What happens to the raft?

[cyn 0]

I have been mulling over the idea of a pyjama load for my 100th jump and a pajama party afterward. I just got a brain wave and thought how cool it would be if we could get a blow up air mattress out the door on that jump. Yes I know it would be hard to hang on to. I think I can find something or rig something up that would make it easier. It would be just like a raft jump (kind of). I'm just wondering... what happens to the raft after everyone bails out? It sure would suck for that to come plummetting out of the sky on someone or on someone's car... I swear to god officer - I was just driving down the highway and this blow up air mattress came out of nowhere. Any advice here?

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"

[chuteless 1]

The raft ( or air mattress) would have to have air let out of it periodically when climbing to altitude. I doubt you would hang ontpo it unless you tied ropes around iot for handles.

Once you take it into freefall , the mattress would have very little air in it by the time you opened your chute, and by the time it hit the ground, it would likely have none.

You could just let it fall to the ground...it would be a mistake to try to hang onto it when you open.

Consider the wind direction and try to have it blow awayfrom a highway. That could give you some serious legal problems if it cause an accident.

Have fun

Bill Cole

[jsaxton 0]

PLEASE get advice from someone senior who has done raft jumps before attempting this. Even with a raft it is CRITICAL to your safety how the handholds are rigged.

With an air mattress I can imagine ways that it could be rigged that would be VERY dangerous.

[Reginald 0]

Raft dives are dangerous jumps. PM "raftman" to get some advice. He knows as much about raft dives as anyone.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[cyn 0]

holy christ people. I'm not an idiot. a simple answer would suffice. obviously the dz isn't going to allow me to do something retarded anyways. I have to have a viable plan first. That's why i'm here.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"

[councilman24 36]

These ARE simple answers trying to look out for your safety. Reread them. You asked, listen up. Not sure what you would consider a simple answer.

There are a multitude of issues you seem to not have considered, including jumping in pajamas, that can KILL you.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[billvon 2,379]

>obviously the dz isn't going to allow me to do something retarded anyways.

Oh, I think you'd be very surprised at the retarded stuff the DZ will let you get away with.

[monkycndo 0]

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>obviously the dz isn't going to allow me to do something retarded anyways.

Oh, I think you'd be very surprised at the retarded stuff the DZ will let you get away with.

Bill, I'll hold your beer. Show me what you got.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[cyn 0]

Reg - thanks for the advice. I have contacted. I apologize if I implied you called me an idiot. I am aware raft jumps are dangerous, was just looking for some advice to make it less dangerous. Thanks.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"

[cyn 0]

ahhahaa. Obviously you have not seen my pyjamas. They are no different than my free fly suit as a matter of fact. Perhaps YOU assume to much.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"

[billvon 2,379]

>Bill, I'll hold your beer. Show me what you got.

Well, I recall one four-way at Lost Prairie that got songs written about it, it was so retarded . . .

[cyn 0]

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The raft ( or air mattress) would have to have air let out of it periodically when climbing to altitude. I doubt you would hang ontpo it unless you tied ropes around iot for handles.

Once you take it into freefall , the mattress would have very little air in it by the time you opened your chute, and by the time it hit the ground, it would likely have none.

You could just let it fall to the ground...it would be a mistake to try to hang onto it when you open.

Consider the wind direction and try to have it blow awayfrom a highway. That could give you some serious legal problems if it cause an accident.

Have fun

Bill Cole

Now that, sir, is good advice. I didnt' see that at first. I had heard the whole - don't fill it up all the way because the pressure outside is diff. from the pressur inside. Like people's lungs when they're scuba diving. What is the fall rate of a half inflated raft I wonder. Difficult to calculate the drift of it. The DZ I'd be at is kind of near a highway. That's what I was most worried about. Perhaps something like this would be better suited to a place that's out in the middle of nowhere, with nothing to harm but the trees. I would hate to be the one respoinsible for f-ing something up & causing the DZ to be shut down or sued. Further thought & discussion are obviously required.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"

[cyn 0]

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These ARE simple answers trying to look out for your safety. Reread them. You asked, listen up. Not sure what you would consider a simple answer.

There are a multitude of issues you seem to not have considered, including jumping in pajamas, that can KILL you.

