Trick with tandem

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Than what IS he saying? Is he asking if I have ever seen another tandem rig besides a Sigma? ( a NOT Sigma? ) If so yes, I am rated on Strong, Vector, and Eclipse also.

Quote

Europien one?

I hope this guy can skydive better than he can write or spell.

Not everyone on these forums has English as their 1st language, being bigoted in your responses does you no service either.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

But it's no point arguing with these people on dropzone.com as I have noticed now, they're gonna defend their out of date opinion no matter what

Uh-hu. My out of date opinion has more than 5000 tandems jumps behind it, and more than 50 "rides" as a tandem passenger.

What experience have you got?

I understand the gear I jump aS well as the risks I assume for my student, the effects every action I take on a tandem can have, and the ramifications of what tandem jumps with students mean in this sport.

To the poster that thinks he's "new wave", and everyone else is a fuddy duddy, your forgetting who a tandem jump is for and what your true responsibility is on that jump.

And I have jumped all he canopies you mentioned.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bclark 0]

Yeah, I know. It was a pretty cheap shot...
I apologize for making fun of his grammar and spelling. But I stand by my other statements.

[tonyhays 86]

Quote

But it's no point arguing with these people on dropzone.com as I have noticed now, they're gonna defend their out of date opinion no matter what Wink

Apparently there is no point arguing with a 100 jump wonder know it all who refuses to listen to his peers in this sport.

Take a look at the jump numbers of the people who disagree with your opinion. Experience counts for something.

When you have even a little bit of it come back to us.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[skittles_of_SDC 0]

Well good. I don't wanna be a part of something like this. Just in case you couldn't tell from the attitude in my posts. So its agreed Skittles stays away from Squeek and Sangi and off the load anytime they have a tandem rig on.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Well good. I don't wanna be a part of something like this. Just in case you couldn't tell from the attitude in my posts. So its agreed Skittles stays away from Squeek and Sangi and off the load anytime they have a tandem rig on.

You wont ever see me with a tandem rig on (not as a tandem master). I have no desire at all to haul stupid wuffo fucks out of a plane strapped to my body

Skittles do me a favour mate. if you continue to skydive, come back and re-read this thread when you have a few more years in the sport, and you have seen and jumped with a lot more experienced people, you yourself will have a lot more skill too.

Come back in about 2 years and read all this again , and then see if you still would not participate with a bunch of EXPERIENCED jumpers in something like this or similar?

I'm not trying to be a smart arse, but i would like to see how you'd respond with more experience under your belt.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[niteko 0]

First of all, i never told you that i support idea "to grab drogue during free fall". This is complete different then Modern way of Tandem FLY (not just fall).

Anyway, in next 3-4 years there will be a loooooooot TI flying like this. In many many DZ.


For these, who my English language is one of "stupid point of skydiving"
please go to

http://www.atmonauti.com/ then to the human flight school / you want to fly?

There a little bit more info about new way of tandem fly, and all in perfect English. You will find some tandem video also.

[tonyhays 86]

What benefit does a first time jumper get out of atmonauti flying when the majority of the time they can't remember jack shit about the jump? I can't remember how many times i do a stable exit and the student insists they did a bunch of flips.

You are unnecessarily putting a student who has no idea of the added risk in more danger. Period.

Just because it is new doesn't mean its not a stupid fucking idea.

edited for grammar

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[niteko 0]

It's not about student only.
If you fly Tandem atmonauti, or tracking - this is a lot is easiest way. More easy for instructor.
And anyone who making first time skydive on the breafing will understand you more quick (about body position) how to track, than how to hold the body for classical tandem fly.
In tracking body position it's more easy to control you passenger, cause his body is straight, hands on the hips, legs straight and together. It is means that passenger have less control on TI. You will never go to spin. Of cause some time you can go "around", but it is better then go into spin.

And of cause, if you passenger hold this "tracking body position" - it a lot of easy ways to go out from uncontrolled rotations.


By all of this, Tandem tracking is more safe, then classical fall. When you never know where your's passenger legs is.

[skittles_of_SDC 0]

Assuming I still remember this thread exists, I'll do that.

