BASE rigs from a Plane... again...

[boyd38off 0]

I'm an idiot... can someone please refer me to the FAR (current) that prohibits jumping a BASE rig from an aircraft? Not looking for comments on whether it's smart or not, just the regulation information.

Thanks.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[danielcroft 2]

Don't have the FAR link but aren't all rigs required to have a reserve? That's the idea behind the BASER - belly reserve so you can jump it from a plane.

Is this it? http://www.uspa.org/publications/SIM/2007SIM/section9part105.htm#10543

Newb here so I could be totally wrong on that one.

[councilman24 37]

That's it,

specifically

"one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows:"

Word "approved" of particular importance.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[maxf 0]

You now can with TSOd BaseR rig.
http://www.jumpshack.com/baser.htm

[boyd38off 0]

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That's it,

specifically

"one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows:"

Word "approved" of particular importance.

Read it carefully though... all of those requirements are for IF you use a single harness, dual parachute system. Nowhere (that I can find) does it say that you MUST use a single harness, dual parachute system... It just says that if you use a two parachute system that it must be approved, reserve packed, etc. Right?

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[MakeItHappen 15]

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That's it,

specifically

"one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows:"

Word "approved" of particular importance.

Read it carefully though... all of those requirements are for IF you use a single harness, dual parachute system. Nowhere (that I can find) does it say that you MUST use a single harness, dual parachute system... It just says that if you use a two parachute system that it must be approved, reserve packed, etc. Right?

Sec. 91.307 Parachutes and parachuting

(b) Except in an emergency, no pilot in command may allow, and no person may conduct, a parachute operation from an aircraft within the United States except in accordance with part 105 of this chapter.


QED

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[boyd38off 0]

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That's it,

specifically

"one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows:"

Word "approved" of particular importance.

Read it carefully though... all of those requirements are for IF you use a single harness, dual parachute system. Nowhere (that I can find) does it say that you MUST use a single harness, dual parachute system... It just says that if you use a two parachute system that it must be approved, reserve packed, etc. Right?

Sec. 91.307 Parachutes and parachuting

(b) Except in an emergency, no pilot in command may allow, and no person may conduct, a parachute operation from an aircraft within the United States except in accordance with part 105 of this chapter.


QED

.

OK. got it... but where in Part 105 does it say that you must use a single harness, dual parachute system?

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[boyd38off 0]

For reference, here is 105.43 copied directly from the FAA website:

§ 105.43 Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems.

No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows:

(a) The main parachute must have been packed within 120 days before the date of its use of a certificated parachute rigger, the person making the next jump with that parachute, or a non-certificated person under the direct supervision of a certification parachute rigger.

(b) The reserve parachute must have been packed by a certificated parachute rigger—

(1) Within 120 days before the date of its use, if its canopy, shroud, and harness are composed exclusively of nylon, rayon, or similar synthetic fiber or material that is substantially resistant to damage from mold, mildew, and other fungi, and other rotting agents propagated in a moist environment; or

(2) Within 60 days before the date of its use, if it is composed of any amount of silk, pongee, or other natural fiber, or material not specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section.

(c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[peek 20]

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...but where in Part 105 does it say that you must use a single harness, dual parachute system?

It probably doesn't literally say that you must. It probably assumes either a normal skydiving rig or a Tandem rig, both which meet the requirements.

Just in case I know where you are going with this...

It would appear that it would be legal to use a separate approved harness worn under a BASE rig to attached an approved reserve, (probably a belly mount.)

Can anyone find a hole in this?

It would be great if someone got a positive interpretation of this from an FAA office.

[AggieDave 6]

You know it really doesn't matter what you think it says or doesn't say but what the local FSIDO thinks it says, doesn't say and implies as well.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[danielcroft 2]

I was looking up TSO C-23 but couldn't find it specifically say that but I think the FAR is saying that those are the only permitted parachute systems. It doesn't list alternative systems anywhere else except with regard to foreign skydivers and only if they're jumping gear that's not certified for use in the US. In that case it still has to be certified for use in their own country and operated accordingly.

