Giving Our Sport a "Black Eye"

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Who said anything about that being really funny?

I think it was you in your original post,before you pulled an edit.

I agree with you that most people could care less about what happens in this sport. I think however your attitude is getting in the way of your delivery. You come across as talking down to people. Some of these people were here before you and will be here when you are gone.

[superwoman8433 0]

Well put Ghost47. I just want to say ditto.

To Freeflymickey: Since you seem to have "everything" figured out, I am surprised that your profile isn't filled out......

[grimmie 173]

freeflymickey, put down the bong and go spread the word yourself.
There are many folks here that have a vested interest in the skydive world other than just looking cool in their gear and telling anyone that will listen that they are a jumper.
Anytime a demo goes bad, a fatality happens or a plane crashes it affects our sport. It may happen due to more regulation, less students, closing of a DZ etc.
Some day you might understand.

[freeflymickey 0]

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But bad press fuels the general perception of our sport as more dangerous than it really is, so that when people hear about skydiving, they have an automatic bad reaction based on what they've heard in the media.

Thats where I believe the misconception lies. Why is it bad press? If someone dies, someone died. It is what it is. Can the media skew their reports? Sure. The media does that with EVERYTHING, not just our precious sport.

There is no witch hunt being conducted against skydiving. There is no conspiracy. There is another world out there that makes its living reporting the good, the bad, and the bizarre.

I have never seen a report that has ever warned the public not to skydive because of an incident. I have never seen a report that blatantly made up lies with the purpose of preventing anybody from doing it. Sure they get their facts wrong, as mentioned above that is the nature of the beast when it comes to the news.

The paranoia in this sport is what I find absolutely hysterical. Unless you find a way to hide ALL INCIDENTS from the media, the reporting will never end. Until the skydiving community steps up and starts addressing this so called "black eye" problem by EDUCATING the general public it will continue to exist.

[ceandries 0]

and how do you suggest "educating the public?" I'm sure I'm not the only one who has tried but its harder than it sounds. No one listens either because they don't care or they already have preconceptions of the sport, which have been planted by the media.

[airtwardo 6]

The paranoia in this sport is what I find absolutely hysterical. Unless you find a way to hide ALL INCIDENTS from the media, the reporting will never end. Until the skydiving community steps up and starts addressing this so called "black eye" problem by EDUCATING the general public it will continue to exist.

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Who said it's funny?

You did, both in your 1st post then edited, and in this one.


You seem somewhat confused...that or you skipped 'how to make a logical argument' class.

~No one is trying to hide anything from the media, what the black eye comments are about, is a form of self-regulation.

Hopefully very few among our ranks want to be 'that guy' that's known for spotlighting negative events... usually caused by stupidity.

No one directly blames the media for reporting what they perceive to be the facts, we blame the jumper that brought the media out in the first place because they did something dumb, or because they did something egotistically shortsighted and illegal...which also brings the media out.

Skydivers commenting that so & so gave the sport a 'black eye' has absolutely nothing to do with the media reporting on such news events....


"what I find absolutely hysterical" as you put it, is that you can't seem to understand the connection.

Keep in mind that if someone tells ya that your actions are dangerous, or your reasoning is flawed, they might just be an asshole, but if a bunch of people tell you the same thing, might wanna take a closer look where that title is getting placed.


But it's all good, what I really love about the sport is, everyone is welcome...whether yer a rocket surgeon or can't pour piss out of a boot with the how-to instructions on the heel.

~ It all evens out in the end.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[LongWayToFall 0]

The biggest black eye would be the media not reporting on the sport at all, even if it was bad news. If some whuffo never hears the word skydive, then why would he just think it up one day and do it? The fact that people are dying means people are actually skydiving. The media reports even more about car and plane crashes, yet that will not prevent the average person from taking part in those activities.
The people that are most affected by injuries or fatalities, are the ones that see them first hand. You can bet if someone is at a demo and sees a jumper die, the chances of them going out for a tandem is going to be less. Just like seeing a fatal car crash, you would drive safer. Something about seeing the blood and guts and screaming changes you more than a newspaper article, does it not? Lots of people think "I'm going to be that guy".
No amount of education of the public is going to change anything, all we can rely on is the education of the media to provide an accurate account of the incident. "His chute did not open" makes it seem like only a gear related problem, and that there was nothing you could do. Like your car exploding while driving down the freeway. However, if it is better explained, "This jumper was using a high performance parachute, such as a race car driver uses a very fast car. He misjudged the timing of the landing, and impacted much too hard." Then it can be seen that it isn't the fault of the nature of skydiving, but of human error. The reader would then take it out of the "this could happen to me if I do a tandem" category

[wmw999 2,120]

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If someone dies, someone died. It is what it is. Can the media skew their reports? Sure. The media does that with EVERYTHING, not just our precious sport.

The thing is that some (many) people generalize to a class what they hear about a few representatives of that class.

Consider what some Americans think of Iraqis, of the French, of illegal aliens, or of African-americans. Consider what some skydivers think of whuffos, of old people wearing swimming suits in public, of freeflying, or of posting to dropzone.com.