I would call a SIMPLE answer someone SIMPLY answering the question that I asked and not going on and on about safety, which I did not ask about once. I realize it's not safe. Neither is skydiving. That's hardly the point. I'm trying to determine for myself whether or not it is within the acceptable realm of risk for myself, just like I did when I decide to persue this sport.

Also have posted back regarding my pyjama's. I'm pretty sure my one piece yellow ducky pj's aren't going to kill me.

If you have some useful advice regarding the question at hand I'd love to hear it. That's why I'm here.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"

[skymama 35]

Don't buy anything too cheap either. Look what happened to the raft that ladyskydiver and I were in one time. The bottom slowly ripped around the seam and our legs ended up dangling through as our upper bodies were still in the raft. We laughed about it afterwards, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that bad things really could have happened as far as us getting caught up into it or the ropes as it ripped.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[rwieder 0]

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Any advice here?

Just don't do it. A raft dive is probably the most dangerous sky dive you can make. I've seen stuff i don't even want to discuss during raft dive exits.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[cyn 0]

hahahah. That's jokes. I can see what you mean by bad things happening. I'm glad you all came out of it ok though. There are a lot of ideas I've had that seem fun when I first think of them and then when I think about them further realize how incredibly stupid they are. Sigh.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"

[cyn 0]

Ok folks. I will say this. Obviously there is some opinion that a raft dive is very dangerous. As it stands I don't feel as though the location I was thinking of doing it would be a good one, purely for its close proximity to a highway and me not being able to be in control of the object during its decent. I understand all of your concerns regarding the safety of this type of jump and while I will still probably do it I will wait for the right opportunity to present itself. I do appreciate all of the advice on this subject though. Thank you.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"

[rwieder 0]

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Any advice here?

Just don't do it. A raft dive is probably the most dangerous sky dive you can make. I've seen stuff i don't even want to discuss during raft dive exits.


Those pictures SkyMama posted are for real. I'll tell you what makes the raft dives so dangerous. 1) The cheapy rafts have a rope around the perimeter, instead of the hight dollar rafts having molded handles and reinforced bottoms. I've been on a bunch of raft dives, one from a twin otter, the rest from Casa'a (Rear Exit Jump Ships) The Otter jump went bad immediately, i shant elaborate,

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[cyn 0]

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***Any advice here?

The Otter jump went bad immediately, i shant elaborate,

Enough said. I had heard that a side door exit would be incredibly difficult to pull off. The more I think about it the more I can see it going bad on the hill and difficult if not impossible to recover from. The more people on the jump trying to hang on to a raft = the more bodies fumbling through the air at the same object. I get it. As I said - if the right opportunity presents itself in the right set of circumstances it's something i'd very strongly consider doing. The occasion I was thinking of is obviously not it - a side door exit being one of the very compelling reasons why. The highway being another.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"

[fireballgrl 0]

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Any advice here?

Just don't do it. A raft dive is probably the most dangerous sky dive you can make. I've seen stuff i don't even want to discuss during raft dive exits.

Wow! I was considering doing one at Couch Freaks but I will only have just over 100 jumps or so by then... I had no idea they were considered such a dangerous jump! I think I will just stick to the lingerie load

[NovaTTT 1]

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I would call a SIMPLE answer someone SIMPLY answering the question that I asked and not going on and on about safety, which I did not ask about once. I realize it's not safe. **** Neither is skydiving. **** (empahasis added)

Skydiving is not safe? That's news to me. If you realize the raft jump is not safe (paraphrase), then why would you do it? If skydiving is not safe, why then do you jump?

Cyn, I think you can come up with simple answers all by yourself. Those won't necessarily be good answers. By coming to this forum and asking for advice, which is a good thing, you asked for more than you realized. But you did ask about safety - it's the point of your post - What about the raft? - remember? That's a safety issue. I find it incredibly silly of you to chastise the posters who are giving you good advice about safety issues that I feel certain never occurred to you.

Skydiving is inherently dangerous, yes, but it is definitely safe when safety procedures, precautions and equipment are observed, used and followed.

I recommend, FWIW, that you re-read the posts and get a lot of advice from your S&TA, experienced up-jumpers at your DZ, and jumpers who are familiar with object jumps.

Also, FWIW, I recommend you find a way to understand that procedures and practices in our dangerous sport are inextricably bound to safety practices, procedures and equipment. To execute the former without the latter leads to a highly probable outcome known as "Incident". The "Safety and Training" forum isn't a bad place to begin.