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You now can with TSOd BaseR rig.
http://www.jumpshack.com/baser.htm

I mentioned the BASER too, it's legal to jump. If you contact Sonic (the guy who designed it) he'd probably be willing to explain.

[boyd38off 0]

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...but where in Part 105 does it say that you must use a single harness, dual parachute system?

It probably doesn't literally say that you must. It probably assumes either a normal skydiving rig or a Tandem rig, both which meet the requirements.

Just in case I know where you are going with this...

It would appear that it would be legal to use a separate approved harness worn under a BASE rig to attached an approved reserve, (probably a belly mount.)

Can anyone find a hole in this?

It would be great if someone got a positive interpretation of this from an FAA office.

I'm not even talking about a separate harness, reserve, or any of that. It appears to me to be legal to jump a BASE rig as long as you're an American and your gear was made in the USA. I'm really just looking for any regulation that would be broken by jumping a BASE rig from a plane. I know everyone ASSUMES it's breaking an FAR, but could it be that all those assumptions are wrong and it IS legal to jump a BASE rig?

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[matthewcline 0]

From your own post:

" unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness "

So if the BASE Rig is only capabale of holding a Main, it doesn'e meet the FAR.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[boyd38off 0]

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From your own post:

" unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness "

So if the BASE Rig is only capabale of holding a Main, it doesn'e meet the FAR.

Matt

Matt, it says that IF you use a single harness, dual parachute system that it must have a main, approved reserve and harness. It does not say that you MUST use a single harness, dual parachute system. The regulation only applies to the use of two parachute system. It in no way regulates the use of a single harness, single parachute system.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[kris2extreme 0]

if FAR 105.43 is not clear enough for you on parachute requirements, AC105-2C further clarifies it for the implied meaning.

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A. Parachute Equipment. FAR Section 105.43 requires a parachutist making an intentional jump to wear a single harness dual pack parachute having at least one main parachute and one approved auxiliary/reserve parachute. The main pack need not be an approved type, but the auxiliary/reserve pack and the harness are required to be an FAA-approved type. The FAA issues a TSO which specifies the minimum performance standard for materials, parts, processes, or appliances used on civil aircraft. (See FAR Part 43, Appendix A(4). The following are examples of approved parachutes as explained in FAR Section 105.43(d).

Hence why the BaseR is legal, as it is a TSO'd harness to be used with a TSO'd chest-mount reserve pack. (I am unaware if the main pack on the BaseR is TSO'd, i'm inclined to say that it is not, but per 105.43, is still legal for intentional jumping)

[councilman24 37]

You've got two choices, a single harness dual parachute system or a dual harness dual parachute tandem system.

I was looking for old language for you but can't find it online. Pre 2001 Part 105, I believe, specified a single harness dual parachute system must be used. They took that out because now you have two choices outlined above.

You can parse the language all you want but you have to go to the supporting documents. Allowing single harness single parachute jumps from an aircraft was never the intent.

Get over it and move on.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[boyd38off 0]

Where are the supporting documents? The FAR's are the law, right? Nowhere in there does it say you have two choices for a parachute jump. It just regulates single harness, dual parachute systems and tandem gear. It does not regulate BASE gear as far as I can tell. Instead of telling me to "get over it", why not help me out and show me where it's illegal? I don't think it's illegal just because someone says so... I want to see the law or regulation that makes it so. It's only reasonable...

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[AggieDave 6]

Ok, I can tell you do not have much experience reading and applying written law.

The supporting document already posted defines the terms used in the actual law. That is typical of written law. There is the law then there are the supporting documents that further define and refine what the law actually means and how it applies.

What more do you want, the documents have been shown and quoted with reference numbers to show that it is not legal.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tbrown 26]

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Where are the supporting documents? The FAR's are the law, right? Nowhere in there does it say you have two choices for a parachute jump. It just regulates single harness, dual parachute systems and tandem gear. It does not regulate BASE gear as far as I can tell. Instead of telling me to "get over it", why not help me out and show me where it's illegal? I don't think it's illegal just because someone says so... I want to see the law or regulation that makes it so. It's only reasonable...

