A Lot Of Whuffos Around Here...

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

You're all foreigners in the US unless you're native, get over it.

Hmm, my passport says "American."

Birthplace even says "Texas"

[popsjumper 2]

I don't see that the general public distinguishes between skydiving and base jumping. It's all nuts under parachutes to them.

So, what either discipline does affects the other.

C'mon, Andy. Everyone involved screwed the pooch. Man up.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andy_Copland 0]

Thats the thing Andy, i can man up to it.

What am I not manning up to? I could have hid, it was my choice to say "hey i was there" as the facts are going to be known to the FAA anyway, no getting around it.

But being a jumper i could have just evaporated into the shadows. The fact is everyone on here is acting holier than holy with their "you broke the rules" finger pointing. Yes we did but who on here can say they have not?

What people fail to realise is this kind of thing is not rare and done quite successfully all the time and never heard of, its just when thigs go bad (and they went as bad as bad can go) then it highlights it.

Ever jumped while still hungover/drunk? Taken beer under canopy? Jumped through clouds? stuck camera's on heads too soon?

Strato put the boot into me saying we took a shit on the skydvers dinner table then proceeds to give advice on another thread saying "Cutaway and re dock." Yea its a joke but it does highlight the hypocrisy.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Andy_Copland 0]

You Texans are a whole other can of worms

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[stratostar 5]

Quote

Strato put the boot into me saying we took a shit on the skydvers dinner table then proceeds to give advice on another thread saying "Cutaway and re dock." Yea its a joke but it does highlight the hypocrisy.

Andy not even close to "putting the boot" to you, rather a different way of saying why you may be getting the cold shoulder on some DZ's by skydivers, I doubt you would get the same from the base crowd.

And yes the other post was a joke, however I do know someone who has done that deploy, chop, redock trick, and yes they redocked.

So have you been banned from any area dz's because of this high profile accident? Or are you only getting treated like shit by some?

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Andy_Copland 0]

Actually got an email from one DZO expressing their sorrow for all involved inviting me out for a jump.

Then 2 friends wanted to do a tandem so went to another local DZ i had never been to before and while they waited i packed my BASE rig on the grass outside and got some nice warm comments of "you can pack that in the hanger if you like."

Seems like dz.com is the only boiling pot.

Edit: So if that reserve didnt open would he get the same shit about taking dumps on skydivers dinner tables?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[stratostar 5]

Quote

So if that reserve didnt open would he get the same shit about taking dumps on skydivers dinner tables?

My guess would be no, that is if it was a skydiving rig and not a base rig, that only leaves the bandit part in play.

FYI- I'm not giving you shit about this whole deal, I do think it was wrong to do, I don;t know all the details, if the pilot was burned because of it, it's really wrong. I have done my share of bandit skydives, they all turned out ok, had they not I'm sure we would have got shit about it.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[virgin-burner 1]

suck it up cupcake, quit yer' bitchin' and go jump!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[billvon 2,394]

>Yes we did but who on here can say they have not?

I have never willingly put a pilot's livelihood at risk.

>What people fail to realise is this kind of thing is not rare and done
>quite successfully all the time and never heard of . . .

So is landing opposite the pattern, pulling directly under another group, cheating during competitions and stealing gear. Just because those things happen all the time, and just because you haven't heard of all the incidents, does not make it OK.

The idea behind reporting incidents is to learn from them, One thing we can learn from this is to use TSOed gear and follow skydiving safety rules when skydiving. They were written in blood; we don't really need to re-learn them every time some yahoo thinks that he is different.

>Ever jumped while still hungover/drunk?

Hungover? Yes. Drunk? No.

>Taken beer under canopy?

Yep.

>Jumped through clouds?

Yep.

>stuck camera's on heads too soon?

Nope.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

You're all foreigners in the US unless you're native, get over it.

Hmm, my passport says "American."

Birthplace even says "Texas"

you know, I still have two valid passports. One is from the US, the other is not. Am I an American ?

DOES IT MATTER when we are using that in skydiving context ??????????????????????

[catfishhunter 1]

Andy, my post in the incidents that Billy deleted was not personal. It was talking directly to the incident and how to AVOID it in the future.

I by no means wish ill of you or anyone that was there but I will not be one of the folks saying "Ohhh poor you it's ok it isn't your fault. There was nothing you could have done. blah bla blah" Yes there was something you could have done and to say it wouldn't have made a difference is bull shit as no one tried so there is no way to know.

Maybe he would have called it off or put a skydive rig on and exited and deployed at appropriate altitudes. OR Maybe if you told the pilot he would most defiantly lose his abillity to support his family if shit went6 sideways HE wouldn't have let him on.

Now if that is picking on you sorry bro put your big girl panties on this isn't tiddly winks...

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Andy_Copland 0]

Next time someone goes in wearing a skydiving rig and you're on the load, i want you to feel all the guilt and take blame for letting them do something so dangerous like jumping out a plane.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[catfishhunter 1]

You still don't get it.....I am sorry about your friend and I am sorry you feel bad. I don't wish that on anyone but feeling bad doesn't change facts. Your guys broke the law and your friend paid for it with his life and the pilot could/will pay for it with his livelyhood.

This isn't about going in. No one wants anyone to go in. It is about breaking the law FAR's are Laws and as has been stated they where written in blood.

So instead of blame shifting and excuese how about facing this head on and teacvhing folks that the FAR's really are there for a DAMN good reason and it is a BAD Idea to play russian roullete with them

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Andy_Copland 0]

So you really have never broken an FAR?

Who am i shifting blame on?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[catfishhunter 1]

We are not talking about me now are we...This was about how to avoid an incident in the future not about well he did or she did but WHAT YOU (meaning those involved in the incident) DID.

