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johnabarton

Altimeter limits/ Did I get ripped off?

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30,000 feet - $3,495.00

http://www.incredible-adventures.com/halo-jumping.html

Jump ticket is $350.00




whats up bro...

yeah ben and them guys are crazy as hell with that. who the hell is gonna give up $3,500 bucks to freeze their sack off for a tandem jump from 30k

you can make 20 tandem jumps from 14k for that price.

or better, yet you can do an entire AFF course. graduate be jumping on your own and buy a decent used rig and still have money to go to mac donalds for lunch...... :D
if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

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I agree that they would need oxygen and more than likely did not go to 18000 AGL but for me personally, I adjust my altimeter at 7000 AGL to to read 13000 AGL for my final alti shot. If I were to go to 18000 AGL it would read 12000 AGL as it rolls around again if the altimeter reads up to 12000 AGL
Also if the videographer is using two altimeters who is to say the one used for the video shot actually works at all (could be a broken on that they just dial to the needed alti shot)
Kirk
He's dead Jim

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It's called free market capitalism. The DZ markets it, consumers buy it, and everyone's happy. What's the problem with that. It may be the only jump some of these folks ever make, and some of those are more than willing to pay big dollars for all the extras.




I' well aware of how capitalism works bud.

I'm not hating on anybodys DZ, or trying to wreck anybodys hustle

all I'm getting at is that if you are paying those kind of prices for a free fall then you are one retarded, ripped off, sorry ass son of a bitch

and you as well as any other jumper knows where the fuck i'm coming from

the OP asked.. "did I get ripped off" if he payed $300 for a tandem, I say yes he got fucking ripped off bigtime. I'm surprised that he can even walk, his ass must still be chapped.

but if he agreed to that price for whatever reason and got what he paid for. I got no beef with that


fuck em if they don't know any better right???
does this not seem to be the concensus on this issue??
is this not the point you are trying to convey to me??
if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

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It's called free market capitalism. The DZ markets it, consumers buy it, and everyone's happy. What's the problem with that. It may be the only jump some of these folks ever make, and some of those are more than willing to pay big dollars for all the extras.




I' well aware of how capitalism works bud.

I'm not hating on anybodys DZ, or trying to wreck anybodys hustle

all I'm getting at is that if you are paying those kind of prices for a free fall then you are one retarded, ripped off, sorry ass son of a bitch

and you as well as any other jumper knows where the fuck i'm coming from

the OP asked.. "did I get ripped off" if he payed $300 for a tandem, I say yes he got fucking ripped off bigtime. I'm surprised that he can even walk, his ass must still be chapped.

but if he agreed to that price for whatever reason and got what he paid for. I got no beef with that


fuck em if they don't know any better right???
does this not seem to be the concensus on this issue??
is this not the point you are trying to convey to me??



Actually Bud, it sounds like you're "hating" on any DZ that markets such a product. Now on top of that, you refer to anyone who willingly pays a big price for that product a "retarded sorry ass son of a bitch". And no, I don't think other jumpers know where you are coming from. That's an assumption on your part.

Contrary to your reply, I am not trying to convey "fuck 'em, they don't know any better", nor do I think that is the "concensus on this issue".

If the "OP" got what was marketed to him and he paid for, he didn't get ripped off (which we still don't know). You may see extra freefall as having a value different than that of a well-healed, one-time jumper. I once taught (AFF) a multi-millionaire that wanted to jump the Twin Otter on weekdays when there weren't enough people on the DZ to justify flying it, so he would just pay for enough slots to make up the difference. He wanted the comfort, altitude, and climb time of the Otter and was willing to pay for it. Did he get ripped off?

There are always going to be people who jump at the chance, excuse the pun, to trash anything that doesn't fit their own norms. That seems to be the case here. Feel free to say what you want about high altitude, high price tandems, but if the demand is there at the asking price, there's nothing wrong with providing the product.

You want high priced freefall? Go jump Mt. Everest.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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all I'm getting at is that if you are paying those kind of prices for a free fall then you are one retarded, ripped off, sorry ass son of a bitch



You do realize that the price you pay for freefall represents a very narrow profit margin for the DZ, right?

Furthermore, do you also realize that the altitude you fly to is a cross between turn around time of the AC, and fuel burn, right?

Let's say you own a DZ, and want to make a few bucks, then you need to charge more than you do for fun jumpers. You see this all over the place with tandems and students paying more than you do.

Let's also say that you run a DZ, and want to fly to higher altitudes. Once you factor in slower climb rates at higher altitudes (which of course includes higher fuel burn and more time on the engines), along with the cost of operating an O2 system, you can see that you may need to charge more per 1000 ft above 13k than you do below.

Now let's say that you're a DZO, and you expect your TIs to spend more time sitting in the plane, and more time in freefall (and hopefully, time spent monitoring a student with onboard O2), you can see how you might have to kick them a few extra bucks.

