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sub1427

Jumping in random places from freinds aircraft???

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Whats the legality of jumping from a friends Cessna no where near a DZ? I'm gonna guess its not legal but man do I look cool flying onto the beach in front of tons of floozies. "Where'd you come from? Oh my God your so daring! Do me do me!" :P

On a more serious note if its unrestricted airspace aren't I just accountable for myself? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I kinda don't want to go to jail...yet.
Get High, Blue skies.

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A friend and I did this out of his company helicopter for a day. Up and down all day nowhere near a dropzone. I'm pretty sure it all depends on the classification of the airspace. You may have to file a NOTAM for it. Really though, it's completely possible to do legally.

If he's not a commercial pilot, than he can't charge you for it.
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There are many threads on the topic. Do a search for all the reading you care to do.

The short answer is, It is not illegal. You must contact Air Traffic Control prior to the jump and have the land owners permission where you intend to land. It is a good idea to file a NOTAM (Notice to Airmen). This is information that is given to pilots that will be flying in the area so they know you will be jumping. This will not keep air traffic from being in the area so be careful and spot good.The life you save might be your own.

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Read the "Balloon Jumps" thread started by Ryan_d_sucks. Its about 3 pages back. It turned into a discussion on filing NOTAMs.
AFAIK, as long as the airspace is legal, you file the notam and have permission from the land owner, there isn't anything illegal about it.

You are accountable for yourself, but have to let ATC and the rest of the people in the air know ahead of time.
You say "landing on the beach". Public or private? On the public beach, trying to convince the cops after you land?? That might be a different story.:P

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Read FAR part 105. It lays it all out. Notificaitons to the feds are based on airspace. Permission of the landing property owner, aircraft able to fly with the door off and your good to go.


EXCEPT, the insurance on most friends aircraft have kept them from being willing to it. Insurance not covering skydiving use.

And they are weinies and don't want me to open the door, even though I'll close it behind me.:P

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Read FAR part 105. It lays it all out.


ding ding. We have a winner!;)


He won't be a winner if he does this in New Jersey.

New Jersey has some of the strictest aviation rules of anywhere but California...so I've been told.

My point: FAR 105 isn't the only regs you may have to deal with. Of course, as someone mentioned up thread, making a "bandit jump" doesn't exactly follow the rules.
Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

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Read FAR part 105. It lays it all out.


ding ding. We have a winner!;)


He won't be a winner if he does this in New Jersey.

New Jersey has some of the strictest aviation rules of anywhere but California...so I've been told.

My point: FAR 105 isn't the only regs you may have to deal with. Of course, as someone mentioned up thread, making a "bandit jump" doesn't exactly follow the rules.


I'd be interested to know what states have requirements beyond the FAR's and what those requirements are. My understanding of FAR's is that they can't be superceeded by lower governments, but I don't know anything about piling on above and beyond the FAR's.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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and usually the aircraft has to be inspected and signed off as "jumpable".



Where did you find that?



Had a quick chat with my dad (40+ years/45,000+ hours career pilot) about maybe jumping out of his Maule M7. He was saying something about getting it inspected but I think what the last guy said about it only being neccasary when the door isn't made to come off is right. You can take the rear door and all but the PIC seat out of the M7 easily so it shouldn't be a problem.

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I'd be interested to know what states have requirements beyond the FAR's and what those requirements are. My understanding of FAR's is that they can't be superceeded by lower governments, but I don't know anything about piling on above and beyond the FAR's.



I can't make comment regarding any state but New Jersey so you'll have to do your own research for where you jump if you really want to know.

I can assure you that New Jersey regulates drop zone dimensions, layout, distances from structures, objects, location of water over a certain depth and width and many, many other issues. They even require drop zones to have "necessary mockups" of the plane being used.

If you have trouble getting to sleep at night, check these out instead of Ambien or six beers:
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/about/rules/pdf/chapter55.pdf

Aviation Activity License: http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/airwater/aviation/documents/DA-1042_001.pdf

Full chapter dealing with licensing of all aviation related activities...all 65 pages! This regulation covers all aviation activity not just jumping.
http://www.nj.gov/transportation/about/rules/pdf/chapter54.pdf

When I started my first DZ in New Jersey I had to get the FAA to change the landing pattern on two runways. What a pain in the ass!

It is not legal to jump anywhere in New Jersey without an "Aviation Activity License". See the second link above for that.
Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

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Read FAR part 105. It lays it all out.


ding ding. We have a winner!;)


He won't be a winner if he does this in New Jersey.

New Jersey has some of the strictest aviation rules of anywhere but California...so I've been told.

My point: FAR 105 isn't the only regs you may have to deal with. Of course, as someone mentioned up thread, making a "bandit jump" doesn't exactly follow the rules.


