Off DZ Jumps Legalities?

[kalaniwavo 0]

Ok, so theoretically speaking.. my family lives in the middle of no where in North Carolina on a couple acres of land with a field bigger than my home DZ. A couple miles away is a small airport, mainly occupied by old geezers who like to tool around in their cessna's on the weekends.

I've read the FARAIM and of course this is not legal, but really... If I talked local Joe Schmo into kicking me out of his plane and landing on my familys property what kind of issues am I facing?

Who's done this? If the local police showed up can you be sighted for anything or are the police obligated to report the incident to the FAA? I'm pretty sure the pilots licence would be in jeopardy but what about the skydivers licence?

Just a thought... and I wanted to see what everyone's take was on this. I'm SURE I'm not the first to dream this idea up!

Nick

[Peej 0]

Yeah it has been discussed a lot before, you're new here so can be forgiven for not searching. The search string you are looking for is "bandit jumps".

Here are the results, lots of reading for you

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=bandit%20jumps&sb=score&mh=25

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Providing there are no airspace restrictions all you need is the land owners permission to land on a property and to inform ATC 2 min prior. Excluding jumps into highly populated areas. Where in the FARs did you find this to not be legal?

I would say your biggest problem is going to be finding one of the "old geezers" to fly you. This would also be the more dangerous part of your plan, climbing out of a plane with a pilot that has never flown jumpers.

Do a search. There are alot of threads about this.

It would however be a good idea to inform the local police. They will probably want to come out and watch. This is also not taking into consideration your experience level or lack of. I'll let someone else take that one.

[MarkM 0]

I thought all you needed was the land owners permission and for the pilot to file a NoTAM, so long as you weren't doing a demonstration jump.

But there's always the "OMG, I fell out of the airplane, thank God I was wearing a parachute" defense.

[Fast 0]

Quote

I thought all you needed was the land owners permission and for the pilot to file a NoTAM, so long as you weren't doing a demonstration jump.

But there's always the "OMG, I fell out of the airplane, thank God I was wearing a parachute" defense.

You also need an airplane that is certified for flight w/o the door on or with the door open in flight. That might be a little harder to come by. If you don't have the appropriate airplane then you are not operating within the FARs.

As for jumping into "non-dropzones" with the proper plane, it's done all the time. As long as it isn't for the benefit of spectators and over a highly populated area it won't count as a demo and you can avoid all the rules regarding demos. (or really, if there are spectators there at all, they could claim it was a demo!)

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[lawrocket 3]

My thoughts are you probably have less to worry about than the pilot.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[NickDG 23]

>>Just a thought... and I wanted to see what everyone's take was on this. I'm SURE I'm not the first to dream this idea up!

Nick
Cool, another "Nick."

As long as you, or your family, owns the land. and it's not "over an open air assembly of people" and you file a notice to airmen (a NOTAM) and you aren't in any kind of controlled airspace, you don't need a demo waiver.

The pilot would still be subject to Part 105 of the FARs, except if you didn't pay him, or chip in for gas, he wouldn't need a commercial ticket. But you can't be drinking or sucking on a big blunt going out the door.

Other than that, go for it, as long as you know what you're doing . . .

NickD

[itllclear 1]

Quote

as long as you know what you're doing

And there's lies the big issue.

Jumping in an unfamiliar DZ, not sure of the altitude difference between the DZ and the airport from which you take off, how to spot, setting up wind indicators, exiting that type airplane, best exit speed (too fast, you can't open the door; too slow stall and spin in) etc., etc.

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[hackish 8]

I've heard of jumpers getting out of a 172, they sideslipped the AC a little and just pushed the door open. To me I think the jumper made it sound a little easier than it really was but I know it's been done.

-Michael

[itllclear 1]

Quote

I think the jumper made it sound a little easier than it really was

And the "Incidents" forum is filled with examples of people who didn't realize that.

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[hackish 8]

My little sister just called to ask if I could skydive into her wedding carrying the rings. My little sister is such a wuffo... 991 more jumps to my EJR :)

-Michael

[brettski74 0]

You may want to go and re-check your PIM 1. An exhibition jump rating requires less than 1000 jumps, but you still have a few years to wait, I'd imagine.

[Broke 0]

Anything is possible with the proper paperwork.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[CSpenceFLY 1]

What paperwork?

[chuckbrown 0]

Properly complete a Waiver/Certificate of Authorization (Form 7711-1) and submit it to your local FSDO. If they approve it, you should be good to go (I'm assuming you'll have the proper credentials for the proposed landing site). Just make sure your pilot files a NOTAM so all those old geezers don't ruin your (and their) day.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

You don't need a waiver to jump into private property.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

You don't need a waiver to jump into private property.

That would depend on the air space you will be jumping in and the mood of the local FSDO at the time. Some FSDO’s I have dealt with require a waiver on any off dz jump in their area.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Yes there is always a depends, I was talking about this instance. He stated the property was in the middle of no where.

FSDO can not require something that is not required. They might like you to think they can but they can't.

[chuckbrown 0]

Even where I know that I don't need a certificate/waiver, I ask for one just to let the FAA know we take our activity seriously. It promotes a good relationship with the local FSDO & you never know when you'll need a favor from them.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I agree if you are into doing demo jumps. Politics is politics. This guy is not. He simple wants to jump into some private property.

[JSBIRD 1]

When you find an old geezer to fly you for your jump onto the homestead, be sure you have a parachute for him as well.

If while climbing out of an aircraft not regularly configured for jumps, you manage to snag a handle, have a premature deployment and damage the aircraft to the point it is no longer flyabale, how would you feel watching that good old boy plummet to his death on your nickle?

If he has a bail out rig, needs it but doesn't use it, that's a whole different critter.

BASE359

"Now I've settled down,
in a quiet little town,
and forgot about everything"

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

I've heard of jumpers getting out of a 172, they sideslipped the AC a little and just pushed the door open. To me I think the jumper made it sound a little easier than it really was but I know it's been done.

-Michael

It's like taking a leak wearing boxing gloves...

May sound difficult but if yer motivated, not hard to do at all.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[ryoder 1,381]

Quote

I've heard of jumpers getting out of a 172, they sideslipped the AC a little and just pushed the door open. To me I think the jumper made it sound a little easier than it really was but I know it's been done.

-Michael

I did a demo jump that way, once. You slip the a/c a LOT, then with trailing edge of the door in your left hand, that the rear door frame in your right hand, you give a mighty heave to push them apart, and bomb out toward the tail pulling your knees up to your chin to get your ankles out of the door before it slams shut on them.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.