How about the extra time the drouge spends being dragged through the sky? You realize those things have a limited life span, and are not cheap to replace, right?

So really, who's the retarded son of a bitch here?

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Kapowsin is at Shelton, WA, field elevation 273' MSL. I haven't done a high alt. tandem yet, but I understand it's with O2, the whole work, including video, T-shirts, etc.

Yes, it is marketing. Valinda and I don't drop $100 in a restaurant for dinner for 2, but some people think nothing of it. For some people, they want the special cachet of doing an "extreme" tandem, and they are more than willing to pay for it. At least the adjective fits our sport better than it fits all the other crap being marketed these days as "extreme", from candy bars to laundry detergents.:S I shop for bargains, and am fairly immune to Madison Avenue. But if the market for this stuff exists, it would be poor business not to cater to that lucrative niche.

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$300 bucks for a tandem is borderline a criminal act in my opinion



What about cessna DZs like mine (in Europe) where we charge 150EUR (~200$) for tandem from 10k feet? Are we criminals too?

:|


Before Wasilla in Alaska closed I believe they were close to $300 for a tandem.

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dave and chuck,

look fellas i'm completely aware of where the money comes from that keeps the planes in the air for us up jumpers to get our kicks in.

it's not my first rodeo, as I am out at the dropzone just about every weekend since I started jumping for the past 2 1/2 years. I have brought in many tandems to make a jump in that time.

common practice around here is you get a free jump or discounted jumps for bringing in tandems. I have never cashed in on any such discounts. I pay for my jump tickets as have all the tandems paid for their jump that I have brought in over the years

I've already stated that I have no problem with someone paying for a high altitude jump or any other jump for that matter. I completely understand why certain jumps that are more gear intensive, and place more wear on equipment and aircraft are marked up.


if someone I know wants to jump or get into jumping I bring them in for a tandem that way they can make their own opinion on whether they may want to continue jumping or not.

i'm not just gonna shove a card in their face for a $3500 tandem jump from 30k from a friend of mine who's link is in this thread.

if they had an option of a regular tandem to 14-15k or one to 18k for $100 more I would advise them to just go with the regular 14k-15k tandem and save the $100

to a tandem that has never jumped or will only jump once you can tell them they made a free fall from outer fucking space. regardless if they actually did or not, it's all the same. I've never seen the difference in the big smiles and I've seen tandems get out as low as 5k before and still be ecstatic about the experience.


of course if you market something somebody is gonna bite for any given reason, there's a sucker born every minute.


if either one of you guys brought in a friend acquaintance or whomever that was interested in jumping to do a tandem would you try to squeeze every last dollar out of them, or would you advise them to do a regular altitude jump????
if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

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>holy shit!!! $100 for an extra 6k of altitude . . .

During a bigway attempt (which goes to 16,500 AGL, not 18,000) jumps cost around $51 each, which also covers oxygen, extra time on the aircraft, organizers etc. For 3 people (TM, pax, video) that would be an additional $78 over the regular ticket price to a lower altitude. So it's not out of the ballpark.

In this case, it sounds like the jumper was merely taken to 12K though.

>but if some dumbass is willin to pay that then...

160 or so dumbasses are willing to pay that here in California.

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it's not my first rodeo, as I am out at the dropzone just about every weekend since I started jumping for the past 2 1/2 years. I have brought in many tandems to make a jump in that time.



163 jumps over 2.5 years in the south (Zimbabwe or Louisiana regardless) while at the DZ almost every weekend ? What do you do there, dispense advise like you do on the forums ? Cuz it does not seem that you jump much while at the dz.

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Tandems in my area are $285CAD in a Cessna to 10k. Knowing the DZO's I know they're not reeling in any huge amount of profit or paying themselves. Would be interesting to know if the OP actually did get the altitude he paid for though.

-Michael

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LMAO!!! boy I knew that one was coming

exactly what in the fuck do my jump numbers have anything to do with anything in this debate??

if you must know though to be perfectly honest I am not sure how many jumps I have, don't really give a fuck either. I have 220 or so in my log book and around 50 or so on my protrack that i haven't transfered, and who knows, who really cares how many I just didn't log because I just don't give a flying fuck about logging jumps sometimes when i'm jumping all day long.

I sincerely apologize that I did not update my jump numbers in my profile here, so that I could tell some one they got ripped off

guess you gotta have upwards of what do you think, 730 jumps to tell someone they got hit with the super high .."EXTREME" tax. or better yet the "SUCKER PUNCH" tax for 20 extra seconds of freefall

I havent updated my numbers because I was unsure, and I didnt wan't to put up an estimate that was inaccurate like 95% of people on here

but please let me know how many numbers I need so I can change my profile to reflect. this way I can also have an opinion as a fake ass jumper
if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

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I was merely pointing out how there are discrepancies in what you are saying and how you keep giving advice to people. It was not a jab at your experience. You opened yourself up to that little bit of logic reasoning flaw with stating how often you are at a DZ. If you read that again, your experience as a skydiver was never questioned, because, as you state yourself it has no relevance on your opinion as a person.

there.

