Should basic first aid be a requirement for the A

[AggieDave 6]

No, absolutely not! I don't want some basic first aid A-licensed jumper trying to help me if I hook in. I want the response team at SD Houston helping me! Then again, not every DZ has the number of medical professionals (read doctors and nurses) on the DZ.

I know we can't all have that, so I would rather have nearly no help than someone over reacting with too basic of a skill set and no experience.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[keithbar 1]

As some people were saying above.. if you are trained to render medical aid (Firefighter, EMT, paramedic, first responder, doctor) yeah thats the ticket. cause them damn nurses are only good for emptying bed pans and making beds with those hospital corners so you can't get under the covers without breaking your toes..

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[virgin-burner 1]

there isnt really a response team at my dropzone, but we do have a couple of nurses and doctors, which is really good!

last year when someone hooked himself in, two docs and a nurse came running. guy broke his neck, if someone untrained would of gotten there, i doubt the guy would still be walking (and skydiving) again. he might even be dead!

i think its best to leave that to the people that know their shit. of course, if no-one is around.. if you want to get a drivers license here, you have to have medical training. but you only do it once, most around 18. i dont really know how much stays with the people, i'm not sure if i'd remember everything. sure how to stop bleeding, and from CPR, i heard its better you do something, than do nothing in the case someone has a heart-attack or the like..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[BaronVonBoll 0]

Years ago I was a member of a search and rescue team, SRT. I was an EMT for the rock rescue squad. I dont know how many times things got worse than they could have been because someone who thought he knew what he was doin tried to "help". Just get the guy comfortable and covered in a blanket and wait for qualified help to get there!

[rickanderson 0]

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Myself and another instructor at Z-Hills had a discussion a few months ago about this and thought I would ask if others agreed. Should basic life saving / first aid skills be manditory as part of the A license? His reasoning was that if you land off or get injured you should be able to take care of yourself until help arrives.

no, not a requirement, but for safety day a CPR class would be really great

[billvon 2,383]

>I dont know how many times things got worse than they could have been
>because someone who thought he knew what he was doin tried to "help".

Yep. Which is why the most important part of first aid/first responder/CPR courses involves what NOT to do. Military guys are the worst; they are always trying to reduce shoulder locations, remove gear from possible spinal injuries without cutting it etc.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>I dont know how many times things got worse than they could have been
>because someone who thought he knew what he was doin tried to "help".

Yep. Which is why the most important part of first aid/first responder/CPR courses involves what NOT to do. Military guys are the worst; they are always trying to reduce shoulder locations, remove gear from possible spinal injuries without cutting it etc.

sometimes doing nothing isn't an option. If they're in battle, for example.

in the civilian world, laying in a traffic lane on the freeway may well be more hazardous.

Helmets on downed, unconscious motorcyclists is a real dilemma - you need to be sure they're breathing.

[rygon 0]

not all people are comfortable doing 1st aid..i know of at least 2 ppl who would faint at the sight of blood, why should they go through the course knowing full well they wouldnt be comfortable helping someone, just to get their A license. Having a course for ppl to attend if they wish would be the best bet.

[labrys 0]

I'm with Dave on this one and I also think that piling too many "mandatory" things in with the training is a bad idea... but... optional training for people who would like to know what they can do to help themselves if they're alone and injured would be cool.

Owned by Remi #?

[billvon 2,383]

>sometimes doing nothing isn't an option. If they're in battle, for
>example.

Exactly. What is appropriate on the battlefield is not appropriate on a DZ with help arriving in ten minutes, but many military folks do not make that distinction.

[labrys 0]

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Helmets on downed, unconscious motorcyclists is a real dilemma

It's not a dilemma if it's approached without panic. Is there a pulse?

Yes: Wait for EMS

No: CPR is a good idea. Helmet preventing CPR? Try to remove it carefully.

Leaving a helmet on someone without a pulse is pointless.

Owned by Remi #?

[billvon 2,383]

>Leaving a helmet on someone without a pulse is pointless.

As is leaving a helmet on someone who's not breathing.

The three things I look for in terms of immediate action are:

1) Breathing. If they're breathing, pretty good bet that they have a pulse and an airway.
2) Pulse if accessible. If not, and they're breathing, their heart is probably beating.
3) Bleeding. If they have an arterial bleed, that has to be stopped.

If they are good on those three things, then I figure that they don't need to be moved right away, provided they aren't in imminent danger from something else (burning wreck, for example.)

