dreaming13000 1 #26 August 11, 2008 I have just recently had my first experience sitting by the door of an otter, opening it and all.... At first I was very intimidated and nervous, but I grew to enjoy it. I loved being able to watch the ground on our climb to altitude, not to mention waaaaay more room to breath (than being crammed up front), and as others have mentioned FIRST out if the shit hits the fan. Of course I kept a hold of that grab bar with a death grip probably more so than was required. "A man only gets in life what he is believing for, nothing more and nothing less" Kenneth Hagen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #27 August 11, 2008 No, seriously. It's weird how fear works. I can grab hold of the bar and hang on the outside of the plane, stick my head out of the door for a spot or whatever and that doesn't phase me a bit. It's when I'm sitting next to the door (especially on the floor) that freaks me the hell out. I've jumped out of the back of CASAs plenty of times, stood on the landing gear of a Cessna while spotting and getting ready to jump, etc. That's nothing. And the helicopter jump was excellent. None of it scares me much at all anymore. But yet, sitting next to the door, it just freaks me out. I'll tell you a little secret. Exiting while jumping with other people makes me nervous as hell. No clue why. I've always had good exits with people. Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poe62 0 #28 August 11, 2008 Stick your hands out the door with a stretched rubber band... ...I am amused easily. ~Nikki http://www.facebook.com/poe62 Irgity Dirgity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #29 August 11, 2008 Quote ... and then the pilot cranks a hard right hand turn....!!! YIKES!!!??????? well Not really.!!Don't the laws of physics cause the jumper to be pinned TO the floor, and NOT easily able to "fall Out" ? Coordinated turns where the aircraft is flying in the direction it's pointed (this is obviously more aerodynamically efficient than flying it sideways) mean the gravity vector is perpindicular to the floor just like it is on the ground. To help the pilot out there's a turn coordinator or other indicator with a little ball in a curved tube. You roll the aircraft and apply enough rudder to keep the ball centered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #30 August 11, 2008 "Falling out", well, that's not impossible, but kinda hard... unless one spends time pissing off the pilot and the pilot decides to give you a bunch of "pay back" by pushing a little bit of negative-g and kicking some rudder to float you out the door while you're taking a nap... ... ask Philly about that one. In theory though, you could be sitting on the floor next to an open door and the pilot could 1g roll the aircraft and you wouldn't fall out. As for opening the door at about a grand or two on those hot summer days to cool off. One thing I do first is a handles check on myself to make sure my shit is in order and a quick look of the folks around me near the door to make sure they look good and to give someone the chance to speak-up if they have an issue (i.e. open container) before I wip the door open at 1K no matter how much the tandem masters near the front of the plane are whining. I've been on many a C206 load in the middle of summer at Cal City where we never did close the door, all the way form taxi, takeoff through jump-run and exit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigbearfng 9 #31 August 11, 2008 A question about your SOP for the folk with door open from takeoff. Otter (and most other) SOP-Door closed and seatbelts on till 1000ft, then belts off and door open. If the doors open and a pilot chute goes out the door and I'm near enough I'm gonna give you a helping toss out the door if I can. And you need to take off the belts before the door goes up when you're near it or a lotta folk are gonna holler at you about takin the whole plane load down if the above happens never mind what would happen to you. So if you're taking off with door open are you or are you not wearing belts? Genuinely interested for your answers and rationale for your SOPs. edit:apoligies to the OP for thread drift..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #32 August 11, 2008 I'll take a stab at the second part first... Otters and King Airs... I've been to DZs where the SOP was the door stayed closed until 2K, but that seemed to be in writting only and jumpers were pulling the door open at around 1K. I've been to other DZs where the "door stays shut until 2K" SOP was strictly enforced. I routinely jumped at an Otter DZ where it was OKAY to crack the door at 1K on hot days, but if one pulled the door open more then a foot or two, the pilot got really pissed! I've also riden to altitute in Otters with the door open the whole way or without one installed at all. As for Cessnas, remember, most Cessnas are certified for flight without the door installed... given certain criteria are meet which I'll try to avoid here since discussion of the topic of FARs & STCs with respect to this gets really ugly around here. Anyway, the point being, the aircraft can be flown with the door not installed... in flight doors are not necessisairly "required." So, you ask about SOPs with respect to the door being open all the way from takeoff? You pose the question of riding in a plane with an open door... ya know what, think of it this way... "yes", open door + someone's pilot chute going out + them belted in = Really Bad... however... What if you were in that same plane that had to make a forced landing (a "crash" in lay-terms), would you rather have your seat-belt on or off? Pick your poison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreaming13000 1 #33 August 11, 2008 Quote No, seriously. It's weird how fear works. How true that is!? Skydiving is teaching me daily about how weird fear is. No problem jumping out of an airplane, but paddling a surfboard where I can't reach fear decends....even though I believe one day I will be able to catch a wave without going through a panic attack! Or spiders, social situations, fear of failure or ugly confrontations or even of some ugly truths.......scare the hell out of me, way more than jumping out of any airplane.....of course I am rather new to the sport, and "ignorance is bliss"....I have alot to learn. I guess fears dont' have to be rational "A man only gets in life what he is believing for, nothing more and nothing less" Kenneth Hagen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skittles_of_SDC 0 #34 August 11, 2008 haha, i always used to be afraid. I'm ok with it now. i still worry a little but not anything like i did that first time. the first time I had my seat belt on, hand on the door frame, and helmet on until they closed the door at 5 grand=4000 worth of pure fear of falling out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skittles_of_SDC 0 #35 August 11, 2008 probably repeating someone here but i kinda determined that for me personally the reason the thought of falling out freaks me out is because you don't control that. when it comes time to jump you are in complete control but if you fall out you dont have a choice. maybe you like to be in control of the situation and dont like the thought of not being able to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #36 August 11, 2008 QuoteDoesn't bother me....I want to be next to the door....if something goes wrong with the aircraft, I want to be the first out. I second this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