There is nothing else relevant PERIOD. Stop trying to shift it.

Now to adress what you said. If I ever delibertly <-key word) set out to break a law and someone dies then I am criminally negligant and should expect to be treated as such. Pointing at Joe Smoe and saying well he did it and got away with it so blah blah blah would be a very poor defense

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[Andy_Copland 0]

delibertly? Sorry I don't know that word.

Back on topic, i think you're a complete whuffo and should just PA removed by slotperfect.

"poor pilot" blah blah blah, hes an adult and is as much to blame as the REST of us. Poor mother and father more like. PA removed by slotperfect.

You have deliberately (notice the spelling so you don't fuck up again) busted clouds that have been "written in blood" and its not blame shifting. Don't even tell me out of 700 jumps you've never broken an FAR deliberately. Its saying look at it from a BASE jumpers point of view. Do you think I, or anyone else could have stopped him jumping his set up?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[slotperfect 7]

[warning]

PAs are not permitted in the forums. Please control your temper when you post.

[/warning]

Arrive Safely

John

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Do you think I, or anyone else could have stopped him jumping his set up?

Well, yes...you could have told the pilot about relevant FARs and to not take you guys up.
But who am I to say?

I know, I know. Sometimes it's awfully hard to just say no...and yes, many of us have fallen victim to that. Doesn't mean it's a good idea, though, nor excusable. Unfortunately for all concerned it turned out badly in this case.

I know first-hand that it's tough dealing with a loss such as this and we all deal with these things differently. I just wish that you could get past that "look at what YOU guys do" approach.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andy_Copland 0]

Andy this is my whole point, assumptions being made about the pilot. Who here can tell me EXACTLY what was told to the pilot by us and what knowledge he had? None of you.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[dunderhead1 0]

don`t you think 2 years in "business" still makes you a whuffo?

[Andy_Copland 0]

Its a profile, i have not changed my "years" in a while.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

don`t you think 2 years in "business" still makes you a whuffo?

But did he say that he IS NOT ? He made a general statement. The discussion is NOT about his abilities, nationality or skydiving experience.

Why do all you people keep bringing AndyC into this argument - he has never indicated anything about himself as part of the conversation.

dunderhead1, do you have issues with Brits just like JerryB does ? Do you like him think they should not be skydiving in the US ?

[catfishhunter 1]

Quote

Why do all you people keep bringing AndyC into this argument - he has never indicated anything about himself as part of the conversation.

HUH? Andy started this thread because of something I said in the incident thread that billy deleted.

Andy was there/part of crew that where base jumping from the aircraft. He is calling me and others whuffos because we/myself won't give him/them a pass on breaking the law which resulted in a fatallity.

So yes Andy is the center of this thread. He wants to say it is ok top break the law because other people have. Well no it doesn't make it ok.

Have I broke the Law? Well yes it is a matter of public record. Was there others that I was not convicted of? Yes that is public record as well. Where there other laws I broke that I was never caught? Well that is not public record and it will stay that way.

But again none of that has a thing to do with this. You can scream and yell and jump up and down and call names all you want but it won't change anything. It is black and white.

You KNOWINGLY broke the Law and someone died. There was no way he could have done it alone therefore everyone involved is culpable.

Again Andy I am sorry for your loss and if I had the power turn back Time I would. I am not holding anything your have said against you but at that same time your not getting a pass because you feel bad.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

Why do all you people keep bringing AndyC into this argument - he has never indicated anything about himself as part of the conversation.

HUH? Andy started this thread because of something I said in the incident thread that billy deleted.

Andy was there/part of crew that where base jumping from the aircraft. He is calling me and others whuffos because we/myself won't give him/them a pass on breaking the law which resulted in a fatallity.

So yes Andy is the center of this thread. He wants to say it is ok top break the law because other people have. Well no it doesn't make it ok.

Have I broke the Law? Well yes it is a matter of public record. Was there others that I was not convicted of? Yes that is public record as well. Where there other laws I broke that I was never caught? Well that is not public record and it will stay that way.

But again none of that has a thing to do with this. You can scream and yell and jump up and down and call names all you want but it won't change anything. It is black and white.

You KNOWINGLY broke the Law and someone died. There was no way he could have done it alone therefore everyone involved is culpable.

Again Andy I am sorry for your loss and if I had the power turn back Time I would. I am not holding anything your have said against you but at that same time your not getting a pass because you feel bad.

You CANNOT BASE jump from the Aircraft. Just like you cannot go ice skating on grass.
You can however use BASE jumping gear to make jumps from aircraft.

Any is NOT at the center of the thread. He may have jumped that helo, he may have not. He may have used BASE gear he may have not. His actions have NOTHING to do with the fact that the person died.

I don't think Andy is looking for a "pass". He is merely venting as to how close minded some skydivers can be.

oh, for the record my most recent aircraft parachute jumps have been on non-TSOd gear and without reserves - does that make me an imbecile ?

[PhreeZone 15]

Andy, you were there... why don't you tell us what exactly was explined to the pilot. Was it made clear to him that the jump was going to be in violation of the FAR's before the Helicopter fired up its engine?

I have broken a few coulds and hence FAR's in my jumps - Some with the pilot who was a skydiver specifically knowing and saying to jump anyways and some where we tried to miss as well as possible and still hit an edge. The intentional busts were made with the pilot knowing the FAR's and knowing what would happen. The unintentional ones were made with every effort of not violating including some landings after going to the top and finding no holes.

There is a difference between knowing that you will be violating the FAR's before ever starting up the engine and accidently breaking one due to the situation. If the pilot was informed of every FAR that was to be violated then there is no more arguments on the topic.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com