p1p3 0 #1 October 14, 2008 I recently started AFF and have done four jumps so far. The first two jumps I did in one day and the following two day I did level three and four. The first three jumps went well. A bit of a hard landing on the first two but nothing out of the ordinary for a beginner. All in all, pretty uneventful. Jump four is when things started to heat up a bit. It was probably my best jump so far. Good exit, good freefall, pulled on time. I was very happy with it. This was also on the last load before sunset and it was starting to get a bit dark. Once under canopy something felt a bit strange but everything looked OK. I did a flare, no problems. Tried a turn and it felt good. On this jump I was jumping a different rig than the jumps before so that was probably why it felt strange. Anyway, when I look for the landing site I see that I have drifted quite a bit with the wind. I try to get back but after about 1000 feet I realize there is no way I'm getting to the landing area. I'm now at 2500 feet and above some trees. I look around a find a good field downwind that I know i can reach. The sun is setting fast but there is still not too much problem seeing anything. I reach the field, everything looks fine. I do a standard landing pattern and do my best landing so far. I also remember to always roll when landing out so I do it just for the heck of it but could probably have landed standing up. I walk back to the dz and they asked my why I was flying with the wind and I give them pretty much the story above. We talk trough the jump and I pass. This all happened last week. Now fast forward to today. After work I went to the dz. I get there pretty late and this time I also get on the last load. I get geared up and we go out to the plane. Before my other jumps I have been pretty nervous about an hour or so before the jump but once I start going through the jump on the ground it passes. On this jump however the nervousness came just before I get into the plane. I even consider giving up my seat on the load 5 to 10 minutes before takeoff. I discuss it with my instructor and decide to go for it. The ride up to altitude calms me down a bit. I love flying and it usually helps me collect my thoughts. Me and my instructor go through the jump again in the air and i feel happy that I didn't chicken out on the ground. We are now almost at exit altitude. The sun is setting but its still not as dark as last time. Sitting in the airplane is probably also making it feel darker than it really is. The door opens and we are the first to exit. Before I even get in the door I freeze up. My mouth gets dry and I'm getting dizzy. I tell my instructor and he asks me if I want to abort. I tell him I do and the other jumpers exits. He tells me we can do another fly over, but I tell him I don't want to. So I ride the plane down in shame feeling crap abut myself. I know its better to not jump if you feel uncertain about it but it doesn't make me feel any better. The next time I will have an opportunity to jump will be on Saturday if the weather allows. Now I'm afraid the same thing will happen next time I jump. Could it be just that the circumstances was similar as last time with the sunset and new gear that is getting to me? I'm starting to get confident about my free fall skills. Not that I'm very good but at least I'm not spinning out of control. Could some tunnel time get my confidence up? I wont be able to go to a tunnel before the season is over here in Sweden and I really wanted to get my A this year. Any other tips? How did you get over your first plane ride down? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redline165 0 #2 October 14, 2008 Well, i'm still new, but i will tell you that you made the right decision. Im sure your instructor felt the same way. As far as the confidence goes, id suggest trying to get there earlier in the day, and just chill. Watch some others jump. Relax. if the day goes on and you feel like jumping id go for it, in good daylight. if it still doesnt feel right, do just as you did. ride it down. Ive done a good bit of tunnel time, and it does help build confidence, but to me it was more of a free fall confidence, which from what it sounds like doesn't seem to be your problem. Seems like your fear is of the whole thing. My best suggestion for that would to be to talk to someone you trust at your DZ, tell them the while story, and they should be able to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #3 October 14, 2008 Any other tips? How did you get over your first plane ride down? Never rode the plane down, but that's meaningless...we all react to stress in different ways. You seem to have a good understanding of what's going on and that's a good thing. I might suggest that you head out to the DZ Saturday, with no intention of actually jumping, just head on out to enjoy the vibe, see some friends, take in the energy. If the spirit moves you once there, by all means gear up, but you have to remember the sky will always be there waiting for you and this is NOT a required class as far as getting through life is concerned...it's all good! