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Sangi

Trick with tandem

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Please get back to us with the results of the drogue-less head down when the drogue and/or the main explodes on deployment.

Are these the same folks providing your instruction in skydiving?:o



No need to go all the way to Lithuania for head down tandems...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB3usnuj4pA



Hmmm...Nanette Studebaker.

If that IS your real name.
SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

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So yeah I'm basically a self learner, watching all those FF movies and trying to replicate the stuff...


You might want to look into getting a new teacher, your current one is an idiot.



And some of you guys are dicks. Don't worry, I'm not just referring to you :D

I'm very much self taught, Come fly with me sometime and let me know if I do ok and have reasonable safety standards.

Good thing that in real life people would probably just answer the questions.

Carry on :)
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Why settle for a cheap imitation when you can have the original - I believe the attached is what you're referring to...



Yes! That's exactly what I've been looking for!

THANKS!




You've been looking for a bad Captain Morgan commercial? ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Great reply, I never thought about the manufacturer going out of business thing, good point.

:)



.....apparently you did NOT read all the replies to your original question....

I mentioned,,, a few DAYS ago that LIABILITY to the "manufacturers",,, was and IS a serious part of this.....
THOSE folks are the ones who WILL get sued,,, even though their gear is being used,
"in a manner inconsistant with it's design and intent."....
especially if the HERO stuntists, own little more than a rig or two and a trailer on a DZ...
here, we call it the "deep Pockets" syndrome..

So long story short... the gear manufacturers
are DESERVING of respect and consideration, when THEY stipulate, what can and can't be done with their gear...
Do you NOT get that point???
Not sure what things are like, where you are Sangi, nor whether you KNOW and realize the History of tandem...
Do you think ,,, ?? It just "always WAS??"
well it wasn't.....
.. could be you're watching too much fiction adventure movies,, where allll sorts of parachute related 'tricks' are done...
that's all well and good.... only NOT with tandem gear!!!!

get it?????

ok


jimmy

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I wonder what exactly makes the possibility of liability higher with tandem gear manufaturers compared to normal sport gear manufacturers ?

(not talking about student jumps here)



Good question, I was wondering the same...
"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

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Isn't Tandem still done, under An FAA waiver ,which has been the case since Ted Strong and Bill Booth,,,, first Pioneered the technique??
or



Thanks Jimmy for answering - so if I understand you correctly Tandem skydives in the US are technically NOT covered by the FAA in the same manner as sport skydives (paraphrased sport dives are legal but tandems would be illegal if the waiver was not in place)?

If so I can understand the level of apprehension that people have expressed about others doing stupid tandem stuff.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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exactly....
thanks nigel99 for your understanding..

For Sure. tandem Had been operated under a waiver,,, having to do with, i believe, "every jumper must have his or her OWN harness container, ( rig) system..with TSo reserve AND a Main" ( paraphrasing on my part)..since the introduction of this "training method"....

However I am Not sure......:|:S if that circumstance STILL exists.. or has recently changed.....in the last year or two....sorry..

Maybe those TMs who are active, and more up to speed on THIS,, than I am,,[:/] could chime in here.. thanks...:|

THAT folks,, IS the reason why it IS different than jumpers simply using conventional sport gear...when they undertake "unconvential aerial stunts"....

more power to those creative ones amongst us... but let's see a fair degree of common sense, and for sure... lets avoid the "Monkey see , Monkey Do" scenarios which such stunts give rise to.....
Safety.... It's not just a Dream,,, it's our JOB..B|


jt

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I don't see anything bad about it. As long as the tandem master doesn't deploy while the guy is on him or some malfunction doesn't happen at the canopy doesn't deploy itself - it's fine.

But that's just my thoughts, you know better...



If you think that trick is entertaining, you should see what I'd do on the ground for an encore if I were the TI who'd been stood on.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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I don't see anything bad about it. As long as the tandem master doesn't deploy while the guy is on him or some malfunction doesn't happen at the canopy doesn't deploy itself - it's fine.

But that's just my thoughts, you know better...



These bolded statements pretty much sums up why this is a REALLY bad idea, if you continue to rationalize things in this way you are a danger to yourself and others.:|

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

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I wonder what exactly makes the possibility of liability higher with tandem gear manufaturers compared to normal sport gear manufacturers ?

(not talking about student jumps here)



I think it's more complicated than that. Experienced jumpers doing stupid things with tandem rigs are probably unlikely to sue a manufacturer. Far less likely than real tandem students.

