Why are there no Antonov AN-2's in the US?

[flyhi 24]

Bubaskydiver posted a vid of a jump in Argentina from an AN-2. Looked like a cool plane from which to jump. Roomy inside. Rated for 12 passengers. Door looked a little bigger than a King Air with a rail and a step. Could probably hang three or four outside (roomwise). Unique factor way up. Radial piston biplane. Not many of those being built anymore.

I realize they are old and probably inefficient, but there are a buttload of them out there (over 13,000 produced). Some estimates say one can be purchased for about $30,000 US.

Countries currently using the AN-2 include:
Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Azerbaijan, Byelorussia, Bulgaria, China, Croatia, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Georgia, Germany, Hungary, Laos, Latvia, Mali, Mongolia, Nicaragua, North Korea, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovak Republic, Tadjikistan, Ukraine, USSR, Uzbekistan, Vietnam.

Several European dropzones in the database list the AN-2 as one of their aircraft. If one of those countries were to get the world meet and declare the AN-2 as the aircraft of choice, do you think any US dropzone would then buy one? Or do you think the US team would train abroad?

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[DeNReN 0]

We had one opperating in NS for a year or so...cool AC...fun to jump...but best bring a blankie and a pillow for the ride to alt....

I remember one full load that took almost a hour to 10k

[DrewEckhardt 0]

They're registered in the Experimental Exhibition category which prohibits "For hire" operation.

I've heard that parachute operations are prohibited in such aircraft, although FAR 91.319 is silent on the matter. The convention also had an AN-2 at least one year.

Assuming parachute ops are OK AN-2s and Comp Airs (like a Porter, but built from fiberglass with a Czech PT-6 knock-off) might make nice planes for skydiving clubs where members share operating costs.

OTOH, supposedly there is an Alaskan who bought one to haul his own stuff that got in trouble because he was no longer using the commercial services of the local bush-pilots.

[Reginald 0]

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Countries currently using the AN-2 include:
Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Azerbaijan, Byelorussia, Bulgaria, China, Croatia, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Georgia, Hungary, Laos, Latvia, Mali, Mongolia, Nicaragua, North Korea, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovak Republic, Tadjikistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Vietnam.

Um, really? Have you read that list? I think I'll avoid following the lead of most of these countries as far as aviation goes.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Andy9o8 0]

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Countries currently using the AN-2 include:
Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Azerbaijan, Byelorussia, Bulgaria, China, Croatia, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Georgia, Hungary, Laos, Latvia, Mali, Mongolia, Nicaragua, North Korea, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovak Republic, Tadjikistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Vietnam.

Um, really? Have you read that list? I think I'll avoid following the lead of most of these countries as far as aviation goes.

Why? Rubber bands are in abundant supply.

[Faicon9493 114]

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We had one opperating in NS for a year or so...cool AC...fun to jump...but best bring a blankie and a pillow for the ride to alt....

I remember one full load that took almost a hour to 10k

You are correct. When I lived in Northern Illinois many years ago, a DZ in Hebron, IL operated an AN-2. It was a cool novelty but it was very slow getting to altitude.

[brettski74 0]

As others have said, very slow to climb. Also, when I was in Latvia, I heard rumours that AN-2s may not be able to fly in the EU for much longer, as they do not meet current aviation safety standards and will be forcibly retired from service in the next couple of years. The places they are currently flying in the EU are typically left over in eastern block countries that are now part of the EU, such as East Germany and Latvia. The only reason they're still flying today is to allow a transitional period for existing operators to find a suitable replacement aircraft.

[JohnRich 4]

See: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2887086;#2887086

[howardwhite 4]

This one sat on the ramp at Connecticut Parachutists Inc. for several months a bunch of years ago before the owner finally gave up on trying to get permission to use it for jumping; note that it's clearly labeled "Experimental."
There was also one at Finger Lakes Skydivers in New York for a long time, but the FAA told the owner in no uncertain terms that he'd better not let anyone jump out of it.

HW

[kschilk 0]

I jumped one in Russia, several times...personally, it's one of my favorites. I don't really understand why anyone would have any objections to flying them in the U.S. I too was searching for ANs in the U.S. once and came across some interesting info...

The AN-2 (Anton) is/was being used by the military, in relatively large numbers in Afghanistan, Iraq and other parts of the middle east. It's STOL, low and slow capabilities, reliability and range have made it useful as a search/scout and cargo plane. The An-2 is supposedly produced in a few different countries and by different mfgrs...so it's doubtful the quality is consistent. Here's some good info...

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=540734http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=540734

"T'was ever thus."

[mnealtx 0]

I made my first several jumps out of an AN-2. IMO, it's a good static-line plane - plenty of room on exit and enough room for several students and the instructor.

As a 'normal' jump plane, no... too long to altitude. Hell it took 15 minutes or so to get to 3k!!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[sid 1]

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There was also one at Finger Lakes Skydivers in New York for a long time, but the FAA told the owner in no uncertain terms that he'd better not let anyone jump out of it.

HW

It's still here (although it's been sold just not collected yet) and you're right we can't jump out of it...... you know unless there's an emergency situation that demands a bail out - it also takes 50 gallons an hour to operate and probably the same amount in oil! It's a nice lawn ornament though..........