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laura182 0 #4 October 14, 2008 wow.. your post got my attention as a new student too. What I would probably do in that situation is do my next jump earlier and focus on finding the DZ the entire time. Once you find it agian you hopefully will get over the fear. You should look at the positive side that at least you landed safely somewhere and had the skills to find a safe place to land when you couldn't find your landing site. Best of Luck on your next jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #5 October 15, 2008 you did what you thought was right...you will find that sometimes when you are watching the winds that you will stand down as well. bottom line is it is your ass on the line (and sometimes others) if you screw up. sometimes listening to that voice in your head saying "don't jump" is a good thing. it means you are not mentally prepared for the skydive so why put yourself at risk for injury. it may have turned out fine...but if something would have happened and you ended up injured you would be kicking yourself in the ass for a different reason.DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeregrineFalcon 0 #6 October 15, 2008 <<>> The first thing you do is stop feeling like crap. There was NO shame in what you did and if anyone on that load felt there was, he's a douche bag. It actually took a lot of courage to abort in front of the other skydivers. You did the right thing. Airtwardo said to go to the DZ without the intention of jumping. I like that idea. Go there with the intention of learning how to pack. Go early, relax. Talk to people. If your AFFI isn't too busy, talk to him. I bet at some point on another day or maybe even later that day, this will go away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dynamicedge 0 #7 October 15, 2008 I agree. It takes more guts to bow out than it does to go ahead and jump when you feel it isn't right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #8 October 15, 2008 You need to make sure you are paying attention to whether or not you are drifting before 2500 feet. The rule usually is, never fly over anything you don't want to land on. If you were drifting that was a problem, but you should pick out an alternate landing area if there is any doubt you wont get back to the DZ and be prepared to use it. And the biggest rule of all is, if you're alive (and you didn't kill anyone else) then you did the right thing. Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilot-one 0 #9 October 15, 2008 I rode the plane down a few times myself after my level 4 reserve ride. There wasn't one person that gave me crap or even joked at the time. What it took for me to get over it was simply time and the desire to have a license to skydive. If you are into reading about human behavior there are several books out there. One of the better books that I've read several times is Brian Germain's book "Transcending Fear". There is no reason to rush it. The sky will be there and when you're ready you will know it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vikram 0 #10 October 15, 2008 I think you did the right thing..and like dynamicedge said it takes a lot more guts to ride the plane back down. My jump #5: similar situation- sunset load- brain dead and chickened out at the door, but instead of riding back down I said fuck it just kind of literally fell out of the plane and flew crappily all over the place...needless to say I failed that level bad, scared my instructor(sorry!) , and I might have risked both our life's... I'm going to pass on the advice given to me after that jump: Try visualizing the exit before jump run...I visualized how I'm goin to walk to the door, spot, and exit with a nice arch looking up at the plane etc...and it really helped me relax and remember its always a whole lot of fun once your out the door Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Isfrael 0 #11 October 15, 2008 man, I feel the same things that you feel right now, and from the amount of new guys that have voiced an opinion in this forum I think were not alone. I had a bad first solo landing, I was over 250 yards short of the DZ and landed in a garbage dump. I was hauling ass with the wind and I didn't PLF, I bruised both my ankles and I sprained my finger. I was so shell shocked with from this; it was one of those moments where once I got back to the DZ I didn't want to be there anymore, I felt like shit and I just wanted to go home. I was thinking to myself, what am I doing? This is crazy and now I've wasted all this money... and so on and so fourth. but recently I went for my number three AFF and I went on a weekend and on the weekends they fly a PAC (a much bigger/faster plane than the weekday Cessna) the atmosphere was awesome, there were happy people everywhere, and the ride to altitude was smooth and fast. I hoped out of the plane no problem, and had an awesome ride down. but today when I went for my AFF #4 there was no one at the DZ and I had to jump the Cessna, and the entire time I just had this dread in the bottom of my stomach... god it sucked. In the end I think for us new guys were just so new that we all have our niches that we feel comfortable in, and as it was said above, only time will let us operate comfortably outside of those niches. