400 foot demos

[SuFantasma 0]

There is a difference between a sport and a circus... if the USPA wants to have a circus act .... the state so .... let the clowns make a living...

Y yo, pa' vivir con miedo, prefiero morir sonriendo, con el recuerdo vivo".
- Ruben Blades, "Adan Garcia"

[flipper 0]

Has anyone asked why they want the waiver ?

Any of the Redbull crew on here to answer some of the questions gettin asked ?

My opinion .. The Redbull crew know there game and the jumps they are wanting to do would not be a problem to them ... We can get legal building / Crane jumps in Europe without hassle ... from an aircraft at a higher altitude its gonna be safer

[pirana 0]

That lengthy post is mostly very vague; like the stuff politicians throw at us. I'd like to hear some specific action items they plan in order to "rejuvenate" the sport. (BTW, I don't think it needs rejuvenating. It is not mainstream, never will be, and shouldn't be).

The only specific issue out there so far is the desire to exit at 400'. That is self-aggrandizement for them and their sponsor and does nothing for the sport as a whole other than provide the opportunity for something spetacularly bad to happen in front of a big crowd.

So we have read their platform statement. What specific action plans do they have aside from performing 400' demo exits?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[popsjumper 2]

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Any of the Redbull crew on here to answer some of the questions gettin asked ?

I could give the smart-ass answer and say they are too busy building jump numbers to get involved with political issues. But that wouldn't be fair...or would it?

In reality:
Meaningful commentary from those guys has been notably absent in DZ.com. Nevermind just this one issue. There's been little to no meaningful response from them to any of the isues surrounding this election.

Some of them don't even know about the ballot-stuffing issues being discussed.

Read the few portrayals in Parachutist. See how much attention is being paid to real issues.

That's a good thing though...it lets me know who is really interested in supporting skydiving and who is supporting self-interests.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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The only specific issue out there so far is the desire to exit at 400'.

You guys.
Read Mike Mullins post again.
"The original waiver request was for a jump from 1,000 to 2,000 feet with a deployment altitude of 400 feet."

BillVon started this thread on a false premise and even though it was corrected by Mike, you guys seem to have ignored him and keep posting crap about jumping at 400 feet.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[airtwardo 6]

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>so why allow it?

I actually have no problem "allowing" it. Let them get approval from the FAA and do whatever they want. I just don't think USPA should be endorsing it.

I agree. They can get their demo license directly from the FAA. All they have to do is get an FAA inspector to witness their 10 jumps and have him sign them off. Then the waiver, if any is needed, is from the FAA not USPA.

This makes the most sense to me.

Then again The FAA can't provide or endorse the insurance, and to perform a program of this nature may be a bit pricey to 'self-insure'.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I would be willing to bet that the USPAs demo insurance would not touch this.

[Andy_Copland 0]

Its been done successfully for years in demo's across the world. Not saying its a good bet to say they will as if it does go tits up it could be a real mess. But it has been rather successful.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Andy,

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But it has been rather successful.

So is Russian Roulette until 'OOOOPS.'

JerryBaumchen

[airtwardo 6]

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Its been done successfully for years in demo's across the world. Not saying its a good bet to say they will as if it does go tits up it could be a real mess. But it has been rather successful.

I've heard that argument before but can only come up with one or two examples of it being done successfully at demos...'across the world'.

...and of course the fatality this year in the US.

IS there a couple of hundred times and places this HAS been done?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 2,400]

>BillVon started this thread on a false premise and even though it was corrected by
>Mike, you guys seem to have ignored him and keep posting crap about jumping at
>400 feet.

Exiting at 1000 feet and deploying at 400 feet is far worse than exiting at 400 feet.

[ozzy13 0]

HEY RED BULL TEAM where ya at????
Inquiring minds would like to hear your points on this.

I am not sure how you could run for BOD's and not respond to ANY of this?

