billvon 2,397 #51 July 7, 2008 >The same could be said about some skydivers. True, but people have a lot more rights than dogs. Skydivers have a reason to be on a drop zone; dogs do not (other than their owners think it's cool.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #52 July 7, 2008 Dogs, kids, all cool as long as you keep 'em where they do not bother anyone and clean up after them. We had a few dog-related incidents at my DZ, like 2 dogs running playing unto the taxi way and the owner of one of them who's a skydiver complained someone left the gate open, well yeah it's a gate for keeping the public behind we not there to mind your dog, same with bigmouth kids "yeah but YOU are on the other side" One small dog almost caused a serious/fatal incident when a swooper accidentaly put his foot down on it when turning to a blindman, he ended up with linetwist heading for the fence at full speed, he thought he was dead meat but managed to twist away far enough to avoid injury. WTF is a dog doing on that side of the gate, the "solution" was proposed to not land there anymore, hell, the only solution in my book is to keep the dogs behind the %^& fence! BTW the dog survived too. Don't get me wrong I love dogs, but they need to be well behaved, quiet and no bother and we don't want to have to babysit them if you can't. Same for kids, having my camera helmet jumped on ruined my video camera that was in the hangar (€ 1050 thank you very much) and of course no one offered who done it or offered to pay for the damage And yesterday I asked the parents (one of them a skydiver) to keep their kid with icecream out of the hangar, response: "do you know how hard it is to control a 1 1/2 yr child" not really but she still shouldn't be in the hangar with food as no one should, esp drippy sticky food. If you take responsibility i'm fine with just about any pet (/kid). Heck we even had a girl come to the DZ a few times with her cat, it was on a leash, very well behaved ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #53 July 7, 2008 As long as they're not anywhere near people's gear, and well behaved, I don't have a problem with them. It might make sense for a dropzone to ask that a dog earn his Canine Good Citizen certificate before coming to the dropzone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #54 July 7, 2008 Quote One thing you can do if there's a shady spot, is to build an enclosure (they make metal fencing pieces for this -- look at the pet store) to keep her in at some convenient place at the DZ. That way she is close, and others don't have to worry about her getting into the way. Thats awesome. And throw in a few toys so that the kids dont get bored. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #55 July 7, 2008 Quote Skydivers have a reason to be on a drop zone; dogs do not (other than their owners think it's cool.) Want to bet? Then explain how training the military and SAR how to jump with dogs is not a reason for them to be there? Also, there are times that skydivers come out to the DZ and don't jump, so they have no "reason" for being there.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #56 July 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteSkydivers have a reason to be on a drop zone; dogs do not (other than their owners think it's cool.) Want to bet? Then explain how training the military and SAR how to jump with dogs is not a reason for them to be there? Service dogs would be another example (since not allowing them to be there could possibly be infringing upon the rights of the skydivers who have a right to be on the dropzone - even if the skydiver in question is a tandem student who uses a service dog). However, I'm in agreement with Bill in that the vast majority of dogs on dropzones are there for no reason other than for their owners' pleasure - they're not there acting in a service capacity, nor are they involved in anything relating to the skydiving operation. If a dropzone allows dogs and consistently enforces rules about where dogs are and aren't allowed to be, I'm fine with it. But if dogs are allowed to run around willy nilly and get anywhere up and around my gear (and I include not only my skydiving gear, but also my tent and personal belongings if I'm camping), then it's a problem for me."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #57 July 7, 2008 Pets & Children are exactly the same in terms of the DZ. If you don't know how to, or aren't prepared to keep them out of the way and from messing people equipment up, don't bring them. Otherwise, fine. Our DZ has a no dogs policy (I'm a dog fan) so that's fine but then to have people show up with children that are off playing on the creepers that a 4 way team needs is pretty rude on the part of the parents. Not to mention the child that managed to spill beer (bumped into it) over my wife's packing mat the other night at the DZ, the mother is the SO of a jumper & didn't say or do anything about it. That's just inconsiderate & rude. Cliff notes: If you can't control your pet/child, they shouldn't be at the DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #58 July 8, 2008 Personally, I wish folks would leave the &^%$# dogs and kids at home! Most folks who claim their dogs/kids are well behaved aren't and most folks who claim they religiously clean up after their dogs/kids don't and get bent if one dares critique their dog's or kid's behavior. Having said that though... I know several DZ Dogs that I'd rather have around then several DZ Kids... I've learned over the years to just grit my teeth and put up with it if any particular