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #12 October 15, 2008 being out of your niche will continue to be a problem....until you find that niche you really belong in. guys...keep working at it, keep fighting for it. skydiving is one of the most amazing adventures life can take you and in addition to jumping you meet some really cool people compared to if you continued to live in your box. DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsreznor 0 #13 October 15, 2008 Yeah mang...if it doesn't look good, you have no commitment to jump. I'm getting better at spotting and the first one that I did on my own last weekend, it looked dicey, just a bit farther than I wanted to jump from. But I went anyway and managed to make it back without a problem. There were some other student solos behind me and all the tandems. Once I get down, I find out that after I jumped that they did a 180 and another jump run. I was talking to my instructor on the ground and she made it very clear that if you don't feel it's a good spot, you tell the pilot to turn around, or you let the people in front of you go first and then you turn it around. I guess the point is that if it doesn't feel right for you, then don't do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #14 October 15, 2008 u're lucky, i've had my first off-landing at around #175.. its a pretty good feeling of being able to land anywhere. use that, you did good!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
p1p3 0 #15 October 15, 2008 Thanks for all the good advice. I think I'm gonna go out to the dz this weekend and just chill out. Like I said, I'm very proud of my landing on level four. I got shit scared when I realized I couldn't make it back to the landing area but once I started thinking and remembering everything I been taught on the dz and here I knew I was gonna be fine as long as I didn't panic. Just as long as a planed my landing far ahead. I also have to say no one at the dz gave me any crap about me riding the plane down and my coworker told me she thought I did the right thing. Thinking back at it now a day later when my feelings have calmed down I'm also glad I did. Still there is nothing worse than watching the whole load get out and you sitting there alone on the way down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #16 October 15, 2008 Still there is nothing worse than watching the whole load get out and you sitting there alone on the way down Quote It's always better to be inside wishing you were out, that outside wishing you were back in! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
el6uapo 0 #17 October 15, 2008 When you are chillin at the dropzone do some planning. Get a mark on the rig you are used to. Check out the aerial photographs. Understand the winds up top as well as on the ground and draw up a complete plan from start to finish. Additionally, don't jump sunset for now. Give yourself plenty of room and forget about the bad feelings from the past. Last but not least, make sure you smile and enjoy the entire process! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hexadecimal 0 #18 October 15, 2008 QuoteNow I'm afraid the same thing will happen next time I jump. It probably will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kylexedge 0 #19 October 15, 2008 On my last AFF jump I turned final way too soon and overshot the landing area by like 100 yards and had to land on a narrow strip of asphalt between two hangars. It was a nice tip-toe landing and I passed AFF but it still messed with my head because my accuracy was always pretty decent before that. For the first time I was really nervous about doing another jump, but I landed right in the landing zone and I wasn't nervous anymore. Bottom line, I'm sure once you do another jump and land where you're supposed to you'll be fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #20 October 16, 2008 I didn't start doing sunset loads until I had 50+ jumps and was comfortable with my canopy. Sunset loads are awesome but they do add extra risk factors. I have ridden the plane down but that was for wind, it was fun. If you're not comfortable, don't be pressured by other people BUT be aware that you may not be seeing the risks/situation clearly if you're very scared. