BPA renewal doubts

[RossDagley 0]

Since I started umping I've been a member of both the BPA and the USPA. The BPA membership is currently £160 ($300) annually, whilst the USPA membership is still $55 (£30).

Last year i half joked I'd not renew my BPA membership because of the increasing costs and less than frequent jumps I make here. Several people I know did the same thing last year. It's just not cost effective for me. I'm guessing the BPA membership will go up again this year (it's already £160, or to put it another way, $300, or 4 return trips to Spain...).

Ths cost of jumping in the UK (on average, £20 a jump, compaired to 20 euros a jump in Spain), the weather (need I say more), and the price of the BPA membership are conspiring against me.

Hell - two years worth of BPA membership gets me a lifetime USPA membership. A minimum of 4 trips a year to Spain, where in one weekend I can get in the same number of jumps that would take me a month to do in the UK, pretty much perfect weather year round in Spain...

Maybe I don't have the mindset. Maybe I'm not looking at it from the right perspective. Perhaps I *should* pay through the nose to do a few shitty jumps a year in the UK to be "part of the sport" - personally I'd rather spend the money jumping. In the sun.

/Ross gets off his soapbox. Whinge over.

[tdog 0]

At those prices, I would go to Spain too....

(Granted, if I could get a bunch of fun jumps near home I would pay the money, but if your jumps near home are not good, then, you have a good point.)

I would make sure you tell the DZO and BPA why you are not giving them your business. But I am guessing you already did that here.

[BillyVance 34]

Just curious, will dropzones in the UK let you jump with a USPA membership? This is just an off-the-cuff question without doing the research. I see in Parachutist that there are no DZs in England that are USPA Group members, but there is one in Ireland. Spain has 5 DZs listed, so I guess your best bet is tell BPA to go to hell, then get a USPA membership and travel to Spain every other month to skydive or whatever your budget allows.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Remster 24]

A lot of people get memberships for the insurance they carry.

Remember: most of the membership insurance only cover you if you are a resident of that contry.

For example, I have CSPA and USPA membership, but since I now live in the US, the CSPA 3rd party insurance would not cover me if I damaged a truck on landing, no matter where it happened (even in Canada).

You may want to check with the USPA coverage.

Remster

[jakee 1,254]

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Just curious, will dropzones in the UK let you jump with a USPA membership? This is just an off-the-cuff question without doing the research.

No. Everyone except the Germans needs BPA membership (you can get 1 month temp) to jump in the UK.

For some reason it makes sense to the BPA that while we expect our membership and insurance to be accepted worldwide, Johnny Foreigner must pay for the right to jump in our country - regardless of what liability insurance they already carry.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skytash 0]

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No. Everyone except the Germans needs BPA membership (you can get 1 month temp) to jump in the UK.

For some reason it makes sense to the BPA that while we expect our membership and insurance to be accepted worldwide, Johnny Foreigner must pay for the right to jump in our country - regardless of what liability insurance they already carry.

I think it's not just Germans its people who have insurance written in a EU country. It just so happens that it was a BPA dropzone on UK military land in Germany who instigated this change. I think one of the reasons why insurance of others isn't valid has nothing to do with the BPA, but with reciprocity agreements between different insurance jurisdictions. If you tried to claim on say USPA insurance for an accident in the UK, I don't think they'd pay out. And the CAA requires everyone in the UK to have insurance, it may just be that the FAA in the US doesn't.

I don't know all the ins and outs, but I know that at last year's AGM there was a forum run by the insurance committee of the BPA which satisfied me that the insurance cover we have is as good as it's going to be unless we convince other air-sports to join in with us. The BPA's broker also represents some of them and they have exactly the same problems as we do. Some have higher premiums, so we we joined up with them we'd pay even more. Others have lower premiums and they are not in the slightest interested in increasing their premiums to help bring ours down.

If you want a lesson on how insurance works, I'll try to put something together and perhaps post it as an article. I'm not an actuary, but work in insurance so can hopefully explain how insurance works in lay-mens terms.

tash

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I think one of the reasons why insurance of others isn't valid has nothing to do with the BPA, but with reciprocity agreements between different insurance jurisdictions. If you tried to claim on say USPA insurance for an accident in the UK, I don't think they'd pay out. And the CAA requires everyone in the UK to have insurance, it may just be that the FAA in the US doesn't.