If one assumes that a decent number of people don't know anything about your group, then you can pretty safely assume that they will generalize the actions of a few to the intentions of the whole. Human nature.

So, um honey -- let people think what they want to think, and you can be in charge of what you think. 'mkay?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Someone please explain in detail and provide factual information showing our sport suffering from any unfortunate incident that has taken place in the last 40 years.

I've jumped into city parks before. I even got to swoop a town fishing pond. While not the best place to swoop (there was a berm around the lake we had to fly over to get out) it was a lot of fun.

My wife thought I should skydive into our wedding in a city park, which would be an open field or level-1 demo according to the FAA. This would have been especially neat because our wedding was exactly 10 years and 10 days after my first jump.

Before that, a guy with insufficient classic accuracy experience and bad judgement with respect to winds did a stadium demo for the city's running event and landed on a spectator in the bleachers. Oops!

The city parks manager told us no.

That's a real life black eye.

[airtwardo 6]

Consider what some skydivers think of whuffos, of old people wearing swimming suits in public, of freeflying, or of posting to dropzone.com.



Ya forgot PACKERS!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[NickDG 23]

Wuffos, and how they perceive us never amazes me anymore. Once, at Lake Elsinore I was in the middle of teaching a first jump class of about 8 or 9 students. We were outside the classroom on our way to practice PLFs when a visiting jumper smoked a bag lock in right in front of us. I even pointed him out and said, "Look there, now watch this cutaway!" But he never did cutaway.

I sent the class away to meet back later and went off to deal with the fatality.

A couple of hours later we re-assembled and I said, "I'll understand if none on you feel like jumping today." But they wanted to know exactly what happened and after I explained it to them in detail they all wanted to continue on. Looking back on it I was more shaken up then any of them, even though I'd dealt with fatalities before. One of the students even said, "We're all right, Nick, are you all right?"

And then with a perfectly straight face one of the students asked, "What's up, doesn't this sort of thing happen all time?"

They all jumped later that day but it still leaves me shaking my head . . .

NickD

[freeflymickey 0]

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and how do you suggest "educating the public?" I'm sure I'm not the only one who has tried but its harder than it sounds

How have you tried? How about this, I for one have never seen a headline like this:

"Official Skydiving organization (USPA) responds to recent skydiving incident that took place at X place"

"Skydiving community works to educate public on the sports safety to address recent concerns over incident"

"Skydiving gear manufacturer issues press release to address concerns over skydiving safety"

"Skydivers unite to dispel myth that all skydivers are fuck ups, alcoholics, drug addicts, sex fiends and reckless assholes"

etc....

etc......

There are ways for organizations to get these messages out. Who within the skydiving community has attempted to ever do so? The media is a powerful tool, if a group allows them to constantly report without any rebuttal then that group has absolutely no reason to bitch about anything.

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No one listens either because they don't care or they already have preconceptions of the sport, which have been planted by the media.

Exactly. So whats the point in worrying about it?

[BillyVance 34]

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Before that, a guy with insufficient classic accuracy experience and bad judgement with respect to winds did a stadium demo for the city's running event and landed on a spectator in the bleachers. Oops!

The city parks manager told us no.

That's a real life black eye.

Another example: A botched demo into the Mississippi State - Alabama football game resulted in a broken leg, and subsequently a ban on all future demos into SEC (South Eastern Conference) events.

I had always wanted to do a demo into one of Alabama's football games. Had to settle for a UAB game in Conference USA, into the same stadium where Alabama used to play its marquee games, which only had about 20K people in a 80K seat stadium for the UAB game. Alabama routinely sold out the place for their games. The SEC is a higher profile conference, and arguably the top football conference in the nation. So, in a way, it was a black eye for the sport when the SEC banned demos.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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[airtwardo 6]

Exactly. So whats the point in worrying about it?

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Wait a minute...Y O U started the freakin' thread!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[tsalnukt 1]

I'm pretty sure that you've lost the plot.

what if we change the word....how about "blemish", bruise, charley horse, fat lip, or pink eye?

I care what the general public thinks about skydiving and when someone asks I will tell them all about it...good and bad...they always ask about the bad. You can't educate those that don't want to learn.

I don't know where you live but if you lived close or in a place that is popular for rock climbing, no doubt that you would hear about it on the news or in the paper and that news wouldn't travel very far outside of that area. They don't shut down the cliffs and do an investigation and the FAA doesn't get involved and unless they land on someone no one else is gonna get hurt.

If a demo into a public place goes bad it usually makes national or international news and it doesn't make skydivers look good at all. I don't think that it hurts the number of students that bad as it makes it harder and harder for skydivers to do things that we want to do. On hot days we used to jump into the beach on the lake a few miles from the DZ. Now "it's a liability issue". The guy only heard about someone getting hurt at a DZ in another state. I would say that bad press definately "tarnishes" our sport as we know it.

[DJL 232]

Cross Keys incident a few years ago when a skydiver bounced in the neighborhood in front of a couple of kids playing basketball. The jumper was drunk. The result was a couple of kids with a memory of something very very horrible. This is what could be called a black eye, to say the least; a lasting impression as to what happens and how safe we are.