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #21 October 17, 2008 Just want to make the point that I've heard many times. Do NOT reach out to brace for impact. And my two cents... Whether you remember to PLF or not, just let your body collapse. The momentum that you have will flip your around when your feet hit the ground causing your body to imitate a PLF naturally. Not saying it will always happen, but usually if you just let your momentum do the work you'll "accidentally" PLF. Most likely you will naturally do a PLF, perfect or not if you don't stick an arm around and just let your body collapse. The momentum you have sometimes will naturally turn your body and you probably won't get all the force in one place (your side or back for example). Sticking a limb out negates this. I've done it several times and it usually ends up in a hurt knee or wrist, or worse. The times that I stuck an arm out, I was going pretty slow and was just trying to stop myself from falling over after I hit the ground. A few times I've bumped my knee doing it though. No matter how slow you are going, if you think you need to PLF you do need to PLF. That is my "newbie" opinion.Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Isfrael 0 #22 October 18, 2008 All hail the PLF!!!! very much agreed, my sprained finger still hurts three weeks later from not doing one!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
travelingmack 0 #23 October 18, 2008 Quote So I ride the plane down in shame feeling crap abut myself. NO ONE will ever look down on you if you join the plane down, it`s your choice.. and it`s your money...and it`s not a big deal at all, it`s only hurt your egoWait to saturday when you can stay there all day long and prepare yourself for the jump, rushing to the dz an afternoon right after job is not a good idea if you are nervous about the jump... btw: good topic.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
p1p3 0 #24 October 18, 2008 Didn't end up going to the dz today because of one hell of a cold. Don't know if that could have been part of the dizziness I felt last time but I hope so. At least I'm gonna tell my brain it was I'm also definitely gonna stay off the sunset loads for a while. The thing about planning I also think is very important. My last to jumps I had the whole freefall part perfectly planned but once under canopy not so much. Arriving to the dz 30 min before the lift and spending most of that time getting finding gear is probably not the best ting to do but was my only alternative if I wanted to jump. Sometimes it sucks to work... The PFL advice is pretty much what I do now. Just let my body compress it self using my knees and legs as springs and roll over. It was actually a lot easier do for real than during training on the ground. The first times I was to pumped up with adrenaline and concentrating on flaring at the right altitude that I completely forgot it. I was just lucky not getting hurt but still feeling enough pain to not forget it again. The thing that nobody should look down on you for riding the plane down is true in theory but doesn't really work in practice. When I was doing my course before my first jump there was one jumper who rode the plane down and I remember looking down on them for not jumping. And this was before I even been in the jump plane at altitude I can only imagine a jumper with a couple of hundred jumps and no plane rides down. Sure they probably have a lot more respect for the the whole thing but still. Of course I would never say anything bad about it to them but I cant change what I was thinking... Now after my own ride down I completely understand the feeling of not wanting to jump but who know in a year or two. The human brain is a strange thing. We easily forget how hard things were in the beginning when we are good at them. I work with computers and is sometimes asked to fix something really simple for people. Usually I think what an idiot for not knowing how to fix this stupid thing, even when I know the person with the problem is a lot smarter than I am. They are just not that good at computers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #25 October 18, 2008 I think experienced jumpers go more easy on newbies staying on the plane than other newbies do. Because we've seen what can happen when you jump anyway even if something is off or seems off. I've seen a girl jump because basically her boyfriend made her and she was very afraid to jump, broke her back on landing then showed up 9 months later to jump again, even more scared than before. I've seen a jumper get out at 2500 ft when she wasn't ready for it and had no idea what altitude she was at, then fly across the plane at 800ft and not realise THAT either. I've jumped myself in too-high winds and got dragged into shrubbery for my trouble. I did a sunset load as a newbie and couldn't see much so flipped over like 6 times on landing, at least it felt that way I jumped when I had a cold, broke my eardrum. Ouch. I've seen a tandempassenger who sorta got shanghied (sp?) into jumping refuse to jump on jumprun because by then she had time to THINK and didn't want to. All of these times it would've been better to stay on the ground or not get out of the plane once up there. You live and learn, and it takes more guts to stay in the plane when something's not right than to just jump when you don't want to. Maybe next time you won't even get in the plane in similar conditions (high winds, sunset, ...) because you learned something ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites