Another demo "Oops?"

[DSE 3]

http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080907/NEWS/80907011
HAMPTON — Fred Cotreau has been skydiving for 18 years, but Sunday afternoon was the first time he ever had an unintentional water landing.

Cotreau, 43, was one of 11 who jumped out of an airplane from 14,000 feet as part of the Skydive New England Demonstration during the 19th annual Hampton Beach Seafood Festival.
And while he was supposed to land on the sand with the other skydivers, he instead landed in the ocean, a half-mile away from the shore.

The crowd watched in suspense as Hampton Beach lifeguards swam out to make sure he was OK. When the guards returned with Cotreau 20 minutes later, everyone began to cheer.

“My plan was to land where everyone else landed,” Cotreau said.
Cotreau, who is the co-owner of Skydive New England, said he realized there was a problem as soon as he jumped out of the airplane.

“I knew I wasn’t going to make it, and I used my safety training and prepared for a water landing,” Cotreau said.

Cotreau said the parachute doubled in weight in the water and that’s why he needed the help from the guards to get back to the shore.

“When I hit the water, my plan was to start swimming home and to the nearest bar,” Coutreau said.

[quade 3]

Exited at 14k. Realized there was a problem "as soon as he jumped out of the plane." 10 people make the landing area and one lands 1/2 mile away?

I'd LOVE to hear the rest of this story. Something is screwy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gawain 0]

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Exited at 14k. Realized there was a problem "as soon as he jumped out of the plane." 10 people make the landing area and one lands 1/2 mile away?

I'd LOVE to hear the rest of this story. Something is screwy.

Yes. There must be video somewhere.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[jimmytavino 16]

beach demo....

at 14 grand???

areas close to water can be notorious for having winds, ( think offshore breeze) which are different than what may be happening at the DZ ,, further inland from shore...
i thought the remnants of hanna, hit the New england area on sunday??? ,, but maybe THAT all blew through, saturday night...

i'd be real careful about beach demos...
especially if my reserve repack is recent...
a mandatory re pack after a water soaking...
will add to the cost of the dive...

glad everything worked out OK..

did the jumper get OUT of his gear...upon 'touchdown'???
were inflation devices worn??
By EVERYone???
were any arrangements made for "pick -up Boats"?? Sounds like the 'rescue' was done by lifeguards, who "just happened to be nearby"..????

"in the ocean, 1/2 mile away???"

yikes.

any word about how good the Seafood was??? did they have lobster!????

jmy

[jtval 0]

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I'd LOVE to hear the rest of this story. Something is screwy.

Does being full of shit mean something is screwy?
If he had been jumping for 14 years and he knew something was wrong on exit you KNOW he could have made a correction and landed with EVERYONE else.

I think he's just trying to save face. Of course, it looks like jumping is all guess work to those who read this article.

Co-owner if the DZ and that's the example he sets.

My photos

My Videos

[hackish 8]

Maybe he opened higher than the others and the winds were pushing him backwards. Maybe he's 80lbs lighter and wasn't getting any penetration. Maybe he's flying a significantly different canopy than the others. I can think of a few legit explanations.

-Michael

[DSE 3]

http://www.skydivenewengland.com/bAboutUs.html

He sure doesn't look light.
He's a PRO.
Coupla thousand skydives.
Wingloading 3 years ago of 1.3, so unless the winds were too high to safely jump, he should have had penetration.
Maybe he forgot to unbuckle his seatbelt and lost time dealing w/it and lost the spot? Maybe wife called on cell? Maybe, maybe, maybe.
Bottom line is, a skydiver looks bad in the national news (was on CNN last night) and was at serious risk of drowning (assuming he had no flotation device).
This doesn't look like "half a mile out"
There is no legit explanation I can think of for a PRO rated skydiver missing the target by half a mile when every one else on the load made it to the landing area.
But...if you've got " legit explanations," I'd like to hear one.
I'm glad it turned out to be a non-incident, however.