Damn. There goes my idea of just jumping out of the Skyvan (which comes over my house at 7,500' after jump run) and landing in the farmland behind my house. It surely beats trying to get home from the DZ on a Saturday night when every shoobie in PA is on their way to Atlantic City! Oh yeah, and no tolls!! :P

Seriously, it's a fun little fantasy of doing a bandit jump with my friends to my backyard (swoop my pool, anyone? HAHA), my Dad is a pilot ;), but....... it's just not worth it to me if there's legalities involved. :(
Always be kinder than you feel.

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We've been doing 'party' jumps since the invention of skydiving.B|

Most memorable I know about but wasn't on.... groom and some of the wedding party jumped into a back yard wedding in the days of PC's. On of the groomsmen made it. The groom was two miles away.

Other might have been a water jump into a party on a lake. Twin Beech load. Everybody in swimsuits and most with no shoes. Whole load missed the lake. Big lake:) Not me again.

My party jump? 'Sure the landing area is huge!' and haveing to dodge bushes and land between the rows of stretched wire trellis for grape vines.:o Another, three demo team members going to jump into a thank you party for the local air show. One slot left .... 'Hey you want to come along?' Landing area was between the rows of parked cars, on an 'island' with only a causeway to it from the shore in a local lake. Approach was over the water, past a an 80' tree into the landing area. Me, maybe 200 jumps with a StratoCloud. 'Am I going to make the shore, am I going to make the shore, am I going to make the shore.... am I going to miss the cars, am I going to miss the cars...... whewww made it'.

Don't do as we did.:|

Depending on the airspace do the FAA thing, have the property owners permission and have at it.

AC-105 list planes able to operate with the door removed. Take it off and go to it. If the weenie pilot will let you.

Be prepared and safe for off DZ landings (wind direction, obsticles, high corn etc) and be aware of other traffic.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Depending on the airspace do the FAA thing, have the property owners permission and have at it.



It isn't always that simple! I nearly lost my Commercial license and I did *everything* correctly and by the book.

Many years ago, maybe 1973, I was asked to fly a demo jump where the jumper, Pat Mulhern, was jumping into Veteran's Stadium in Philadelphia for the season opener with a ceremonial game ball. [For the current World Series Champion Phillies.]

I reviewed all the FAA paperwork submitted by the jumper; I spoke with the local GADO and I was satisfied that he did everything correctly.

A few weeks before the planned "real thing" we did a practice run and the jumper did a standup landing near 2nd base. There were only Phillies public relations people, and maybe a lawyer or two, around to watch and maybe a few dozen stadium employees. A flawless jump. We were concerned initially but quite satisfied with the way things went.

At the day of the real jump I was flying jumpers for the operation at Pelicanland in central Maryland. On my way north from Pelicanland I contacted Philly approach letting them know I was inbound to the airport for the stadium jump. The controllers--approach, tower and ground--all made good natured comments and jokes about what was going to happen. [The real jump was maybe the 2nd or 3rd demo jump in the nation into a stadium full of 45,000 people.]

I picked up the jumper at the General Aviation terminal and got clearance to taxi. On the way, airline pilots made jokes as we taxied out. The stadium was less than 2 miles from the airport and all approaches and departures were held while we did a WDI drop and again when I turned on jump run at about 8000.

The winds were much stronger than on trial jump. The stadium was shaped like a huge bowl with very high walls and lights around the full circumference. The wind interacting with stadium and lights created a very weird current with the flags around the stadium pretty much all indicating a totally different wind direction.

Because of the winds, Pat couldn't get a handle on his best approach and decided to do the prudent and safe thing: he landed in the parking lot without damage to cars or himself.

About two weeks after the jump I got a very scary official letter from the FAA saying they were contemplating taking legal action against me for a number of FAR violations with the most obvious being "jumping over an open air assembly of persons".

I wrote a four page letter of explanation--a much enhanced version of this post--and pointed out that FAA personnel were well aware of the jump from even before I landed to pick up the jumper. Essentially, I asked why was I given permission from the tower and approach if what I was doing was a violation. After essentially implicating FAA personnel in my flight and potentially embarassing the FAA with the facts of the jump I received a letter with two or three sentences saying, essentially, "...we are not going to pursue this issue."

My point: This was far from a "bandit jump". All the paperwork was in order; all the Ts were crossed and all the Is dotted and I still came very close to loss of my ticket. The saving grace, I found out months later, were comments from the controllers and the tower personnel that I had done everything correctly. And that Pat had NOT jumped over the stadium he was almost a mile away because of the very strong winds.

It isn't going to be YOUR ass on the line if you do something stupid like jumping nude into your girlfriend's back yard or into a local football game: It's going to be the pilot's license.

Learn FARs. Follow the BSRs.

And if you are determined to doing something really, really stupid tell the inspectors you were so drunk you can't remember the N-number on the plane and the pilot's name and face are a blur.
Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

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