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MNM604

getting scared.

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Girlfriend and I are still new and in the process of finishing off our license requirements. Up until the other day, everything has been great. Straight through AFF with no problems, and everthing since has been coming along fine. The problem is the other day I was making my 20th jump on a hop and pop from 4000. For some reason, this jump scared the hell out of me. The ride up sucked and my exit sucked worse. I was unable to leave in a nice stable exit, went on my back, and had to force myself belly to earth. Then I tunnel visioned, never saw my altimeter or even remember looking at it, panicked and pulled while turning, putting myself into a spinning line twist. By the way, this was on my second pack job -- ever (student rig). Regardless, I was still in the saddle over 3000, and had no problems getting out of the twist and landing. I did not realize how much time I actually had though, but now I cant shake the feeling that I allowed myself to panick and freeze. Our DZO laughed and shook it off, as I apparently still had plenty of time. I take it this is normal, but the feeling just sucked. Not sure why I'm posting, but i just wanted to share.

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Bro let me tell you a story about myself.

Back in fall / winter to 2000 - 2001 I was going through the IAD system.

1st jump - A blast
2nd jump - Scared the hell out of me
3rd - 7th jump - Blast

8th jump (10 second freefall) - Started out a blast, I remember enjoying teh ride up and being amped and going out on the strut well. Then I let go and all I remember is the feeling of speed and my body shifting belly to earth. I do not remember counting, I do not remember seeing anything I barely remember pulling. The jumpmaster said I did great but only fell about 5 sesonds instead of 10, but it scared the hell out of me none the less.

It scared me bad enough I up and walked away from the sport untill reciently. I truely missed it, and there probably has not been a week that has gone buy between 2001 and now that I didnt regret quiting

Guess what Im trying to say is I regret not sticking with it and if you do enjoy it then make sure you stick with it and learn to overcome your fears. I wish I did.

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I believe many students associate hop'n'pops with "jumping from low altidute" and rush the things thinking that they need to deploy the main parachute quicker then usually. I had very similar problem on my first hop'n'pop (jump #10) and was scared of hop'n'pops for a while. I also saw quite a few students (who were already used to pulling at about 4K on normal freefall jumps) trying to pitch immediately after leaving the plane (literally almost on the step) on hop'n'pop from 5.5K;). If you leave the plane at 4 grand, it will probably take you about 10 seconds to get to 3K. Understanding this will help to relax on hop’n’pops.

P.S. I am not an instructor so please take this with a grain of salt.

P.P.S. First jump on your own pack job is quite a confidence builder isn’t it?;)

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Skydiving is a very mental sport, if you psychic yourself up before the jump you will screw up. This changes as you get more jumps but is always there. I can remember screwing up on 15 ways when I had a hundred jumps and the reason was I felt intimidated by everyone I was jumping with (they all had four times or more jumps then me) and I just knew I would screw up (hey guess what, I did). The biggest key is just relaxing, thinking things through and you will be fine. Even at 4000 AGL you have plenty of time, do not think about the what if’s just concentrate on what you need to do to make things go right(big deep breaths).
Kirk

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Blue Skies Mike!

Unlike some who have posted, I an instructor and coach ...in Canada. We jump Cessana 182's 6 months of the year, most students learn via IAD from 3,000 ft.

Your "problem" is common and almost certainly psychological. This means it is within YOUR control. Being your own worst critic is a valuable learning tool / survival skill in this sport if you use it correctly. Your local instructors would surely have had serious discussions with you already if they saw anything grossly unsafe or negligent in your actions. They did not. Pause...deep breath....relax.... What you describe as tunnel vision and lack of recall are classic symtoms of anxiety issues - you yourself mentioned "the ride up sucked". You may inadvertently set yourself up for a bad skydive.

STOP RIGHT THERE! GET THOSE BAD THOUGHTS OUT OF YOUR HEAD...NOW!!
(trust me on this, no good comes from them).

Someone said the first grand takes about 10 seconds - yes this is about right. would you expect to be unstable for 10 seconds on an AFF dive? Of course not. Put things in their proper perspective. Ask more questions of your coaches. Know your freefall math. Don't aceept being 'laughed at' - that's beneath your worth as a student skydiver. Anyone who claims they were 'never there' either has poor memory or poor character. My guess is poor memory... so soon we forget our difficult first jumps

Congratulations on your post-beer packjob, BTW. I remember my first packjob... I was still a student so they didn't make me buy beer. I think it opened in linetwists too ;).

Chin-up Man! You WILL be fine. Go jump again, soon. (And, if you dare ask for a 'get back on the horse' story, PM me).

-Dave


Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

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Don't beat yourself up about it. You jumped, you pulled, you handled the twists, and you landed safe. That's a good skydive in my book, for what it's worth.

I'd follow your sigline advice, if I were you. ;)
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams

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On my solo jump, I was very nervous and rushed my pull. This caused a spinning pull which gave me some good line twists. It seemed like it took for ever to kick out. I did PRCP's on the next 5 jumps as per my instructor. I have not had a problem since.

Don't let it rattle you. My instructor told me to relax.

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

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Blue Skies Mike!