[JohnRich 4]

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This doesn't look like "half a mile out"

You're making an assumption about when that picture was taken which is probably incorrect.

That was most likely taken after the lifeguards had towed him back to shore through the breakers. At that point, he walked back in the last few yards through the water. And that's when he was "high-fiving" his saviors. That's what it looks like to me.

[chaosreins 0]

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Exited at 14k. Realized there was a problem "as soon as he jumped out of the plane." 10 people make the landing area and one lands 1/2 mile away?

I'd LOVE to hear the rest of this story. Something is screwy.

one thing screwy with the story is that none of the jumpers exited anywhere near 14k. (i was there.)while i don't have the experience to judge with much accuracy the height of an otter while looking up from the ground, i would pretty safely say it was no higher than 5-6k when that group left the plane.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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one thing screwy with the story is that none of the jumpers exited anywhere near 14k. (i was there.)while i don't have the experience to judge with much accuracy the height of an otter while looking up from the ground, i would pretty safely say it was no higher than 5-6k when that group left the plane.

Which way was jump run?
parallel to the shoreline or out to sea (offshore) or onshore or something in-between?
What were the ground winds doing?

Was it just one group or several groups?

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[chaosreins 0]

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Which way was jump run?
parallel to the shoreline or out to sea (offshore) or onshore or something in-between?
What were the ground winds doing?

Was it just one group or several groups?

.

honestly not sure about jump run. there were several groups, including a 3-person crew jump and a solo jumper dressed in a lobster costume (it was the annual seafood festival, after all). i was snapping photos and not paying close attention to the direction of jump run.

the first two groups - lobsterman and the crew guys - did exit further upwind (and inland) of the water, while the last group exited closer to the beach - even with separate passes for each group. i remember thinking "how are they going to get back to the beach?" when the last group exited.

[edited to add: winds were blowing out towards the water]

i'd estimate steady ground winds at 15-20 mph. we were experiencing the remnants of tropical storm hannah and winds were strong all day. rumor has it that a few of the planned jumpers decided not to participate because of that.

[BillyVance 34]

I remember one beach jump I was on out of a C-182 from Gold Coast over a decade ago. I didn't spot it, one of the staff jumpers did, and I noticed we were pretty far off the coast at 10K, though the winds WERE coming in off the water. I assumed the winds were strong enough for us to float over in freefall. By 6,000 feet, I decided that wasn't happening as much as I wanted it to, and dumped my main, and headed directly north. Got feet dry just high enough to make a 90 degree turn for landing parallel with the beach.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[DSE 3]

Follow up to the original story...
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080908/GJNEWS_01/709089935/-1/FOSNEWS

HAMPTON — Thousands of eyes looked to the skies Sunday afternoon as the 19th annual Hampton Beach Seafood Festival officially came to an end with seven professional skydivers making landings before a busy crowd scattered along the strip.

The landing proved difficult for one skydiver, who instead of making a clean landing on the beach, ended up far offshore in the middle of the pounding surf.

"It was my first unintentional landing like that," said Fred Cotreau, co-owner of Skydive New England.

He said the wind proved to be much more of a factor than he had anticipated, and within minutes of opening his chute, he knew he was going for a swim.

"The wind dragged me out further over the water than I expected," said the 18-year skydiving professional.

Seconds after landing in the water, he said, he made sure to detach himself from his parachute and wait for the lifeguards who were swimming toward him. Within minutes, the lifeguards pulled Cotreau to shore, and the thousands huddled on the beach applauded.

The festival, a three-day event, featured nearly 50 Seacoast restaurants serving seafood and other dishes. About 80 craft vendors were on hand as well, showcasing locally made products.

More than 100,000 people showed up the event, according to Jude David, committee chairman.

David said even though weather put a damper on things on Saturday, seafood lovers turned out in force Friday and Sunday.

"Friday was our best ever," she said. "It was the best Sunday we've seen as well."