DZO lets folks allow their dogs to be at the DZ. You just gotta watch where you step and drop your gear. Be sure to pack-up your stuff after every jump and then get it up off the deck where some dog can't come by and heik their leg on it. BUT don't get me started on DZ Cats! I've had to help more than one fellow jumper clean cat piss off of their canopy. A 12ga does wonders on DZ Cats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,397 #59 July 8, 2008 >Then explain how training the military and SAR how to jump with dogs is >not a reason for them to be there? Yes. If you want to train military dogs, then by all means, take them to a military drop zone and do so. >Also, there are times that skydivers come out to the DZ and don't >jump, so they have no "reason" for being there. Their reason is that they wish to be there. In the US, people have the freedom to come and go as they wish, provided they follow the laws concerning trespass, loitering etc. Dogs do not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SansSuit 1 #60 July 8, 2008 Quote Thats awesome. And throw in a few toys so that the kids dont get bored. I got it. And I agree !! Peace, -Jeff.Peace, -Dawson. http://www.SansSuit.com The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 2 #61 July 8, 2008 QuoteSomething like this. Wont' stop barking, but contains waste so you can take care of it, and keeps her safe and in one place. True, but something like this works for dogs and kids.SCR #14809 "our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe" (look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #62 July 8, 2008 Quote Something like this. Wont' stop barking, but contains waste so you can take care of it, and keeps her safe and in one place. Even if the dz is dog friendly, having one along makes it clear that you consider your dog to be your responsibility, which will do nothing but help. I bought that exact thing (X-pen). Minka managed to climb out of it her first weekend at the DZ when she was 9 weeks old (it took doing a sideways chin-up...LITERALLY a chin-up, as in her head was what pulled her up so she could get a leg over the top of the fence). I've found it works much better at keeping her out of an area than keeping her in an area. In any case, now she's either crated inside my trailer, tied out to the bumper, or on a leash whenever skydiving operations are going on. I have to be at the dropzone every single weekend that we're open, and I have to be at work every day during the week. Evenings and weekends are when Minka gets to be with me. If I couldn't bring her to the DZ, in the short-term I'd find somewhere off the DZ to park my trailer and I'd cut out early every day to go "home". More than likely I'd at some point have to choose between finding Minka a better home and frequenting a more distant but dog-friendly dropzone. I'd be breaking a promise either way, but breaking the one to my dog would be worse because she couldn't possibly understand why I was doing so. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #63 July 8, 2008 QuoteQuoteSomething like this. Wont' stop barking, but contains waste so you can take care of it, and keeps her safe and in one place. True, but something like this works for dogs and kids. Thats just cruel... I mean, the kid's teeth could get chipped on the metal wires as they try to chew their way out of it. I may end up regretting sharing this with you lot (because some more entreprising person will run with it and make millions from it...) but I have the perfect solution (for kids anyways, but I am sure we could adapt it for dogs too): 1- go to Home Depot and buy a large shed 2- double up the walls and fill the interwall space with noise suppressing insolation 3- make a few hole towards to top of the shed for ventilation (baffled, you dont want the cheerfull screams to come out) 3- make a few drainage holes at the bottom of the shed 4- attach a spinkler system on the ceiling 5- fill the shed half way with those Ikea playpen nerf balls 6- install a slide through the roof so that you can drop the kids in with no chance of escape. And there you have it! As kids show up at the DZ, just put them in the "play area". Install a garden hose on a timer to the sprinkler system to cool off the little angels (and to, mmm, rinse off the nerf balls... we all have heard about the "contamination" of those playpens), and open the door at the end of the day to let the kids go home!Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeasabird 0 #64 July 8, 2008 Studies have shown that dog-haters have Daddy issues. Kidding?...maybe. Seriously, dogs are great anywhere when under control...until they bite your face off.----- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 2 #65 July 8, 2008 Sounds like a Japanese Beetle trap.SCR #14809 "our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe" (look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #66 July 8, 2008 Quote>Then explain how training the military and SAR how to jump with dogs is >not a reason for them to be there? Yes. If you want to train military dogs, then by all means, take them to a military drop zone and do so.Bill, you of all people know that the military uses civilian DZ's all the time and SAR here in the U.S. is usually not military. The last SAR team that I did training with brought in $38,000 to a local DZ for training, jumps and gear. So, do you think it was a bad business decision on the DZ's part? As I said in my previous post “No one including me wants a bad dog, kid or person at the DZ but that does not mean all are bad.” QuoteTheir reason is that they wish to be there. In the US, people have the freedom to come and go as they wish, provided they follow the laws concerning trespass, loitering etc. Dogs do not. I disagree as a lot of DZ's have given owners the right to have dogs at the DZ if they "wish" to and just like people they can take that right away. There are also laws that govern dogs too and in some cases would make it illegal for you to prevent dogs from being at the DZ. The bottom line is I don't think dogs, kids etc. are always a problem at the DZ and should not be punished for those who are. I would be the first to say keep the bad ones out and their owners too if they can't control them and be responsible.