.

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would be fine with paying that amount of money for the 'training' your told you need.

Yes I would. And it would probably be to an instructor with less experience then I have but who's advice and training will help keep me alive.

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Whats another couple thousand dollars to start jumping at a new DZ anyway.

$100 or 2 thousand dollars, which is it. There is a big difference.

Skydiving ain’t cheap, tell your friend to quit whining or take up bowling.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Reginald 0]

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100.00 for a recurrency jump. Give me a break. They are blatantly trying to make money off of him for this. Whats wrong with paying both slots. I mean this is a guy who's going to become a regular club jumper and be there just about every weekend.

So you expect instructors to work for charity? Here is the hard cold reality, instructors work for money. DZ's are in business to make money. Skydiving is not a charity.

All of that said, the "money" I make as an instructor doesn't cover my expenses nor compensate me for the time I spend at the DZ on hopelessly un-jumpable weekends working on the ground with students for free. I work as an instructor for the love of it and go way above and beyond the call of duty for my students. But if there wasn't some sort of compensation involved I wouldn't do it.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[billvon 2,925]

>Whats wrong with paying both slots.

At a busy DZ, that means there's an instructor who's not making money. From the community perspective, it means there may be a level 7 AFF who can't graduate that weekend because that instructor is doing a "freebie" jump for someone else. How is that fair to her?

>I mean this is a guy who's going to become a regular club jumper and
>be there just about every weekend.

So's that level 7. Heck, she's _more_ likely to become a club member than someone who just walked in off the street. Should level 7's be free?

Once you're in the sport for a while, you develop friendships with a lot of instructors, and you'll find that you can get a lot of stuff for "free." But to just walk in off the street and expect an instructor you don't know to give a bunch of free instruction is both unreasonable and rude.

A fairish price would be
Two slots $50
Instructor pay $30 for the jump
$20 for the refresher

$100 seems reasonable.

[woodpecker 0]

A fairish price would be
Two slots $50
Instructor pay $30 for the jump
$20 for the refresher

$100 seems reasonable.

[peregrinerose 0]

Yes, the price is reasonable not including gear rental. Gear rental is completely unrelated to recurrency jumping as a lot of folks with his number of jumps already own their own gear. There's no reason it would be included in the fees.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda