Repeat an AFF Level? Advise please ....

[sxc 0]

I am an AFF student. Sunday I did my Level 3 jump and my instructors passed me. However, I think I want to do that level again. When the second instructor let go of me, I started turning slightly. He held on again, let go again, I started turning.

I feel like I did not get to experience what "stable" feels like and I would like to repeat that jump before we move on to the next stage.

Is this unusual, to repeat a jump you have passed? Would you advise doing it over and getting more comfortable with level 3 or just go on to level 4?

You thoughts and comments are appreciated.

S.

[NWernig 0]

I would trust in your instructors. We all made some minor errors in AFF- just keep moving forward. Have Fun!!!

Nathan

[peregrinerose 0]

The difference between level 3 and level 4 is that you go from two jump masters down to one.... otherwise, it's exactly the same skydive, so I would not bother repeating level three.

A little bit of a turn does not mean you were unstable. Stability means you are belly to earth... if you are on your back tumbling through the sky, you are unstable. A little bit of a turn just means you were having trouble maintaining your heading, that's all. Not a big deal, and very common.

The criteria for passing from one level to the next is not perfection, none of us look for a perfect skydive from our students. Were you on your belly? Were you altitude aware? Did you pull yourself? Was your heading control reasonable (meaning a little drift that first time is ok, but an uncontrolled flat spin is not)? If the answer to all of these is, yes, I'd agree with your instructors, go to level 4.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[AllisonH 0]

I'm sure your instructors wouldn't have passed you if they didn't feel you were ready to try the next level. However, it is ALWAYS ok to ask to repeat a level/jump/learning objective if you didn't quite feel comfortable with it the first time around, or would like some more practice.

I would suggest bringing this up with your instructors from the previous jump next time you're at the DZ. Ask what the requirements were for passing level 3, how the instructors feel you did at those requirements, and what you will be doing on the next jump. This information will help you make a more informed decision about what you want to do next. For example, in our program there are some points in the progression where 2 levels are very similar - in this case you may want to move on, whereas you wouldn't if the next jump were quite different.

[sxc 0]

Thanks for the comments.

The next level has only 1 instructor and he is going to move around in front of me and then let go.

I'll say it ... I am nervous about that!!!

I will definately be talking this over with the instructor next jump.

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

The difference between level 3 and level 4 is that you go from two jump masters down to one.... otherwise, it's exactly the same skydive, so I would not bother repeating level three.

Some places still do the "old school" 7 level aff, which would make her level 4 a single JM jump with turns and forward movement.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[flyinhi79 0]

Quote

Thanks for the comments.

The next level has only 1 instructor and he is going to move around in front of me and then let go.

I'll say it ... I am nervous about that!!!

I will definately be talking this over with the instructor next jump.

Why are you nervous about the instructor letting go? Just remember, the most important position to fall stable is to arch. The harder you arch the more likely you will fall stable. Practice arching as much as you can. I am sure the instructor would not let go of you if he did not feel you could fly stable.

PS. One thing that helped me perform my AFF steps correct is saying them out loud during my skydive. It was a verbal way of reminding myself what to do, this included telling myself to arch.

Good Luch and don't forget to report back to the forum how it went.

[MomDaBomb 0]

I was really nervous before I did that too. I didn't even feel the instructor let go so when he moved to the front I wasn't nervous at all....I was so excited and just in total disbelief that no one was holding on to me. I had to watch my video several times just to convince myself that was really me.

[Chubba 0]

Don't repeat it, trust your instructors.

Here's my AFF4 (release dive) thread...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3163601;page=unread#unread

my rig caught the door on exit, I span during the dive and I dislocated my shoulder on deployment.

The instructor said I did great and passed me.

Came back 1 month later for AFF5 / AFF6 and those 2 dives were perfect.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Regarding:

Quote

The harder you arch the more likely you will fall stable.

When I was a student I found the terminology "arch hard" to be unhelpful. In my mind, "hard" meant rigid... rigid ain't good. When I changed my vocabulary to "arch deeply" it worked better for me. I can relax and arch "deeply"... I cannot relax and arch "hard".

This may seem like silly semantic games, but it really made a difference in my performance... and I bet that I am not alone in that.

