0
ghost47

Wind Direction Changes

Recommended Posts

Not sure if this belongs here or in Safety and Training, so sorry if the wrong forum.

Last Sunday, I passed my AFF 7 jump, and soon (hopefully this weekend), I hope to pass AFF 8. After which I'll be jumping without an instructor.

While I'm excited about this, one thing that has me somewhat worried is when the wind changes direction after we've boarded the plane.

In the past, my instructor has simply gotten on the radio and said, okay, the winds have changed, so I'm going to guide you through your new landing pattern. After 8, obviously, there won't be anyone to do that. There will just be me.

So I'm looking for tips on how to tell that the wind has changed.

I know to look at people who have landed before me, and to emulate them in terms of landing direction. I also know to try to look for wind socks and such (though, for me, by the time I'm able to see them, I'm usually too low for it to matter).

Any other tips? I'll ask my instructors too, but figured it couldn't hurt to see what ideas people here had. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what i do is look at the winds before i board and on my way up look outside the window at the flags, also see which way the pilot took off, he takes off and lands into the wind same way you do. but you need to train your eyes to see the wind socks, i can see them from about 2500' and at that altitude i am able to make whatever adjustment i need to land properly, you can also look at dust from a vehicle or if you have a moto cross track near by see which way the dirt is blowing, also if there are trees surrounding the DZ see which way they are swaying. there are a lot of natural "wind socks" that you can see from much higher than 2500'. but also know that you will be pulling a lot higher than any of the other skydivers on the loads (for the most part) and you can watch the first second third and fourth group of people land before you are at 2k. just use them for now. i am not an instructor by any means but i am just letting you know what i do. start practicing trying to see the wind sock from high up to, it took me a few jumps before i was able to see it, determine winds, determine approach and execute properly. good luck and blue skies.
JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
one thing that helps alot is to do penetration checks and find a point directly on the ground below you and see which direction you are moving and at what rate. I typically do this while in the brakes. penetration check it basically seeing how fast you are moving with no brakes. if you are not braking and are moving backwards you are obviously facing the wind and a pretty strong one at that. if you are absolutely cruising forward than the wind is most likely at your back. if you are not moving at all and just dropping than you are facing the wind and a wind speed is pretty much the same as your canopies forward drive. if you are moving forward and right (crabbing) than the wind is blowing from your left and possibly rear. Ths is just one of those things i have kinda picked up and have a sense for, so it's hard to put into words. I'm sure more experienced jumpers have better advice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

one thing that helps alot is to do penetration checks and find a point directly on the ground below you and see which direction you are moving and at what rate. I typically do this while in the brakes. penetration check it basically seeing how fast you are moving with no brakes. if you are not braking and are moving backwards you are obviously facing the wind and a pretty strong one at that. if you are absolutely cruising forward than the wind is most likely at your back. if you are not moving at all and just dropping than you are facing the wind and a wind speed is pretty much the same as your canopies forward drive. if you are moving forward and right (crabbing) than the wind is blowing from your left and possibly rear. Ths is just one of those things i have kinda picked up and have a sense for, so it's hard to put into words. I'm sure more experienced jumpers have better advice.



by no means am i much more experienced but hte problem with this method is that at altitude, the wind can be blowing a different direction than where your landing. hence winds aloft forecast's. and hence how hot air balloons work.
JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My technique has helped me out a lot, especially in the summer months, when thermals have created wind changes while I'm already in the pattern.

First, I look at the winds as I board the plane. If it's been a pretty consistent day, then there's not much worry, but if it's been light, or other loads have been landing in different directions, then I prepare mentally ahead of time, that I may need to adjust my planned pattern.

Since I jump a fairly conservative canopy (Spectre @ 1.1), most of the time the more aggressive pilots and/or videographers will be landing way before I do. I plan my pattern and approach based on the direction they are landing, and I compare it to what I saw as I boarded the plane, to determine if they have changed. Obviously a big change in direction not only changes your pattern, but your holding area.

At about 1500-1800ft, while still in my supposed holding area, I look at my feet in relation to the ground, and I make 4 90 degree turns, in order to see which direction the wind is coming from. I back it up by looking at other canopies, the windsock, and other natural wind indicators.

While I'm flying the pattern, I'm constantly keeping my eye out for any changes. Plus, you can feel them. If the change is significant enough, I can use flat turns to turn into the wind. A couple times though while on final approch, the wind has made a complete 180. That's when you gotta decide whether or not you can complete a flat turn, or prepare for a down wind landing.
Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are two things to think about.
Wind with a constant direction.
Wind with a very light and variable direction.

I usually try to figure something out on the ground.
I discuss it early with other jumpers in the boarding area. If winds are non-existent, we all agree on a direction and physically point to it. "We will be landing in THIS direction."