The FARS don't talk about BASE gear, they talk about parachutes. If you want to go on and do it anyway, which is what it sounds like, the Feds probably can't touch you. Your pilot will really appreciate losing his license though. That should make you feel really righteous.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[boyd38off 0]

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Ok, I can tell you do not have much experience reading and applying written law.

The supporting document already posted defines the terms used in the actual law. That is typical of written law. There is the law then there are the supporting documents that further define and refine what the law actually means and how it applies.

What more do you want, the documents have been shown and quoted with reference numbers to show that it is not legal.

Well like I said, I'm an idiot, so can someone please be more specific? The FAR's don't seem to prohibit a single harness, single parachute system (and yeah, I read all the definitions too). Can you please point that out to me? I'm just an idiot looking for some help from people who I thought would know the answer to this one. Thanks in advance.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[boyd38off 0]

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Where are the supporting documents? The FAR's are the law, right? Nowhere in there does it say you have two choices for a parachute jump. It just regulates single harness, dual parachute systems and tandem gear. It does not regulate BASE gear as far as I can tell. Instead of telling me to "get over it", why not help me out and show me where it's illegal? I don't think it's illegal just because someone says so... I want to see the law or regulation that makes it so. It's only reasonable...

The FARS don't talk about BASE gear, they talk about parachutes. If you want to go on and do it anyway, which is what it sounds like, the Feds probably can't touch you. Your pilot will really appreciate losing his license though. That should make you feel really righteous.

***

Actually, I'm the pilot... and I was using the term BASE to keep from writing "single parachute, single harness system" over and over. I know the FAA can pretty much screw me no matter what should they feel so inclined, but what FAR would I be breaking in this case? Let's say I own a plane that's legal to jump out of, communicate with the appropriate control agency (NOTAM, yada yada...), and drop someone with a BASE rig onto private property with permission. What FAR would I be breaking?

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

[AggieDave 6]

It has already been posted:

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AC105-2C further clarifies it for the implied meaning.

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A. Parachute Equipment. FAR Section 105.43 requires a parachutist making an intentional jump to wear a single harness dual pack parachute having at least one main parachute and one approved auxiliary/reserve parachute. The main pack need not be an approved type, but the auxiliary/reserve pack and the harness are required to be an FAA-approved type. The FAA issues a TSO which specifies the minimum performance standard for materials, parts, processes, or appliances used on civil aircraft. (See FAR Part 43, Appendix A(4). The following are examples of approved parachutes as explained in FAR Section 105.43(d).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,718]

>So if the BASE Rig is only capabale of holding a Main, it doesn'e meet the FAR.

The first skydiving rigs were single container designs with chestmount removable reserves. They are still quite legal.

[boyd38off 0]

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if FAR 105.43 is not clear enough for you on parachute requirements, AC105-2C further clarifies it for the implied meaning.

BUT is an AC an FAR? Here's the deal... I know that FAR 105.43 USED to require a single harness, dual parachute system. Now it does not. I think the AC was written based on the old FAR (somewhere around 2002). Anyone else smarter than me able to shed some light on the influence of an advisory circular? The AC clearly quotes the most current FAR 105.43.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out and shouting,
".... holy crap....what a ride!"

• Quote

[JerryBaumchen 1,260]

Hi boyd,

I, personally, have always believed that there is a slight 'opening' to make an intentional jump using just one canopy, one container & one harness with none of them being certificated.

It comes under the category of LIVE TESTS in the TSO documents. In PIA TS 135 at 4.3.11 LIVE TESTS it states ". . . For this test the standard harness may be altered to permit attachment of a certified reserve . . . "

All previous versions of the TSO standard have similar wording.

It does not require that you actually attach a certified reserve to the harness.

Given that, I feel that you could do so using the arguement that you are in the process of performing the tests for TSO certification.

Now, getting a DZO to let you do it; well that is a completely different situation.

JerryBaumchen