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[flyhi 24]

Sorry I missed Skyfest and never got to jump one.

From the pilot handbook:

"If the engine quits in instrument conditions (blind flying when you can't see the ground) or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft (it won't stall) and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 40 mph (64 km/h), and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 25 mph [40 km/h], the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground."

Sounds safe to me. I assume they are talking cross-braced parachute.

The An-2 has no stall speed quoted in the operating handbook. Pilots of the An-2 say one can fly the aircraft in full control at 30 mph. What's a C-182 stall at, 55 mph?

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[zoobrothertom 5]

For real?! I would love to do .... oh wait. Let me rephrase this. I would love to watch someone do it and walk away!

____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

[mircan 0]

We still jump `em. But it is getting to expensive. Their main role here is dustin mosquitos. Pays better than crapping out skydivers.
It is slow for getting to altitude and we go to 10k feet max. We tried to organize early morning loads (~7 A.M.) when it`s cooler so that we can get better climbing performance but people did not want to get up so early.
Large cabin in which you can stand...
Couple of weeks ago I was in one load when engine took a crap. You could not feel it dive down, although we lost 1000 feet from crap to exit.
As I hear, there are problems im most EU countries regarding insurance, but Serbia is not in the EU.

my2c

dudeist skydiver #42

[pirana 0]

Yeah, there's a list of countries on the cutting edge of aviation tehnology.

And 10 minutes to 3K! How can that be economical anywhere for anything?

Nice to know though that if I'm ever in Mongolia or Angola or . . .

My final comment is that it looks like it came straight out of a Saturday morning cartoon. Makes a 206 look like the plane of the future.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[mnealtx 0]

Yup, it's old and slow (but honestly, not that much slower than a Cessna), but it's a comfortable ride up since you're not squished in asshole to appetite.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mircan 0]

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My final comment is that it looks like it came straight out of a Saturday morning cartoon. Makes a 206 look like the plane of the future.

You are missing a point. It has a soul. People are coming from countries where the AN-2 is banned, just to jump it.

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Yup, it's old and slow (but honestly, not that much slower than a Cessna), but it's a comfortable ride up since you're not squished in asshole to appetite.

100% right. You can stand up in a cabin even if you are 6ft like me. Plenty of room for tandems. And Cessna 182 that we jump takes same time to altitude (25-30min). AN is ideal for static liners though. You can pile up 10 students and drop them out like nothing.

And finally...
Why are there no AN-@`s in the US?
Because every freakin` farmer would be flying at least two. It is soooo cheap (and super-easy to maintain). Just do a search online. And your FAA don`t want kazillion of "russian flying junk" all over US. That`s why.

dudeist skydiver #42

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Because they climb like a stoned chimp.

[justinhawxhurst 0]

We also jump the AN-2 in Sweden. Great plane but slow. Give lots of time for shit talking on the way up.

[riggerrob 558]

There are only a handful of Antonovs flying in Canada, all under RESTRICTED certificates.

Transport Canada refuses to issue commercial certificates to AN-2s because the paperwork weighs less than the gross weight of the airplane.
IOW, all AN-2s were built in communist factories with different record-keeping than North American manufactures.

There is also the capitalist problem that Antonovs might compete with deHavilland (single-engine) Otters.
Oh!
Wait a minute!
deHavilland quit building single-engine Otters in the 1960s!

[mircan 0]

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There is also the capitalist problem that Antonovs might compete with deHavilland (single-engine) Otters.

my thoughts were somewhere along that line of thinking, but what do I know, I live faaaaaar away for you. (and in former communist country)

dudeist skydiver #42

[riggerrob 558]

There is also the problem of age.
All the AN-2s that are available for import are twenty or more years old.

Transport Canada understands how easy it is to certify for import newly-manufactured airplanes.

Slightly used airplanes are more difficult to import.

At a minimum, they require an annual inspection and have all the Service Bulletins, Airworthiness Directives, etc. brought up to date.

However, trying to import a twenty or forty year old Antonov - that has been beat to snot by crop dusters - is a far more complicated process.
If the crop dusters' maintenance records are not up to Transport Canada's standards (highly unlikely) - or even worse(!) written in a slavic language - bureaucrats get confused!
Tee!
Hee!

[mircan 0]

I`m with you 100%.

On the other side, we have a Queen Air that we sometimes jump that is registered in US. Flies with no fuss. No one asks too much questions. He even has 18% discount on AVGAS (because of the foreign registration he pays no tax)...

Maybe I should start a (rant) thread: "Why is it so easy to fly US planes in South-East Europe?"

Blues!

P.S.: Rob, I`m glad you`re OK.

dudeist skydiver #42

[MrPeapit 0]

I'm pretty sure I was the first to jump an AN-2 in the USA back in 1978 at the Southern Cross Skydiving Center. It had just been brought over from Eastern Europe. The owner caught a lot of grief for the red star on the tail. We loved that plane, but it sure took forever to get to altitude. It had a glass plate on the floor that we used for spotting when it was cold out.

1st jump August 6, 1977.
Last jump July 8, 2006.