Perhaps a jumper with more experience than you wouldn't get the safety feedback in reply to a question such as yours, but you are not that experienced jumper.

Regardless of experience, however, we all need safety reminders, gear and pin checks and the eyes of our fellow jumpers scrutinizing our practices, packing and gear. As and if you progress in this sport this will become clear to you.

Nova D17887

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[poe62 0]

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Any advice here?

Wow! I was considering doing one at Couch Freaks but I will only have just over 100 jumps or so by then... I had no idea they were considered such a dangerous jump! I think I will just stick to the lingerie load

They're fun, but I know some scary stories that have happened at my DZ alone. I was on two with RAFTMAN, and the second we rode to breakoff. As we descended the raft deflated...swallowing three of us up inside a taco essentially. This is a GOOD scenario and it was still scary thinking about bail out time.

~Nikki
http://www.facebook.com/poe62

Irgity Dirgity

[BillyVance 34]

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Raft dives are dangerous jumps. PM "raftman" to get some advice. He knows as much about raft dives as anyone.

Scotty Carbone probably knows a lot about raft dives. He organized them every year at the WFFC. I was on one of them as a diver. Those damn things float even when loaded with skydivers sitting in them and 5 or 6 hanging around the outside! If you don't get on it quickly enough, you're gonna sink out and go low. Waaaaay low. On my jump in question, I went low. I did my best to stay up to no avail. What I missed was the dude on the jump that went even lower than I did. I went right by him under canopy maybe 20 feet away with my pilot chute out and in my hands.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[PhreeZone 14]

Raft jumps are not that dangrous if planned and executed correctly. I've done probally 15-20 of them and had a fairly good success rate on them. Its when things are thrown together do things go downhill quickly. A Tailgate is required, you also need a pilot that can correctly float the tailgate. If the pilot can't you are going to be fighting it the entire exit and it will not work. There are some good posts in the archives of here that lay out step by step how to do raft jumps if you look for them.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[cyn 0]

Nova. I asked a simple question and expected a simple answer, which I received from several people who were very helpful. While I appreciate knowing the risks involved specifically - a comment like "it's not safe" isn't exactly helpful. I'm prefectly within my rights to chastise someone who's chastising me and offering no helpful advice what so ever. For them to assume I'm jumping in some rediculous get-up that will KILL me is totally uncalled for. They don't even know me. Help was what I was looking for. Not a finger wagging. It's not neccessary.

I'm sure that we can agree skydiving is not a safe sport. We're not playing golf, Nova, although I'm sure people have been injured doing that too. We have all decided that with the right precautions it is within our own individual realms of acceptable risk based on our own set of circumstances. Furthermore I can outline several million posts where people are chastised for saying skydiving IS safe with words in response to that statment like KILL and DIE and FATALITY, CRIPPLED, INJURED, DEAD. I also don't think I've ever had to sign a waiver with those words in it for golfing. Some people just like to take an opposite point of view regardless of the circumstances don't they?

Absolutely I has looking for help and advice from a more experienced skydiver. Why do you think I'm here to begin with? I've received it from others.

Please don't presume to know me, Nova. I could sit here and justify why I'm safe but you don't even know me so what does it matter? And it will result in further brow beating from others like you. I didn't ask for a safety lesson. All I asked for was "what happens to the raft" That's it. Although I will say that the constructive and detailed advice of other posts has been very helpfull and I'm glad to have read it and I did read it btw. Please don't presume that I haven't.

I think the point of this thread was achieved. Raft jumps are not safe and not a good idea much like many of the other things we do anyway. There are a lot of things that can go wrong. I'm glad to know that and really glad to know what those things are. I'm super glad for those pictures skymama posted. A picture is worth a thousand words. Also learned - the descent of the raft is not controlled and depends entirely on it drifing to a safe place on it's own. Someone had told me it would be fine to hang on to it like you'd hold onto a hoola hoop after a hoola hoop jump and that just sounded wrong to me. I'm glad I asked this question for those 2 things I've learned. I just don't like the finger wagging. It's totally unneccessary. I'm not a child. I'm asking for advice because I'm being smart about it. I wish that could be seen instead of this mess that's developed.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body"