That is not quite accurate. USPA insurance covers US residents worldwide, and all others within the US only, but (here's the kicker) the legal action must be filed in the US.
CSPA covers Canadian residents worldwide with no such proviso; the small number of Canadian jumpers that might jump in UK means that there is no push to change anything. It would be interesting to examine the Aus, S.A. and NZ to see what their insurance agreements actually say.
One thing about Canada. We happily accept BPA from the British, or USPA from the Yanks, but will not accept USPA from a Brit.

[skytash 0]

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but (here's the kicker) the legal action must be filed in the US.

that may be why the USPA cover for Yanks isn't deemed acceptable to the requirements the CAA sets.

tash

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

[ps5601 0]

I also thought (and I may be wrong here) that the level and type of cover offered by most other groups (ie USPA etc) is insufficient for the UK. ie a few hundred thousand dollars for USPA or other European agencies and/or not covering enough eventualities for the liking of the CAA.

Many years ago you were allowed to jump in the UK with insurance from a foreign agency (even to set up a DZ) but that loophole was closed many years back.

To the OP, while Empuria will let you jump there with just USPA, you may find that as a non US resident you are not actually insured. Yes the price for BPA membership is very high (and the vast majority of that is because of the insurance), but if you are living in the UK that is the price to pay. Also, there are quite a few half decent DZs in the UK with quite a lot of quality jumps happening. You won't find the turn around or number of things happening that you see in Empuria - but then again it is the bussiest DZ in the world (yes, even more jumps per year than Eloy)

Blue skies

Paul

[DSE 3]

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No. Everyone except the Germans needs BPA membership (you can get 1 month temp) to jump in the UK.

So if I visit the UK to jump, I have to purchase a BPA membership for $300.00 in order to jump?

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[Kell.nl 0]

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No. Everyone except the Germans needs BPA membership (you can get 1 month temp) to jump in the UK.

So if I visit the UK to jump, I have to purchase a BPA membership for $300.00 in order to jump?

In the text you quote it says it is possible to get a 1 month temp membership. I doubt that will be $300.00

[cpoxon 0]

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No. Everyone except the Germans needs BPA membership (you can get 1 month temp) to jump in the UK.

So if I visit the UK to jump, I have to purchase a BPA membership for $300.00 in order to jump?

In the text you quote it says it is possible to get a 1 month temp membership. I doubt that will be $300.00

Correct. Currently £30.95 (although due to be reset on saturday). So about $60.

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[mr2mk1g 10]

And for your money you get $4,000,000 of third party cover... within the UK. Overseas the cover's reduced (can't remember to what off the top of my head) and the US is excluded altogether.

[topper 0]

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I did search and couldn't find what I was looking for.

I've not jumped for 18 months+ and am planning to go to spain to do some recurrency training and jumps and then also do my FS1.

Do I need BPA membership to do this? and do I need it for my FS1 to be valid?

Thanks
Chris

[stayhigh 2]

if i have to pay 300 dollar anually, i would look for a loop hole to abuse the BPA system...
my THIRD party will have something to claim every year..

and does BPA come with health insurance as well???

and do you have to be millionaire to jump at UK??

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[RossDagley 0]

Talking about Lillo as I can't vouch for other Spanish DZ's as I dont jump elsewhere.

You do not need BPA membership to jump in Spain, but if you have it, it is accepted (you do need SOME membership) - USPA/BPA are both accepted.

Regarding the FS1 - there are a few ways you can achieve this. For one, you can complete the jumps, and show the video to a CCI at a British DZ and he may simply sign it off. Alternatively your chosen spanish DZ might have a British registered FF coach available who can sign you off there, with just the CCI's sticker needed back home.

I think Skydive Spain have ties with the BPA - it for sure might be worth giving them a call and seeing how they handle it there.