On the flip side of that, a jumper from my old DZ landed out once near some kid's birthday party. He made a fun show of it and signed autographs. Fun, right? Now comare that with the first story.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[yarak 0]

I think I understand what you are saying freefly mickey. Skydiving is dangerous. ITs suppose to be! Thats how the general public wants to think of it. If it werent dangerous and "crazy" then no one would want to come out and do tandems or learn to skydive. its the overcoming of that danger that gives us the gratification we get from skydivng. If that danger didnt exist, then no one would give a crap about coming to learn to skydive. SO everytime the media highlights a skydiving accident, they are reinforcing this "appeal" to the thrill seeker types. The people that would never consider skydivng werent going to come out anyway.
At the same time it sucks when the bystanders get hurt. As far as seeing something "traumatic" at a demo. I dont buy that line of crap. Most of those people watching are actually hoping you will crash. Humans love carnage.

I dont think freeflymickey is wrong...I just think there is more than one way to look at this. No single action has only one effect. If you think of these incidents only as "blackeyes" then you are close minded. Try thinking of them as the reality of an inherantly dangerous sport And a reminder that it can happen to you! Because ultimately thats all they are.


I think Pennywise said it best "a body in the street is free publicity"

I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.

[DJL 232]

True. But I care more about keeping some kid from seeing a body explode on the ground in front of him than I do about free publicity. But most of these situations are nowhere near that bad and come closer to someone "burning" a demo because they screwed something up or were shown to be incompetent. In the long run it just makes more people dare each other to go on a tandem carnival ride.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[chuteless 1]

Some people say doing a chuteless jump gives the sport a black eye.

Some say making money in this sport gives the whole sport a black eye.

I think stupid things like nude jumps on a DZ gives the sport a black eye.

take your pick

[DJL 232]

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I think stupid things like nude jumps on a DZ gives the sport a black eye.

take your pick

Don't get your face so close to guys you're doing the nude jump with and this probably won't happen.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[BillyVance 34]

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I think stupid things like nude jumps on a DZ gives the sport a black eye.

take your pick

Don't get your face so close to guys you're doing the nude jump with and this probably won't happen.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[skybytch 259]

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Don't get your face so close to guys you're doing the nude jump with and this probably won't happen.

Unless you're a girl with D cups.

[zipplewrath 1]

Basically I would tend to agree with your larger sentiment. There is a knee jerk reaction that suggests that any and all incidents result in some tangible form of problem for the sport at large. The vast majority of incidents, other than being fodder for You Tube or the like, are a zero sum game. As many folks, maybe more, will be made aware that one can make a tandem, or a jump in general, and in many cases it spurs them into action to find their local DZ.

Demos are the reverse of that. There is little evidence that demos result in increased tandems unless there is a concerted effort at the demo to advertise the local DZ. DZ's around the country don't benefit. A demo that goes bad though makes nation wide (world wide sometime) news and can prevent other demos from happening. It can also be problematic for the DZ currently struggling with their local politicos. This is especially true for "bandit" jumps into otherwise public places.

The end result is what many of us frequently explain. The business and the sport have several points of collision in which their interests diverge and this is a obvious case. The sport in many ways benefits from bandit jumps and guys who push the edge. The business is frequently impeded by those same folks.

I would argue with the folks that try to claim that somehow the loss of tandem, or demos, or even AFF would somehow spell the end of skydiving. Big planes, big boogies, and skydiving all existed before any of these things came on the scene. Skydiving grew during a period when bandit jumps were practically part of the D license form. Jump planes had a casual relationship with the shipment of other goods, mostly during the week, at night. The first twin otters put into service were bought by some well to do skydivers who wanted faster planes to higher altitudes for their fun jumps. They made money with them by flying them to other DZ's for boogies which attracted fun jumpers. The sport doesn't need tandem.

So back to your basic point. The black eye of which you refer is predominately to the business side of skydiving. The sport rarely suffers from these incidents, and in many ways offers the more experienced jumpers opportunities to explain the finer points of safety to the up and comers. But if jumping for wuffos, or for a buck, are important to you, these incidents can be a constant problem.

[crashtested 0]

that was funny,

This sport is not dangerous, the people who say it is are just pissed off becasue there rock star persona never took off.

40 jumpers die out of a million skydives, i'll take those odds.

Now back in the day, when you old boys were using rounds, and hand deploying your reserves, that takes some bottle, and my hat is off to all of you.
"if it does not inflate pull it back in and throw it again"

Now that is rock and roll

-------------------------------------------------------

And the video is funny, seriously, at what point did he think comming over the bands head was a good idea..

Natural selection at work... if he can't land safely, and if the people can't run away in time, the gene pool gets stronger.

[Jumpah 0]

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This sport is not dangerous, the people who say it is are just pissed off becasue there rock star persona never took off.

40 jumpers die out of a million skydives, i'll take those odds.

I'm not sure if you are joking...

Include injuries in your numbers and it goes way up. Skydiving is dangerous, plain and simple.

Several people got hurt on this jump...one with a broken jaw....sipping their meals out of a straw for a few months. What can possibly be funny about that? Have a heart.