(Disclaimer - I am neither a doctor nor did I stay at a Holiday Express last night.)

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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>Leaving a helmet on someone without a pulse is pointless.

As is leaving a helmet on someone who's not breathing.

The three things I look for in terms of immediate action are:

1) Breathing. If they're breathing, pretty good bet that they have a pulse and an airway.
2) Pulse if accessible. If not, and they're breathing, their heart is probably beating.
3) Bleeding. If they have an arterial bleed, that has to be stopped.

If they are good on those three things, then I figure that they don't need to be moved right away, provided they aren't in imminent danger from something else (burning wreck, for example.)

(Disclaimer - I am neither a doctor nor did I stay at a Holiday Express last night.)

Nor am I a doctor, but that agrees completely with what I was taught.

With rare exception, for an accident at the DZ the only thing my basic training would allow me to do would be to keep the victim still, and get vital signs for the EMTs when they arrive. Making sure they are breathing, keeping them still and as calm as possible, keeping others away (unless they have real training) and wait for the EMTs.

But as you said, basic first aid teaches you what not to do as much as what to do.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[labrys 0]

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>Leaving a helmet on someone without a pulse is pointless.

As is leaving a helmet on someone who's not breathing.

I agree and perhaps I wasn't clear about my thought process. It might not be all that easy to tell if someone in, let's say, a full face helmet is breathing and it would be a bad idea to take the helmet off to check.... so look for a pulse. If they have one, leave 'em as is. If they don't then do what it takes.

Owned by Remi #?

[grimmie 173]

The best thing to help an injured jumper is a DZ that has an efficient EMS plan in place. Working with the local EMS provider is a must to ensure smooth operations during an accident. The more the DZ trains the local responders and the more the local responders train the DZ, the better it is for the jumpers. A quick response =quick transport=better chance of survival and recovery.

The second best thing to help out an injured jumper is a good first aid kit and some well trained people at the DZ.

The third best thing is for the people that don't know anything about first aid to follow the instructions of the folks that know what to do. Many untrained jumpers have been a great asset by following instructions and helping out CALMLY. Don't run out to "help" if a bone striking out of a jumpsuit will make you panic.

"A license" jumpers have enough to worry about...

[Tuna-Salad 0]

After reading some of the posts I can agree that it could / should be offered but not made a requirement. There were a lot of variables presented in this discussion that I did not consider. One in particular got my attention because I have experienced it.

Maybe 6 months ago (I'm bad with dates) a woman fractured her femur on landing at the DZ.. I did not see her impact but overheard that her canopy collapsed some 40 feet from the ground.
Anyway, when I got to her there were maybe 5 people all trying to play doctor. The position she was in was very uncomfortable by looking at it but did not want to move her. Some of the people there kept insisting to remove her helmet and rig.. I objected many times but they did anyway. At that point I stood up and said "Fine, I am no longer responsible here" and walked away. I can think of atleast one person who said they were a paramedic but that was total bs. When EMS arrived all I did was tell them what drugs she was allergic to, what had been done before they got there and the location of the fracture.
Either way the point is.. I had forgotten about that when making the original post and it is indeed a bad thing to have people who think they know what they are doing but do not no matter how good the intentions were.

Someone also said something earlier about checking vitals and the order. Just remember ABC
Airway
Breathing
Circulation

This is weird but I am not sure if I'm good luck or bad.
So far I have seen a head on accident in front of my house, seen someone get ejected from their car, seen people injured at dz, someones car on fire.. etc
Not sure if it's a good thing I was there to help or if I'm just a magnet for catastrophe
Most who knows me see it as a sign that I was meant to be a fire fighter / medic since it follows me around. Kinda strange though.

FFS didn't mean to write a damn novel here.

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[billvon 2,383]

> It might not be all that easy to tell if someone in, let's say, a full
>face helmet is breathing and it would be a bad idea to take the helmet
>off to check.... so look for a pulse.

You do have to make sure they are breathing if they're not responsive. If they have broken their neck and lost their airway, or lost control of their breathing, they may still have a pulse (for a short time, anyway.) That's one of the difficult issues with helmets - makes it harder to tell if they're breathing. If you can see their chest moving, that's much better than pulling their helmet off to see if they are moving air.

But if they're not breathing, it's better to be paralyzed and alive than have an intact spine and be dead. There are few things that won't wait for an ambulance, but a lost airway is one of them.

[Tuna-Salad 0]

If they are asking what happened and screaming in pain.. I'm pretty sure there are no problems with breathing.

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.