My personal indicators are -
The tall palm trees in front of a dz building.
The air is cleaner there and any wind will move the tips of the fronds. I have gotten pretty good at reading it.
There is a similar "wind gauge" tree at most dzs.

Flags require very little wind to move and are on a pole that is higher than a windsock.
And, of course, windsocks.

People will mention that you should be able to tell wind direction by your change in ground speed. Until they hit 30 jumps, I don't see that many people who are very effective at that, especially in very light wind.

You mentioned one thing that I see a lot - people using the above method and figuring it out too late.

My suggestion, since you will be getting out late and dumping high for a while - sit in brakes and observe the traffic.

-- Wind with a very light and variable direction.

Sometimes there is just enough wind to push the sock back and forth. Two or three people land and then... voila... the wind is 120 degrees from its last position.
All of a sudden, 15 jumpers pick 15 landing directions.

On no-wind, or almost no-wind days, I try to figure out, in advance, where a close alternative landing area is, and go there. Try to avoid landing with 22 inventive people.

Land in the agreed-upon no-wind landing direction, but in your own safe place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok, I KNOW this is going to sound weird, but I think that while it's important to pay attention as you're getting on the plane, you should know that at some drop zones (and yeah you're jumping at one of them) the wind can and often does (especially in the afternoon during summer) change on a moments notice.

It can EASILY change from the time you board the plane to the time you land and in fact can and will occasionally change from the time you enter the pattern to the time you land. This is even MORE pronounced if you pop over the hill and decide to make a few jumps at Perris (which I highly recommend as soon as you get your A).

IT IS VERY important to ALWAYS know the status of the winds. Check the landing area multiple times and do NOT assume they will continue to remain in the same direction.

All of the above said, once you commit to the direction you're going to land . . . do it. Do NOT attempt to change direction once you get low. Landing down wind may hurt you, but at your experience level a botched low turn may be FATAL.

BTW, there is a little trick you can use even at jump run altitude to see which way the wind is (currently) blowing . . . look at the water.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The simplest way to determine wind direction is to watch canopies that have landed ahead of you.

As canopies collapse after landing they will almost always fall downwind making a perfect wind direction indicator.

Canopies collapsing in random directions indicate little or no wind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>As canopies collapse after landing they will almost always fall
>downwind making a perfect wind direction indicator.

Yikes! This is definitely not true with fast canopies on light-wind days! My canopy will often collapse in front of me in light winds (up to 5mph) since both me and my canopy are moving fast when I land, and I decelerate faster than the canopy once my feet are down.

Using this indication to set landing direction would result in people alternating landing directions, resulting in half the people landing downwind and everyone landing into each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The simplest way to determine wind direction is to watch canopies that have landed ahead of you.

As canopies collapse after landing they will almost always fall downwind making a perfect wind direction indicator.



Generally I grab a toggle and force the canopy to land on its side beside me - depending of course on how strong the wind is - I wouldn't be confident using it as a wind direction indicator. I'm not an instructor either. Your local instructors can probably point out features unique to your DZ as well.

I pay close attention to the wind direction via our windblades but for me the direction of other canopies over-rides the wind direction - I'd rather land cross or downwind than have a mid-air with another canopy.

Wind direction is important but I have had a few crosswind landings that were uneventful. Best advice I can give is talk to a real live instructor - not a bunch of people on the interweb. We're good for giving you a basket full of questions and ideas to talk to that instructor about.

-Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

>As canopies collapse after landing they will almost always fall
>downwind making a perfect wind direction indicator.

Yikes! This is definitely not true with fast canopies on light-wind days! My canopy will often collapse in front of me in light winds (up to 5mph) since both me and my canopy are moving fast when I land, and I decelerate faster than the canopy once my feet are down.

Using this indication to set landing direction would result in people alternating landing directions, resulting in half the people landing downwind and everyone landing into each other.



If you would have posted his whole post you might have seen this

Quote

Canopies collapsing in random directions indicate little or no wind.



He did address canopys landing in different directions.;) Its called reading the whole post. Not just the part you want to reply to.
Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pilots (especially DZ pilots in my experience) don't always land into the wind.

Other skydivers also don't always land into the wind.

You should be able to see the difference in your ground speed facing different directions if there is a significant amount of wind, or just look at the wind socks, other clues, check it before you take off, or take your best guess.

Landing downwind can be fun if you are capable of it. You shouldn't be jumping a canopy you can't land in a light downwind. If the winds are strong, you should be able to tell the direction or not be jumping. You can also tell by ground drift if you are in a crosswind and be able to point yourself more directly into the wind if the landing area permits it. If there is an established direction you should follow it if you can or land in a different area.
BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI
USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0