Unlike some who have posted, I an instructor and coach ...in Canada. We jump Cessana 182's 6 months of the year, most students learn via IAD from 3,000 ft.
;).

-Dave


You know Dave with your whopping 268 jumps I really do not think you should be throwing around being an instructor. Oh yeah and it took you how many years to get those 268 jumps in?
Do not come in and slame everone with that minuscule amount of jumps. Oh, I have had my coach rating and also since you seem so intent on throwing around credentials I have had my tandem rating for two years. Go get a life
Kirk

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I believe many students associate hop'n'pops with "jumping from low altidute" and rush the things thinking that they need to deploy the main parachute quicker then usually



Amen. My first hop-n-pop for my A was at about 4.5K-5K. I remember thinking - "The A card says I need to be deployed by 5 seconds after exit... Since I am a little higher than the 3.5K on the card, lets keep the time as if I was at 3.5K to simulate an A/C emergency exit or the 3.5K planned jump."

I remember having my hand on the PC hacky like a millisecond after leaving the plane. I said, "no, dude, get a little bit more stable, if you pull now it is gonna suck, you have time." I did wait a second - and even then, I saw the 8 other people on the hop-n-pop freefall past me (safely in the distance). I looked at my alti and thought, "I could have slowed that down a bit - there is no need for that kind of rush."

One hop-n-pop taught me how slow the first 1000 feet of freefall really is.

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Those who go through AFF have difficulty with doing HnP's, those who go thru IAD or Static-line have difficulty with going from 3-4K with suddenly finding themselves at 13,5k.

To me, one of the best things to come out of the ISP is the blend of all instructional methodologies. Each method has its strengths and weaknesses.

AFF is a little too fast and overwhelming for some, while others take to it naturally. S/L and IAD take longer to learn how to fly your body, but "...teaches you how to be a good parachutist, before learning how to be a skydiver." [Germain]

You did well and there are certain to be other moments of apprehension and doubt. Please be encouraged by what you've learned rather than how you felt. You've now learned how much time you actually have on a lower exit and can build on that with the confidence of having been already successful.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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i thought it was rather odd that you were a coach and instructor with such low jump numbers also, but your advice was sound. ignore those on here who can't wait to jump down your throat because of their perceived superiority.

i've witnessed MANY jumpers with less than 500 jumps who are far superior in talent to myself with almost 1,000. admittedly, i'm a bit older and more conservative, but some of you guys just take to this sport like it is the most natural thing in the world.

i like hearing from EVERYONE, regardless of experience, in all of life. causes me to think in ways i may not have on my own. keep contributing to the forums, and ignore those who would degrade you.

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Dude, been there, done that...

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I was unable to leave in a nice stable exit, went on my back, and had to force myself belly to earth.



On a random jump around jump 20 (on a very, very, very cold day) - I found myself on my back. All thru AFF, and every time before, and every time after, I just flipped over. I don't even know how I do it, it just happens when I tell it to. (Well, I do know, but the point is my brain normally just does it on command without thinking about the steps involved.)

Well, on this one jump - it took all my brain power and all my body to make it happen. I had to think about my arms and my arch. Once I flipped, my feet caused a turn that I had to toe-tap out of. Scared the piss out of me, I flew that jump worse than I flew AFF1 – the whole thing sucked.

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… putting myself into a spinning line twist. By the way, this was on my second pack job -- ever (student rig).



Ok – so on my first pack job ever I planned on pulling a little high, just in case.

Ok – so the plan was – pull somewhere higher than 3.5K, lower than 5K. The other jumpers in the air knew this, so no surprises… Well, when I got to 5K, my brain said, “pull now, don’t wait – it might not work”. I panicked and went for the hacky. Well, from my last move I was not even arched. The next thing I got to feel was body turn onto its side and feel the D-bag brush against my entire left arm as it left the container. The thing opened just like a champ UNTIL the only riser that was loaded was the right one.

Result – 8 line twists that went into a dive after the sixth twist. Found my handles, but decided I had the time, so I fixed the problem. I remember counting the twists as they spun up, and being very dizzy after the whole thing was over. The first question I asked the rigger was, “so, how many line twists is considered kindof normal, and how many are considered real bad?” At least I know my pack job worked.

Anyway – the point being – been there, done that. You are not the only one to scare the piss out of yourself early on. Have fun and, as the sign says at our DZ – never give up.

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I would first like to say I know I have low jump numbers, but I figured since it has only been a few months since I was in the same boat I would post.

You may be scared by the event, but I believe that is the reason the H&P was placed in the AFF. If you were that scared by the H&P and add smoke coming from the engine, how much worst do you think it would be.

My DZ was really picky about being stable counting to 3 and pulling (rightly so). I knew there was 10sec and pretty much back flipped (accidently) took my sweet time to be stable and pitched. I did a few fun jumps from 10000 feet, focusing on my exit position (man I hate poised exits) and did dummy pulls after count to 3. Then when I was ready, I did the H&P again. Did it at a different airfield (on the coast) and it was a great feeling, mind you I wish I looked at the camera in the plane all the way till pitch.

I personally thought the most important thing about H&P was being stable when you pitch. I figured as long as I was not too low I would hard arch then pull.