Those in attendance had their choice of freshly made lobster rolls, shrimp and lobster stew, as well as non-seafood choices such as barbecued ribs, sweet potato fries and a variety of desserts.

Carolyn Coppola of Haverhill brought her two children, Kara, 5, and Tommy, 8, to the festival for the first time. She said she attended last year's festival with friends and made sure to bring her children with her this year.

"It's really overwhelming how many people are here,"she said. "But it's still a lot of fun for me and my family."

##################
Based on this story vs the original, he didn't realize "as soon as he got out of the plane" but rather, when he deployed.
Makes more sense now, doesn't it? Still gotta wonder what delayed him vs the other sticks.

[airtwardo 6]

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This doesn't look like "half a mile out"

You're making an assumption about when that picture was taken which is probably incorrect.

That was most likely taken after the lifeguards had towed him back to shore through the breakers. At that point, he walked back in the last few yards through the water. And that's when he was "high-fiving" his saviors. That's what it looks like to me.

Either way...he's still wearing his rig, though I don't see the main.

Not quite the emergency water landing procedure I would use.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JohnRich 4]

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Either way...he's still wearing his rig, though I don't see the main. Not quite the emergency water landing procedure I would use.

Yeah, I noticed that too, One of the stories said that he cut-away the main, so that's probably lost. He may have kept the rig on for some buoyancy from the reserve, until it would get saturated and start getting heavy. And perhaps the lifeguards got there before that happened, so he was okay with keeping it.

[airtwardo 6]

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Either way...he's still wearing his rig, though I don't see the main. Not quite the emergency water landing procedure I would use.

Yeah, I noticed that too, One of the stories said that he cut-away the main, so that's probably lost. He may have kept the rig on for some buoyancy from the reserve, until it would get saturated and start getting heavy. And perhaps the lifeguards got there before that happened, so he was okay with keeping it.

I'd keep it too...I would just have it off and in front of me in case it started heading for the bottom.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[NickDG 23]

At least he's alive. There was a DC-3 demo load in Del Mar, California some years ago and the last few out came up short of the beach. One guy found himself coming down into the surf line and worried (probably) about getting tangled up with his main in the big waves so he cutaway above the water.

He cutaway low enough so the water entry shouldn't have been a big deal but his reserve popped up when he hit the water and broke his neck as cleanly as a well done hanging.

Now when I see people doing low cutaways like that for fun over a lake or something I cringe a little bit . . .

(Note to "nervous guy" - don't worry I'm just making this up).

NickD

[airtwardo 6]

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At least he's alive. There was a DC-3 demo load in Del Mar, California some years ago and the last few out came up short of the beach. One guy found himself coming down into the surf line and worried (probably) about getting tangled up with his main in the big waves so he cutaway above the water.

He cutaway low enough so the water entry shouldn't have been a big deal but his reserve popped up when he hit the water and broke his neck as cleanly as a well done hanging.

NickD

I remember.

There were a lotta bad decisions on that one, the chain of disaster was / should have been obvious.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[BillyVance 34]

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At least he's alive. There was a DC-3 demo load in Del Mar, California some years ago and the last few out came up short of the beach. One guy found himself coming down into the surf line and worried (probably) about getting tangled up with his main in the big waves so he cutaway above the water.

He cutaway low enough so the water entry shouldn't have been a big deal but his reserve popped up when he hit the water and broke his neck as cleanly as a well done hanging.

NickD

I remember.

There were a lotta bad decisions on that one, the chain of disaster was / should have been obvious.

I think I remember reading about a demo gone wrong in the Knoxville, TN area. One guy was doing a water jump into the Tennessee River and decided to cut-away and go splash. Only he cut-away a tad too high and tore his aorta on impact with the water.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[mpuettman 0]

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At least he's alive. There was a DC-3 demo load in Del Mar, California some years ago and the last few out came up short of the beach. One guy found himself coming down into the surf line and worried (probably) about getting tangled up with his main in the big waves so he cutaway above the water.