Good luck

[RMK 3]

I agree and 2008 may be the last year I pay the BPA membership also. Which is sad as there are some very good drop zones in the UK, It is just that I’m used to paying double for everything in the UK but quadruple is taking the piss? Two notes:

1. I can agree w/ the BPA requiring jumpers to be insured, but why not individually. I annually pay £400 for global travel insurance that covers skydiving and nearly everything sans strapping a rocket to my back “Wile E. Coyote style”. I call the BPA and ask if I can decline the insurance on proof of existing cover – answer was NO
2. By coincidence, I was previously a director for a division of a global banking/insurance group and personally knew someone on the insurance side who could have helped the BPA out. I call the BPA office to make an introduction or get a direct contact and am treated as if I’m wasting their time. Which is shit as this was taking my own time to do them favour, I was responsible for an entirely different area of the company.

No disrespect to anyone on this forum who works for the Lloyds Syndicate or Underwriting, but this is the sole and last bastion of ineptitude in the UK financial industry. This “take what the brokers give us” followed by the BPA is ruinous.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[Dazzle 0]

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if i have to pay 300 dollar anually, i would look for a loop hole to abuse the BPA system...
my THIRD party will have something to claim every year..

and does BPA come with health insurance as well???

and do you have to be millionaire to jump at UK??

Different country different rules. The waivers that are used in the US to restrict liability don't work in the UK. Here you cannot waive your right to sue, and thus to be sued by someone else if you make a mistake. So if for example, I were to screw up under canopy, hit someone and hurt them, there is nothing to prevent them from sueing me. I have house etc that I don't want to lose so I have insurance to protect that. Without insurance a lawyer looking for compensation will target others who may have money available, eg the DZ. BPA choose to go with a collective insurance for a number of reasons, all of which are being actively looked at because of the premium charged.

We have health insurance included in our (much higher) taxes (for better or worse)

[cpoxon 0]

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2. By coincidence, I was previously a director for a division of a global banking/insurance group and personally knew someone on the insurance side who could have helped the BPA out. I call the BPA office to make an introduction or get a direct contact and am treated as if I’m wasting their time. Which is shit as this was taking my own time to do them favour, I was responsible for an entirely different area of the company.

Hi RMK,

I can't really speak on behalf of the BPA and I'm sorry if you feel that you've been treated that way but I doubt any direspect was intended. From my experience the BPA, who have done a lot of work with insurance companies, believe that there are very few underwriters when it comes to aviation insurance and quite often they are told about new brokers who may be able to help but in the end it comes down to the same few syndicates and rarely makes much difference.

Having said that, I'm the Chairman of the Development sub-committee of the British Parachute Association and as such, Insurance comes under my remit. I would be very interested in the details that you could supply so that they may be investigated.

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No disrespect to anyone on this forum who works for the Lloyds Syndicate or Underwriting, but this is the sole and last bastion of ineptitude in the UK financial industry. This “take what the brokers give us” followed by the BPA is ruinous.

Open to suggestions!

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[skytash 0]

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Sorry to drag up an old thread but I did search and couldn't find what I was looking for.

I've not jumped for 18 months+ and am planning to go to spain to do some recurrency training and jumps and then also do my FS1.

Do I need BPA membership to do this? and do I need it for my FS1 to be valid?

Thanks
Chris

Going back to the post that revived the thread, I'm wondering why you are looking to get your FS1 without BPA membership. When I was jumping in Germany or South Africa, nobody even knew what an FS1 was let alone cared about whether I had it.

If you are jumping outside the UK, why bother with a sticker that few outside the UK understand? If someone is insisting on it (eg a Spanish/US dropzone) surely a logbook with the experience is enough as that is what their local jumpers would be presenting not being able to get an FS1 sticker from their local association?

tash

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

[RMK 3]

This was during 2006. However, I left the company at the end of the year so don't have the influence to assist as I did then. However, this was an organisation that can and does do large scale insurance for activities such as skydiving.

I'm certain this was due to other people at that time, but do have your staff alert to members that can help, We're not all skint twentysomethings on the membership roll. Good job that you noticed and replied to this post, however in the past I made a several calls over about three days and gave up.

Like a lot of people, I'm very much pro skydiving but not necessarily pro British skydiving.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"