[flipper 0]

''But it's no point arguing with these people on dropzone.com as I have noticed now, they're gonna defend their out of date opinion no matter what ''

.. Your right Sangi .... arguin' with people on the net is pointless ... so here's what I can offer ... next time you are at the DZ I will be more than happy to explain / discuss ( I can show you three different tandem systems that we use ) the reason why you might not want to dick about with tandems in the way thats being discussed here

Let me know when you are plannin on bein at the DZ

Flipper

[flipper 0]

Quote

By all of this, Tandem tracking is more safe, then classical fall......

Can you share the data you base this statement on ?

[normiss 619]

With a students hands blocking or interfering with the drogue?!?!?

[niteko 0]

Tracking simple more aerodynamic body position then classical one.
For person who making first time skydive its A LOT easiest to make tracking body position then classical one ( 90' on all hands, legs betveen body and hands, between legs, arch on the back, head up, do not fight with the wind, all simetrical etc...). So if yours passanger just make a little bit unsimetrical one part of the body - you will fill the tension. Believe me. In tracking - there no body parts on you passanger, who is put outside. No hands, no shaking legs.
Any one will understand you what you want from him from the very first beginning. And all other stuff - there no way to grab TI hands - cause they are arched and on the hips; all student body straight - less impact to TI; legs together - less shaking etc..
You just have to try.

[Sangi 0]

Quote

Let me know when you are plannin on bein at the DZ

Flipper

Which DZ are you at?

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[flipper 0]

Quote

Tracking simple more aerodynamic body position then classical one.
For person who making first time skydive its A LOT easiest to make tracking body position then classical one ( 90' on all hands, legs betveen body and hands, between legs, arc on the back, head up, do not ficght with the wind, all simetrical etc...) Believe me.

So when I leave the plane with the student do I have them in the tracking position then or do we leave in the normal position and then start to track ?

[flipper 0]

Quote

Quote

Let me know when you are plannin on bein at the DZ

Flipper

Which DZ are you at?

Strathallan

[Sangi 0]

Quote

Strathallan

Oh great
I'de be happy to see/listen to the explanation of the gear and what can happen during that stunt first hand
May I ask your real name, so I would know who to look for there?

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[flipper 0]

PM sent

[niteko 0]

You just make exit normal - crossed hands on chest. Jump out, stable, fill wind, drogue. And after that, when you will feel comfortable - just knock on the shoulder (you have to had briefing for this), and yours pasanger will stright on, legs strong and together, hands on sides - strong, head a little bit high, strong as well. You can control the way you flying by your hands. Anyway - if you fill not comfortable - you can allways use you hands as you do on every Tandem, all you body can by "classical", and this will be more easy with passanger who have "tracking body position".

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

It's not about student only.

It's a tandem, so yes it is ALL about the student. If you can't get that straight, you have no business doing tandems with the public.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[niteko 0]

Yes, of cause - do not use this when you have 100 - or 200 tandem jumps. Its like FF in "old days" - you have to be good enough to make some things...

[bclark 0]

Quote

It's not about student only.

From the videos I have seen, it is about tandem masters who are bored and want to turn a tandem into a fun jump. They want to have their friends out there tracking (or "atmonauting") around them. (Not saying there is anything wrong with qualified flyers around a tandem.) It is about an instructor who is tired of hanging from a drogue and wants to go freeflying with a student attached to them. If you are trying to teach the student anything, why would you teach them a tracking body position first? How hard is it to teach a student to arch? All this discussion about how stable the tracking body position is lost on me, because I have no problems with stability using conventional techniques. And what is the point, when you yourself admitted that the exit is conventional. Isn't this the time in the skydive that most tandems experience instability?

[michalm21 0]

Quote

Quote

It's not about student only.

From the videos I have seen, it is about tandem masters who are bored and want to turn a tandem into a fun jump.

Bingo
Tandem should be all about the student not the TM.

[bdazel 0]

I agree. Sounds like TM's who want to be able to freefly on tandem jumps and are desperately trying to justify it by saying that it is safer and more stable. I'm not convinced - not even close. Stability problems on tandems are a non-issue for me - I can fly myself and the student just fine, ESPECIALLY after exit (which is the time that niteko says he changes the student's body position). In my opinion, a TM who has stability issues while trying to fall straight down does not have skill enough to be in the air doing tandems with first time jumpers.


But I see another problem, what about the student's video? I hope that sample at autmonauti.com is not representative of the quality of freefall footage that a tandem student pays for. It is poor quality video from the student's perspective. It does nothing to further a prospective first-time jumper's interest in making a skydive.