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Kapowsin is at Shelton, WA, field elevation 273' MSL. I haven't done a high alt. tandem yet, but I understand it's with O2, the whole work, including video, T-shirts, etc.



Yes there is O2 on Kapowsin "Ultimate" Tandem. When I have taken a passanger it was a noticeably longer freefall I have to say, and I do admit it was fun..

I don't think the price is really too much out of whack given the extra climb time to altitude, the O2 and the extras it brings. As I figure it your paying about an extra $100 over the standard $215 tandem cost with out the other stuff, i.e. video, T-shirt, Logbook (I think the last Ultimate tandem I did they got lunch at the Cafe as well). Add all it up and you are about $350. As for the Extra $100, I don't exactly remember but I think I, as the TI, got a little more pay and the rest covers the extra time to 18K from the standard 13K exit and then add in the O2 costs. Why should the DZ not get a little more for this jump..

Saying someone got ripped is a stretch I think. If you exit at ~13K as a tandem most tandems are going to open at ~5K. Add the extra 5K of altitude to the already 8K fall and you are getting about 65% more freefall... Also someone can possible see extra value in the fact that it is unique and if your going to do it once and you have the money why not. Do you drive a BMW or a Corolla, you can find models that are similar but the cost difference is pronounced. That said, guess what, people are buying plenty of each based on what the value they see, want, and can afford.

Is the Ultimate tandem a bit more, yeah but as I noted above not really that much when you break it down. Given that an extra $100 to a lot of people would find that a small increase for the different then normal tandem. All of that said, if you advertise a 18K and charge for it but dont do it that is a completely different story and let the masses protest and "Storm the castle" over it...

just my 0.02

Scott C.
"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

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if either one of you guys brought in a friend acquaintance or whomever that was interested in jumping to do a tandem would you try to squeeze every last dollar out of them, or would you advise them to do a regular altitude jump????



I'd advise them to do what they want. Of course I always suggest video. That gets some more money out of the unsuspecting fools.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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my dz has problems getting height clearance because we are near a major airport. the other day nearly all of the tandems jumped at 8000 instead of the 14000 that was advertised and that they had paid for. i think this is a rip off. i actually told a waiting jumper what was happening and suggested they go and ask the manifest lady to let them know when they have clearance for the full height.

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right on chuck.

earlier when I wrote bud in my post responding to you. I did not intend to disrespect or insult you in any way, it just happens to be the way I talk and it typed out that way.

I apologize if you took offense to that, much respect dude
if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

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I was merely pointing out how there are discrepancies in what you are saying and how you keep giving advice to people. It was not a jab at your experience. You opened yourself up to that little bit of logic reasoning flaw with stating how often you are at a DZ. If you read that again, your experience as a skydiver was never questioned, because, as you state yourself it has no relevance on your opinion as a person.

there.



Sho tak my'agko? ;) Poimat ego i viebat ;)

Kak dela teska? ;)
Less Bitching / More Jumping..... Please?

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my dz has problems getting height clearance because we are near a major airport. the other day nearly all of the tandems jumped at 8000 instead of the 14000 that was advertised and that they had paid for. i think this is a rip off. i actually told a waiting jumper what was happening and suggested they go and ask the manifest lady to let them know when they have clearance for the full height.



If the DZ doesn't have a clearly stated written policy covering this situation, they should have one. This is especially true if this is something that happens on any regular basis

If such a policy is in place, the DZ should simply follow that policy. If not, they should do what is necessary to satisfy the customers in question, even if it means taking a loss or repeating the jump at DZ expense (this is assuming the customers complained). Addressing the situation beforehand is what really should happen to handle such a situation. The DZ could offer a discount for less altitude, or simply provide a raincheck.

If the DZ failed to tell the students that they weren't given full altitude, that too is wrong. If the DZ advertises a standard altitude for tandem jumps - or the length of the freefall in feet or time - they should deliver in good faith. What "good faith" is in this situation is what's up for debate.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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I havent updated my numbers because I was unsure, and I didnt wan't to put up an estimate that was inaccurate like 95% of people on here



So you're saying you prefer to leave your jump number inaccurate because you don't want it to be inaccurate?

:D:D:D

I couldn't resist, sorry.
Owned by Remi #?

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yeah exactly:D

you know what i meant, i didnt want to put up 300 jumps if i don't have 300 or whatever my logs are all messed up I've been keeping up though last 3 weekends though..I wanna be cool like you guys one day, maybe I'll just pay $3500 for a halo tandem and just be coolest there ever was instantly



:P

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

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