He cutaway low enough so the water entry shouldn't have been a big deal but his reserve popped up when he hit the water and broke his neck as cleanly as a well done hanging.

NickD

I remember.

There were a lotta bad decisions on that one, the chain of disaster was / should have been obvious.

I think I remember reading about a demo gone wrong in the Knoxville, TN area. One guy was doing a water jump into the Tennessee River and decided to cut-away and go splash. Only he cut-away a tad too high and tore his aorta on impact with the water.

I was on that demo jump in Knoxville (10 of us jumped) and I was the last one to be picked up out of the water. They (the TRWA) told me that they would be back to pick me up in a few minutes. I didn't know what was going on at the time, but they wanted to deal with the incident first, so I remained in the water for about 10+ minutes with my rig on and my main slowly sinking. And even though my rig was definitely water-logged, I didn't have trouble treading water for that long since my rig didn't seem to feel very heavy -- I guess the adrenaline was still pumping from jumping in front of about 20,000 people.

I had thought about doing an intentional cutaway before I hit the water, but several of the more experienced jumpers and the DZO very strongly advised against it saying that there was only a very small window of opportunity (like 5-10' above the water) to cut away safely and that depth perception is often a factor on water jumps not to mention that this demo jump was at dusk (right before a huge fireworks display) which also plays with your depth perception.

[DougH 270]

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Maybe he opened higher than the others and the winds were pushing him backwards. Maybe he's 80lbs lighter and wasn't getting any penetration. Maybe he's flying a significantly different canopy than the others. I can think of a few legit explanations.

-Michael

I won't hang a guy for a mistake, I make plenty, but none of those are "legit explanations". They are are variables of the jump and they need to be factored into the dive flow so the demo can still go off without a hitch!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[chaosreins 0]

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Yeah, I noticed that too, One of the stories said that he cut-away the main, so that's probably lost. He may have kept the rig on for some buoyancy from the reserve, until it would get saturated and start getting heavy. And perhaps the lifeguards got there before that happened, so he was okay with keeping it.

looks like nothing was lost - see photo below that i took after fred finally made it out of the water.

[pirana 0]

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I had thought about doing an intentional cutaway before I hit the water, but several of the more experienced jumpers and the DZO very strongly advised against it saying that there was only a very small window of opportunity (like 5-10' above the water) to cut away safely . . .

Why only 5 to 10 feet?

Weight of the rig still on your back?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[mpuettman 0]

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I had thought about doing an intentional cutaway before I hit the water, but several of the more experienced jumpers and the DZO very strongly advised against it saying that there was only a very small window of opportunity (like 5-10' above the water) to cut away safely . . .

Why only 5 to 10 feet?

Weight of the rig still on your back?

The way it was explained to me, if I remember correctly, is that your main is creating drag prior to being cut away. And so when you cut away, you lose that drag and your upper body is no longer being pulled back. And when your upper body no longer has that backwards pull, you could easily lerch forward from the waist up and do a face plant in the water -- which could cause significant injuries such as a torn aorta, if the cutaway occurred at a significant height...

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I had thought about doing an intentional cutaway before I hit the water, but several of the more experienced jumpers and the DZO very strongly advised against it saying that there was only a very small window of opportunity (like 5-10' above the water) to cut away safely . . .

Why only 5 to 10 feet?

Weight of the rig still on your back?

The way it was explained to me, if I remember correctly, is that your main is creating drag prior to being cut away. And so when you cut away, you lose that drag and your upper body is no longer being pulled back. And when your upper body no longer has that backwards pull, you could easily lerch forward from the waist up and do a face plant in the water -- which could cause significant injuries such as a torn aorta, if the cutaway occurred at a significant height...

It's a bit more simple. You may misjudge the altitude over the water, and cut away way to high. I have 1 intentional and 2 other water landing without cut-away.