BSBD

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[heavydude 0]

Relax & have fun, you will probably fly better as a result. I was stressed during early AFFs and then discovered I flew better w/ no on hanging on to me !
If you can get tunnel time it works wonders.... probably saved me from repeating 3-4 levels.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Quote

I am an AFF student. Sunday I did my Level 3 jump and my instructors passed me. However, I think I want to do that level again. When the second instructor let go of me, I started turning slightly. He held on again, let go again, I started turning.

I feel like I did not get to experience what "stable" feels like and I would like to repeat that jump before we move on to the next stage.

Is this unusual, to repeat a jump you have passed? Would you advise doing it over and getting more comfortable with level 3 or just go on to level 4?

You thoughts and comments are appreciated.

S.

woah. exact same thing happened to me, no joke. i actually ended up repeating that level and my wallet regretted it.

in the grander scheme of things i think it's important to keep pushing onto your later levels and doing as much ground work as possible (visualizing, etc) and relaxing. the mechanics thing (small turns that you simply cannot feel like you're in control) will *click* eventually.

im not an instructor or coach however i was once an AFF student too and this is my opinion.

and here's a tip that really helped me-
if you have a small turn, its obviously a subtle assymetry you're not accounting for. tap your legs together (leg check) and bring in your arms to your ears and then back out (arm check) and you should have a correct symmetry.

[Chubba 0]

Quote

When I was a student I found the terminology "arch hard" to be unhelpful. In my mind, "hard" meant rigid... rigid ain't good. When I changed my vocabulary to "arch deeply" it worked better for me. I can relax and arch "deeply"... I cannot relax and arch "hard".

This may seem like silly semantic games, but it really made a difference in my performance... and I bet that I am not alone in that.

Yep, once you're stable on your belly, just smile and relax... it's much easier to fly.

[peregrinerose 0]

Quote

Regarding:

Quote

The harder you arch the more likely you will fall stable.

When I was a student I found the terminology "arch hard" to be unhelpful. In my mind, "hard" meant rigid... rigid ain't good. When I changed my vocabulary to "arch deeply" it worked better for me. I can relax and arch "deeply"... I cannot relax and arch "hard".

This may seem like silly semantic games, but it really made a difference in my performance... and I bet that I am not alone in that.

BSBD

Oooh, I like that terminology. I'm blatantly stealing that to try on some of my students.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[popsjumper 2]

I say do what is most comfortable for YOU. You know what that is...just by asking indicates that you know what that is.

-Repeating the dive is a good thing in that it gives you an opportunity to gain some confidence...and that's very important.
-Confidence contributes greatly to being able to relax in the air which is very important.
-Nailing down one skill before you move on to the next is very important.
-It is a mistake to sacrifice safety for $$$. Repeat the jump.

This learning process is all about YOU, nobody else. Take advantage of it while you can.

Case in point.
Student barely squeaked through with a "pass" on Level 3 with two instructors.
(Note: One instructor did not want to pass him. One did. The one relinquished responsibility to the other. The one that passed him is the one that went with him on the next level. But that's another story.)
Level 4 with one instructor resulted in an uncontrolled high-speed spin and backslide out of reach of the instructor. Results? Cypres fire.

Lesson learned? Better safe than sorry.

Note: You have a better chance on performing well on Level 4 if you nail down Level 3 first.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[peregrinerose 0]

The flip side of this is that if not pressed a little bit to move forward, students never learn to believe in themselves either.... I'd still be doing level 3s now if it was a 'move forward when you feel comfortable' thing Students are their own worse critics and generally perceive themselves as much worse skydivers than they really are (and then they turn into 100 jump wonders who think they know far more than they really do... how does that happen??)

She should talk with both instructors of her level 3, if there was video, watch it, and go from there.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[cocheese 0]

Remember this: You are on your own up there. Always have been. Always will be. Counting on an instructor to save you is for tandem jumps.

[sxc 0]

So I jumped again yesterday.
I talked to my instructor and we did kind of a Level 3.5 thing! I only had one instuctor (which was new and a little freaky!). He let me go and I started to turn. I tried to correct it, but in hindsight, I was correcting the wrong direction and making the turn worse. He let me do about 2 full 360's and then he caught me and stopped me turning in time for me to pull.

I am very glad I did not move on to L4 as I would have been totally overwhelmed.

But I did not panic, which was a big thing for me.

I have to do the jump again.

And my landing was much better - didn't hurt anything this time!