But tandem gear isn't designed for that kind of use/abuse. That raises the risk and therefore the likelihood of someone getting hurt and possibly causing a lawsuit. But this is still about why the manufacturers of tandem gear make so many rules, not why the rest of us should care to follow those rules.

One difference between tandem and sport manufacturers is the number of them. Sue Fliteline out of business and so what? Now you've gotta buy a Wings instead of a Reflex. But sue UPT out of the tandem business and you're left with only a couple options. Tandems are the reason we have turbine planes and the reason our dropzones can pay their electric bills. We might just need some of those manufacturers more than they need us.

Dave

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I don't see anything bad about it. As long as the tandem master doesn't deploy while the guy is on him or some malfunction doesn't happen at the canopy doesn't deploy itself - it's fine.

But that's just my thoughts, you know better...



These bolded statements pretty much sums up why this is a REALLY bad idea, if you continue to rationalize things in this way you are a danger to yourself and others.:|



Ok, devils advocate here....someone mentioned earlier that this discussion may have come about by seeing the same kinds of jumps made by experienced jumpers with their own rigs. We've all seen it and probably done it, I know I have. Hybrid dives with FF standing on one or two belly flyers rigs. Rodeo dives, etc. The exact same risks are involved in those jumps as are involved with a tandem rig with experienced jumpers and experienced passenger. The risk of permature deployment. So then why are hybrids/rodeo dives so accepted and no one bats an eye about the risk of prematures? Because we think solo rigs have better closing pin protection? Because the rigs are smaller and move around less? Because tandem rigs originally started out under the FAA waiver giving them the aura of added risk? Because the risk is acceptable on solo rigs but not on tandem rigs for whatever reason?

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I think it's more complicated than that. Experienced jumpers doing stupid things with tandem rigs are probably unlikely to sue a manufacturer. Far less likely than real tandem students.

But tandem gear isn't designed for that kind of use/abuse. That raises the risk and therefore the likelihood of someone getting hurt and possibly causing a lawsuit. But this is still about why the manufacturers of tandem gear make so many rules, not why the rest of us should care to follow those rules.



After tandem mfg´s have made it clear that this stunt is unapproved by them, how on earth could they ever be held liable for someone acting against their instructions ?

Its almost like you´d sue kawasaki after someone decides to try a wheelie @ 100mph speed and looses control..

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Isn't Tandem still done, under An FAA waiver ,which has been the case since Ted Strong and Bill Booth,,,, first Pioneered the technique??
or



Thanks Jimmy for answering - so if I understand you correctly Tandem skydives in the US are technically NOT covered by the FAA in the same manner as sport skydives (paraphrased sport dives are legal but tandems would be illegal if the waiver was not in place)?

If so I can understand the level of apprehension that people have expressed about others doing stupid tandem stuff.




I'm pretty sure that tandems are no longer done under a waiver since the last rewrite of the FARs but I'm too lazy to look it up for you.

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make it $25k and I'll consider it


Being outside the US legal system, I'm game for $5000, provided that I can select the participants and check the gear.
(I've done shit that was way more stupid for less money... ) :$:S:P:)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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After tandem mfg´s have made it clear that this stunt is unapproved by them, how on earth could they ever be held liable for someone acting against their instructions ?

Its almost like you´d sue kawasaki after someone decides to try a wheelie @ 100mph speed and looses control..



Here in the US, any lawyer can file a lawsuit for any reason. That suit has to be defended unless you want a default judgement. (kinda like forfeiting a ball game). Even with the multi-page liabilty waivers that are mandatory, suits still are filed, and sometimes the DZ/gear mfg loses.
People have sued motorcycle mfgs for what was clearly stupidity on the part of the operator. And won. Ever notice that there aren't any more 3-wheel ATVs anymore? Even though they are more capable and manuverable?
Part of living and doing business in the US.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Speed for one.
Entanglement for another.
Premature deployment taking out the "back stander"
Premature deployment at high speed causing gear failure - 2 people in tandem freefall without drouge fall at approx. 250 mph, adding the third would cause me to guess at near 300mph - would YOU like a canopy deployment at that speed????B|

Here, let me hold your pilot chute in one hand and stand on your rig while I hold on to it.

:S

There's a few folks here making me wonder about jumping WITH ANYONE!
I dunno 'bout you folks, but I'd really like to continue jumping for a looooong time.

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