Who's interest do you have in running? (I am not trying to be a wise ass at all)
What eduction are you going to implement by getting out of a plane at 1000ft and deploying at 400ft?

What other areas are you going to change for the good of education!!!

I might actually vote for you if I hear some of your ideas!!!!!

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[billvon 2,400]

>HEY RED BULL TEAM where ya at????

If you want to discuss the political aspects of this, there is a discussion going on about this in the Elections forum. I believe at least one of them has responded there. I was more interested in the issue of 400 foot openings from a safety/desirability perspective.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Its been done successfully for years in demo's across the world. Not saying its a good bet to say they will as if it does go tits up it could be a real mess. But it has been rather successful.

No one is questioning whether or not it can be done successfully. The question is should USPA be forced into sanctioning it.

[mjosparky 3]

I with Jim on this issue. People keep saying it has been done for years in other countries around the world. Can someone give specifics as to time and place where jumper exited at 1000 feet or lower on a demo? The only one I have heard of the guy bounced and that was in the US.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[feuergnom 22]

this is some years down the road (2000/2001, not sure of the date) and i remember being at the so called "red bull flugtag" in vienna /austria where one jumper exited a plane from 300 meters = 1000 feet and opened after some delay. since i did not jump at this time it is hard to guess how high he opened. but it was ridiculosly low

the stunt was the attraction of the day and from memory it left everbody wondering how crazy one had to be to perform something like that

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[fastphil 0]

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I with Jim on this issue. People keep saying it has been done for years in other countries around the world. Can someone give specifics as to time and place where jumper exited at 1000 feet or lower on a demo? The only one I have heard of the guy bounced and that was in the US.

Sparky

In 1982 a girlfriend and I jumped a small helicopter from about 1200' at a demo in Pearland TX. We both took short delays and probably saddled in about a grand or just under. I used a StratoFlyer and I think she did also, those little canopies had bulletproof openings.

[popsjumper 2]

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Exiting at 1000 feet and deploying at 400 feet is far worse than exiting at 400 feet.

I dunno. After I did the stoopid thing and stepped off out the door, I'd have about 600 ft to come to my senses and try to fix the stoopid.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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No one is questioning whether or not it can be done successfully. The question is should USPA be forced into sanctioning it.

Put me solidly in the NO camp.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[jtnesbitt 0]

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Exiting at 1000 feet and deploying at 400 feet is far worse than exiting at 400 feet.

I dunno. After I did the stoopid thing and stepped off out the door, I'd have about 600 ft to come to my senses and try to fix the stoopid.

Exiting at 400 is way safer because you are starting with a speed of 0 so you would still have time for a delay. If you exited at 1000 speed up to terminal then deployed at 400 ft you are leaving absolutely no margin for error because you are only a couple seconds awayfrom impact

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[ozzy13 0]

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Exiting at 1000 feet and deploying at 400 feet is far worse than exiting at 400 feet.

I dunno. After I did the stoopid thing and stepped off out the door, I'd have about 600 ft to come to my senses and try to fix the stoopid.

Exiting at 400 is way safer because you are starting with a speed of 0 so you would still have time for a delay. If you exited at 1000 speed up to terminal then deployed at 400 ft you are leaving absolutely no margin for error because you are only a couple seconds awayfrom impact

I just think that's retarded. If you get out of the plane at a 1000ft you will have around 10 seconds before impact. Getting out at 400ft it would be less then 5 seconds. Please explain again how you will have more time from 400ft. and how it would be more safer? It takes around 1000ft to become terminal so the opening would not be a terminal opening from 1000ft. Wing suites would be a little longer but either way I think its all retarded. They should do a BASE demo if the want that kind of alt.
My 2 cents

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[jtnesbitt 0]

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Exiting at 1000 feet and deploying at 400 feet is far worse than exiting at 400 feet.

I dunno. After I did the stoopid thing and stepped off out the door, I'd have about 600 ft to come to my senses and try to fix the stoopid.