padu 0 #37 August 11, 2008 At my former home DZ, we had a couple planes (including an experimental cessna 195 turbine) with no door. I never had a problem with that, except the day we had to travel to another city and I had no parachute... that was scary.Una volta che avrete imparato a Volare, camminerete sulla terra guardando il cielo perchè è là che siete stati ed è là che vorrete tornare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #38 August 11, 2008 Quote To me this is funny. I love jumping and it really doesn't bother me too much anymore. Sure I'm afraid every time, but very calm and collected. The one thing that does scare the crap out of me is sitting on the floor of the plane, next to the door. Especially when they open the door and I'm sitting there scared to death that the pilot is going to turn and I'm going to fall out. And I hate it when I'm asked to open the door. Please don't do that. Anyone else with me on this? lol :) Tailgates are the only AC I have difficulty with... I'm afraid I'm gonna fall out or some knucklehead is gonna mess with me right when I'm opening the door.Whoops! *sigh* Here I am X miles out downwind and 2 miles up.But it's never happened...yet."Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
padu 0 #39 August 11, 2008 Quote Um, how was it you routinely jumped a plane with an Experimental designaiton? That's because it would never pass the brazilian aviation standards to leave the "experimental" status Quote And, again, not very "legal". I don't mean to be a buzz-kill, but if the reported rumors that the FAA does sometimes read these threads are true... ummm... just something we all might want to think about. just to be clear... not under FAA jurisdiction... and if someone asks me I will deny... actually, my dog is the one typing on the keyboard Una volta che avrete imparato a Volare, camminerete sulla terra guardando il cielo perchè è là che siete stati ed è là che vorrete tornare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #40 August 11, 2008 Quote actually, my dog is the one typing on the keyboard Bad dog! Don't skydive from experimental aircraft, NO! I've only managed to sit in the door twice & I really do like it. Having said that, I do wear my helmet so I'm ready to go up until the door closes (usually around 5-6k at my DZ). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #41 August 11, 2008 Quote Bad dog! Don't skydive from experimental aircraft, NO! Didn't Snoopy bail out of his Dog House - Sopwith Camel on several occasions??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VideoFly 0 #42 August 11, 2008 I recently watched a fairly new jumper try to impress us on the plane by hanging a leg out of the door while climbing to altitude. When he stuck the other leg out his body got whipped around so he was on his belly with the lower half of his body out the door. He reached for anything, but there was nothing to grab onto. Two other jumpers grabbed his arms and quickly pulled him in. With his eyeballs bulging, the look on his face was priceless. It was a Kodak moment that I hope he won’t forget. Over several years, we’ve also had two people lose their helmets out of an open door because they got careless letting them roll around unattended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keithbar 1 #43 August 12, 2008 been reading this thread. and sitting next to an open door with my belt off above 1,000 doesn't bother me at all but since no one mentioned skyvans. everyone allways says. " let the big guy help with the door" I allways think to myself " SHIT!" lifting that sucker and getting it latched is allways a bitch. it's not that I'm scared of falling out. hell it's exit altitude and i've got a rig. but I don't want to end up doing a solo. and now a days the rule that " if someone falls off the plane on climbout everyone FUCKING GO!" doesn't seem to hold truei have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #44 August 12, 2008 Quote ...lifting that sucker and getting it latched is allways a bitch... You're right. Its the rest of those ass-clowns towards the front of the airplane that always shout such helpful advise when you're having trouble getting the door on a SkyVan up add latched when the light goes on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #45 August 12, 2008 Quote Quote ...lifting that sucker and getting it latched is allways a bitch... You're right. Its the rest of those ass-clowns towards the front of the airplane that always shout such helpful advise when you're having trouble getting the door on a SkyVan up add latched when the light goes on. Haha, yes those fuckers. You know, I hate to admit it, but I'm weak. I'm not very strong and getting that door open on the Otter isn't easy for me so I hate being motioned to open the door, because it's embarassing. But yes, like someone said it may be that fear of not being in control if you happen to fall out or something. Then I could be that guy with half his body hanging out of the airplane. Haha. If that happened I think I wouldn't show my face on the DZ for 6 months out of embarassment.Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VideoFly 0 #46 August 12, 2008 Come to think of it, that was a few months ago and I haven’t seen him since. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #47 August 12, 2008 I recently experienced this with a jumper who was seated on the floor while I was on the bench. I had no idea she was scared and I did not believe her when she told me and I just thought she was joking. Next time I will let her sit on the bench and I will hold on to her legs! After all it is only fair! "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voltage 0 #48 August 12, 2008 I wonder why no one has mentioned that joke that you can pull off with "door fear". Just get yourself a tandem jumpsuit and a nice student-looking helmet and make a fuss in the door NOOOO I NOT WANNA JUMP Then have your friend push you out while you scream as if you are going to die. The tandem students LOVE IT On the serious side: please keep the door closed at least until 1000 ft, better 1500 ft. I'm not very long in this sport but I have seen some loose pins and loose pilot chutes. Another reason are seatbelts. I'd hate to die in a freak airplane accident. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #49 August 12, 2008 The jumpers on your DZ are clearly just not gassy enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #50 August 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteI want to be next to the door....if something goes wrong with the aircraft, I want to be the first out. I second this. You second being first? Who is on third? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