Mind you a few jumps later I did a fun H&P a little lower than 4000 (which was the planned height). As the height was different I was confused and unprepared and I pitched straight away. After a bit of teasing from the other people on the load I realised how bad it could have been if I pitch at the door it then caught the tail. I did not realise I pitched so quickly until people mentioned the look on my face.

Stay safe, and you are definately not the only one who was scared by the H&P.

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Hi

In my first skydiving career (1200 jumps, stopped many years, now coming back) I used to have an overpowering feeling something would happen "this jump" and this was about every 200-300 jumps. It never went away and I fully expect it will happen to me again now as I resume. In reality nothing ever happened at these times and mals and other incidents always seemed to happen when I was having care free, blue skies, shit i'm flyin well today kind of days. Bottom line ..dont worry about the occassional worry ...just means you are sane and respect the risks...just be ready always

have fun, Steve
regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

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Good post! ...And absolute ditto to almost everything said. Always astounds me the one's who say they "premonitioned" the event, and just "knew" they should have sat that one out. Although there are LEGITIMATE reasons and indications at times NOT to make a jump, ...just "gut feelings" is rarely one of those.

Your last line says it all:
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Bottom line ..dont worry about the occassional worry ...just means you are sane and respect the risks...just be ready always



Advance worry to the extent that it will freeze you though, needs to be "gotten over". And usually the best way to do that, is to just "get over it". ;)

Blue Skies,
-Grant
coitus non circum - Moab Stone

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My first Hop 'n Pop was from 3500' I got stable went to pull and rolled, so I stabilized went to pull and rolled again. Then I realized I wasn't putting my other hand up because I wasn't waving off on the hop 'n pop, so I got stable and pulled successfully putting my arm up this time. Turned out I had more time than I realized (and needed it).

Of course I had to repeat the Hop 'n Pop and I was apprehensive after my earlier experience :)
You'll get over this and have fun. It doesn't sound like you froze badly, you pulled and were open by 3k, I was probably at 2k when I finally opened on my first H&P.

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What DT said pretty much summed it up. I'll add I used to have this memorized it's from Dune

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see it's path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.***

Between 9-10 grand I'd say that under my breath. Take 3 slow deep breaths in through the nose out the mouth, gear check, then practice pull and emergency procedures 3 times.

A little bit of over kill but it made me a lot more comfortable and kept my mind in a positive mode.

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I remember when I did my 1st HopNPop. I asled question son this site so I would know what to expect and then went over and over in my mind, so I would do it right even if I was scared. I think the fear thing comes on more when we do something different for the first time. Our bodies get used to one thing but will scream when we try a new thing for the first time. The solution for me was to train and get myself so ready i would do it right no matter what my nerves are doing. I dont always now but for a long time I did my first jump of the day by myslef, because this got my head into the right space before complicating it by jumping with other people.

________________________________________
Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own.

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THANK-YOU Snowflake.

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What DT said pretty much summed it up. I'll add I used to have this memorized it's from Dune




My message got through to at least one person... I hope more. You added a very concrete (and very appropriate) physical drill. Nice touch on the Dune quote, too, BTW (mind if I use it?)

It's amazing how important the role of our mind is in this sport. With no frame of reference there can be no Understanding (Jung) ... and this is not a sport to "just do".

Dave


Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

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My message got through to at least one person... I hope more. You added a very concrete (and very appropriate) physical drill. Nice touch on the Dune quote, too, BTW (mind if I use it?)



I don't think anyone really missed the message, Your coach instructor statement probably annoyed a few people and misdirected the focus of this post a tad. The quote is from Frank Herbert so I don't think I can stop you from using it:P, thats why I posted it anyway.

I learned a long time ago 90 percent mental 10 percent physical

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MNM,
Don't worry man. The most important thing is that you landed safely. After that everything is gravy. I'm a low jump number guy and I know EXACTLY what you are feeling. For me what made it scary was that the ground seemed sooo BIG!!! I got out at 3.5 and I had been consistently under a good canopy by 4k since the beginning of my training. Also they did not cut the engine as the normally do on jump run. I swam like an olympic swimmer on that first H&P exit. I was stable in time to open and have a nice canopy ride. I repeated that jump too.

Before the second time around my coach took me aside and told me that even with all that swiming and tumbling I was under a good canopy in plenty of time. We went over exits and had a few laughs about it. Next try was probably one of my better exits to date.

Stick with it. You will be fine. I still get a little nervous when the door opens. I just change the focus from fear to make me pay attention to what's going on. you can do it. Talk it over with you instructors and you'll be fine.

Have fun and be safe!!

B


The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

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My second jump was pretty scary too. I back slid during the openning sequence and my AFF instructor held me down. I "woke up" from the openning with severe line twists -- kicked out and kept jumping.

I've taken a year off jumping after losing a few friends and having a few more scares but I'll be back this weekend.

My best advice is to jump "good" equipment, forgiving parachutes (this small canopy fad is killing the sport), and with good judgement.

You're on your own up there but I don't see a reason why we shouldn't look out for each other.

Blue ones!
"dude, where's my main?"

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