Exiting at 400 is way safer because you are starting with a speed of 0 so you would still have time for a delay. If you exited at 1000 speed up to terminal then deployed at 400 ft you are leaving absolutely no margin for error because you are only a couple seconds awayfrom impact

I just think that's retarded. If you get out of the plane at a 1000ft you will have around 10 seconds before impact. Getting out at 400ft it would be less then 5 seconds. Please explain again how you will have more time from 400ft. and how it would be more safer? It takes around 1000ft to become terminal so the opening would not be a terminal opening from 1000ft. Wing suites would be a little longer but either way I thinks its all retarded My 2 cents

Again, it's a matter of timing. We're comparing a hop and pop at 400 ft verses an exit at 1000 and popping at 400 ft correct? If you screw up your deployment at 400 ft after accelerating for the previous 600 ft the results could very well be disaterous. Even missing the pc or having a weak throw could very easily kill you. If you exit at 400 you don't have the speed and have time to react to the situation if need be.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[ozzy13 0]

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Exiting at 1000 feet and deploying at 400 feet is far worse than exiting at 400 feet.

I dunno. After I did the stoopid thing and stepped off out the door, I'd have about 600 ft to come to my senses and try to fix the stoopid.

Exiting at 400 is way safer because you are starting with a speed of 0 so you would still have time for a delay. If you exited at 1000 speed up to terminal then deployed at 400 ft you are leaving absolutely no margin for error because you are only a couple seconds awayfrom impact

I just think that's retarded. If you get out of the plane at a 1000ft you will have around 10 seconds before impact. Getting out at 400ft it would be less then 5 seconds. Please explain again how you will have more time from 400ft. and how it would be more safer? It takes around 1000ft to become terminal so the opening would not be a terminal opening from 1000ft. Wing suites would be a little longer but either way I thinks its all retarded My 2 cents

Again, it's a matter of timing. We're comparing a hop and pop at 400 ft verses an exit at 1000 and popping at 400 ft correct? If you screw up your deployment at 400 ft after accelerating for the previous 600 ft the results could very well be disaterous. Even missing the pc or having a weak throw could very easily kill you. If you exit at 400 you don't have the speed and have time to react to the situation if need be.

And missing your pc from 400ft with less then 3-4 seconds to impact cant be even more dangerous There are many variables of thing to go wrong at either alt. But to say getting out of a plane from 400ft is safer then 1000ft is crazy. Neither are safe but 400 no way!!

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[billvon 2,400]

> If you get out of the plane at a 1000ft you will have around 10 seconds
>before impact. Getting out at 400ft it would be less then 5 seconds. Please explain
>again how you will have more time from 400ft.

If you plan to get out at 1000 feet and deploy at 400, then you will have around 2 seconds from deployment to impact. That's time for your parachute to open, deal with any problems etc. If you plan to get out at 400 feet and deploy at 400 feet, you will have 5 seconds until impact. Again, that's time to deploy your parachute etc.

An additional issue is reefing. You can pack slider down and exit from a helicopter doing around 40kts and have an almost instant opening (i.e. no slider.) A 600-1000 foot freefall requires reefing (i.e. a slider) to slow the opening down. This results in a slower opening with more altitude lost.

As a test, I once jumped a BASE canopy/slider/PC (converted Pursuit, mesh slider, 42" PC) out of a King Air going as slowly as it could. I was open less than 30 feet below the plane. How did I get open so quickly? Because a) my vertical speed was zero when I exited, b) my canopy was set up to open quickly and c) my airspeed was around 60kts, which helped launch the PC and inflate the canopy quickly.

>They should do a BASE demo if the want that kind of alt.

I agree there.

[ozzy13 0]

I just think at either alt. its dangerous. They were not asking to get out at 400ft so I am not sure why that is even being talked about other then some thinking its safer. I also think they were going to do wing suite jump from between 1000ft-2000ft So if that was the case they would have more forward speed then anything else. I STILL think they should do a BASE demo if they want to do this kind of demo.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!