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,397 #67 July 8, 2008 >I disagree as a lot of DZ's have given owners the right to have dogs at >the DZ if they "wish" to . . . Agreed. Often skydivers want to show off their cool stuff. They bring their dogs and let them run around, or their Harleys and park them on the sidewalk, or their radios so they can play their favorite bands. And all that is fine - as long as the DZO agrees. No one has an inherent right to do any of that, though. >There are also laws that govern dogs too and in some cases would make >it illegal for you to prevent dogs from being at the DZ. There are no laws that govern dogs, and dogs cannot be ticketed and arrested for violating any law. There are laws that apply to dog _owners_ though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #68 July 8, 2008 I remember the last thread about dogs at the DZ, which was in the Bonfire a year or more ago? This thread is just rehashing most of the same arguments. I will say this though, I'm not a dog lover, but I tolerate them, the well-behaved ones anyways. I only ask the dog owners if they have trained their dogs well enough to stay out of wherever they're not welcome in, and to shut the fuck up while they're there, and clean up their shit, then I don't mind them being at the DZ. That said, I still won't leave my gear unattended or unprotected at a DZ with dogs. I have a plastic bin to keep my stuff in and will if I feel I need to. Same goes for kids. If you can't control your kids or make them behave, don't bring them. The DZ isn't exactly Mr Roger's neighborhood. My little girl is 2 years old and I still haven't brought her with me. She's not old enough yet to be left alone while I jump so therefore I make sacrifices (yes, my jumping the past 2 years have suffered, but that's life). Sometimes my wife has to kick me out of the house for a weekend so I can go jump or hang out at the DZ, and I do need that once in a while. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marnie7 0 #69 July 8, 2008 I live 3 hours away from the nearest dropzone so often I have to take my dog with me. These two items ensure his and the jumpers safety as best possible. If dog owners cannot control their dogs then they shouldn't be there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fff3 0 #70 July 8, 2008 If one person has to bring their dog suddenly everyone does and then we all get to step in the dog shit, track it into the packing area and then on our precious gear. If you don't bring your dog I won't put out bowls of anti-freeze. J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #71 July 8, 2008 Quote If you don't bring your dog I won't put out bowls of anti-freeze. Not funny. Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The_Don 0 #72 July 8, 2008 Yep! That was not cool at all. I am NOT being loud. I'm being enthusiastic! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iluvtofly 0 #73 July 8, 2008 Or you could be like my DZ where everyone actually watches their dogs and/or kids. Some of the dogs are trained to poop in the woods, those that are not their owners know that they must clean it up immediately or no more doggie at DZ. Also, no dogs allowed in the packing area while jumping is going on. Kids are also well behaved at my DZ. There is always someone watching them. No problems with kids ever breaking/ruining anyone's equipment. There was one dog that used to be allowed at the DZ but one day he bit another dog. That dog is no longer allowed back and the owner completely understands why. It's all a matter of people being mature enough to take responsibility. It is possible to have both dogs and kids on the DZ and not have any problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #74 July 8, 2008 Quote Quote If you don't bring your dog I won't put out bowls of anti-freeze. Not funny. You aint kidding, I'm not fond of dogs, but that was just plain mean."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #75 July 8, 2008 Sheesh, as I read this thread, I feel that a lot of the disagreements seem to be stemed more along the lines of those who like dogs in general and those who don't. I think those anti-dog proponents need to take a chill pill. Look, what reason is there a well behaved, potty-trained dog that minds his own business can't come and be with their owners at the dropzone? He'll a normal skydiving community will piss and shit on the landing area more than 10 dogs will! Case and Point: Skydive Kansas and Freefall Express are two great midwest Dropzones. Instead of running kids off, FFE built a playground on the backside of the hanger to help keep kids out of trouble. SDKS did that some too, but I think the kids are getting old enough to manage themselves. In one swoop, the DZO's have not only made their dropzones a more welcoming place to be, but also controlled the problem. =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
